Game Thread: Week 15 Sunday night: Packers vs Seahawks “Must contain Jacob’s” Thread

[flyerhawk]

God Damn man, I want Schneider to make a move for a potential franchise QB. Why do you ask such ridiculous question when I have been pounding the table for doing just that for last few years? Staying pat and expecting a franchise QB to fall into the Seahawks lap is about the most unrealistic take someone could have and is why the Seahawks have been painted into a corner in regard to the QB situation.
By the way you poke at our division opponents bold move to find a franchise QB but notice both the 49ers and Rams been to the Super Bowl? Guess we can take solace that the Seahawks been better then the Cards.

We all want Schneider to get a franchise QB. I'm asking you what you think that Schneider SHOULD HAVE done in the past 2 offseasons. We have hindsight to help you. This shouldn't be complicated to do given you have been so determined that we make some huge move. Surely you thought of something we could have done?

I want the Seahawks to have a better QB. I also want the team to have a better defense and a better offensive line. I don't think giving up numerous draft picks to move up to draft a QB is good idea when you have so many holes. The game is one on the lines. We had 2 bad ones last year. This year we significantly improved one line but the other is still bottom of the league bad.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

We all want Schneider to get a franchise QB. I'm asking you what you think that Schneider SHOULD HAVE done in the past 2 offseasons. We have hindsight to help you. This shouldn't be complicated to do given you have been so determined that we make some huge move. Surely you thought of something we could have done?

I want the Seahawks to have a better QB. I also want the team to have a better defense and a better offensive line. I don't think giving up numerous draft picks to move up to draft a QB is good idea when you have so many holes. The game is one on the lines. We had 2 bad ones last year. This year we significantly improved one line but the other is still bottom of the league bad.

You asked me that before and I've answered it. Yet you just go ahead and ask it again, not going to keep playing that game with you. Filling out the holes was the given reason for not addressing the QB position the last few years, yet here we are years later saying we got to fill the holes before we risk draft capitol on a move up for a QB. You ever hear the saying doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results is crazy? What you want is for a franchise QB to some how drop clear down to where the Seahawks draft or better yet find one in the third round like they did with RW. That was like hitting on the mega million ticket and expecting you can repeat it.

 

[flyerhawk]

You asked me that before and I've answered it. Yet you just go ahead and ask it again, not going to keep playing that game with you. Filling out the holes was the given reason for not addressing the QB position the last few years, yet here we are years later saying we got to fill the holes before we risk draft capitol on a move up for a QB. You ever hear the saying doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results is crazy? What you want is for a franchise QB to some how drop clear down to where the Seahawks draft or better yet find one in the third round like they did with RW. That was like hitting on the mega million ticket and expecting you can repeat it.

I don't get what is so confusing here. I want a clear plan.

2 years ago I thought the cost of moving up wasn't worth it. So far, of the 4 QBs drafted in the 1st round, only one of them looks like they could be a very good QB. To get him we would have needed to beat the Texans trade offer of No. 13, No. 33, a 2024 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick. We had the 5th pick in the draft and the 20th pick. We could have maybe traded those picks to get Stroud plus some other picks. Is that what you wanted?

Last year we had to move up into the top 10 to hope to get one of the top QB. Getting into the top 3 was likely not an option. So then we could have traded up but it would cost us AT LEAST #16, next year's 1st and some other stuff.

I am fully aware of how much more difficult it is to find a top flight QB in the later rounds. But what is the point of drafting a top flight QB if your roster sucks?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Well flyer, with the hindsight in mind (but not really) I wanted Stroud... I said that on the forum numerous times before the draft and mocked (made fun of) anyone considering Young #1 overall. So I would've been fine trading the #5 and #20 for Stroud and an additional 3rd rounder or something. I know that means no JSN, but that draft was loaded with WRs anyway, and so is this one (where a lot of other stuff is weak). So that would've been my choice.

I am 100% on record here saying I hated the Witherspoon pick. I remember blowing my shit here on this forum April 23'.

Would Stroud have done anything behind our terrible OL? I dunno. I mean Houston's OL sucks ass as well, so who knows. Maybe with a franchise QB you've invested so much in Schneider would've been FORCED (for the sake of his job) to actually improve the OL, lol.

For this draft... I wasn't expecting the massive pull on QBs. Atlanta taking Penix at #8 blew my mind... I would've been fine taking him at #16 and letting him sit, but Atlanta went all out.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well in hindsight I wanted Stroud... so I would've been fine trading the #5 and #20 for Stroud and an additional 3rd rounder or something. I know that means no JSN, but that draft was loaded with WRs anyway, and so is this one. So that would've been my choice.

I am 100% on record here saying I hated the Witherspoon pick. I remember blowing my shit here on this forum last April.

No Spoon. No JSN. Perhaps no Derrick Hall or Charbs.

With hindsight I would probably be ok as well. But we also have to understand that the trade would have weakened our team.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

No Spoon. No JSN. Perhaps no Derrick Hall or Charbs.

With hindsight I would probably be ok as well. But we also have to understand that the trade would have weakened our team.

Eh you may have to throw in a little kicker, but certainly not another 2nd rounder (#5 and #20 is basically at the #2 value - based on old charts)... at least in that 2023 draft. No Spoon/No JSN... for sure, but the freed up cap that Geno takes and then you're FORCED to address the OL because of the major investment of a #2 overall QB. I dunno if that would weaken our team. It certainly would've changed the strategy which I think in part folks like Harold and frustrated Seahawks fans dealing with a 9-10 win team year in and out only to get annihilated if they do make the playoffs, are looking for.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

But what is the point of drafting a top flight QB if your roster sucks?

How long are careers of top flight QBs? A decade? Longer? There is time to build a roster around a QB. In fact building the roster first means never having the draft position to actually draft a top flight QB. Rams and 49ers have made moves to secure a QB and some how build their roster. Having a franchise QB gives fans hope despite the roster being shaky. The Washington team is not any better then the Seahawks but because of Jayden Daniels their fans are ecstatic while the Seahawks fans fell doom and gloom. I just want to feel there is hope, hope that a top flight QB prospect would provide. What I don't want is a aging fading mediocre QB and a practice squad type as backup and no hope that changes any time soon, like the situation is right now.

 

[flyerhawk]

Eh you may have to throw in a little kicker, but certainly not another 2nd rounder (#5 and #20 is basically at the #2 value - based on old charts)... at least in that 2023 draft. No Spoon/No JSN... for sure, but the freed up cap that Geno takes and then you're FORCED to address the OL because of the major investment of a #2 overall QB. I dunno if that would weaken our team. It certainly would've changed the strategy which I think in part folks like Harold and frustrated Seahawks fans dealing with a 9-10 win team year in and out only to get annihilated if they do make the playoffs, are looking for.

I get that. But that's the best case scenario from that draft. From all reports, Pete LOVED Richardson. Had they taken him instead, we are in a pretty difficult position.

Ultimately the history of trading up to draft a QB is pretty bad. Sure, the Mahomes trade was a home run. Most of the others were pretty bad.

All 29 times that NFL teams traded up to draft a quarterback

From the bold moves that paid off -- like Patrick Mahomes -- to the many that didn't, here's a rundown of each QB trade-up from the common draft era.

www.espn.com

There are some hits. But most of them are either mediocre or straight up terrible moves.

 

[flyerhawk]

How long are careers of top flight QBs? A decade? Longer? There is time to build a roster around a QB. In fact building the roster first means never having the draft position to actually draft a top flight QB. Rams and 49ers have made moves to secure a QB and some how build their roster. Having a franchise QB gives fans hope despite the roster being shaky. The Washington team is not any better then the Seahawks but because of Jayden Daniels their fans are ecstatic while the Seahawks fans fell doom and gloom. I just want to feel there is hope, hope that a top flight QB prospect would provide. What I don't want is a aging fading mediocre QB and a practice squad type as backup and no hope that changes any time soon, like the situation is right now.

The problem is that the team is never terrible. So they never have those high draft picks. Let me tell you, living in the New York metro area, being perennially terrible is miserable for the fans. NONE of them wanted them to be fighting for a Number 1 pick AGAIN!

I was all for drafting a QB. I was simply against giving up the farm to trade up. Historically speaking, it's a bad move.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I get that. But that's the best case scenario from that draft. From all reports, Pete LOVED Richardson. Had they taken him instead, we are in a pretty difficult position.

Ultimately the history of trading up to draft a QB is pretty bad. Sure, the Mahomes trade was a home run. Most of the others were pretty bad.

All 29 times that NFL teams traded up to draft a quarterback

From the bold moves that paid off -- like Patrick Mahomes -- to the many that didn't, here's a rundown of each QB trade-up from the common draft era.

www.espn.com

There are some hits. But most of them are either mediocre or straight up terrible moves.

Well you asked Harold: "We all want Schneider to get a franchise QB. I'm asking you what you think that Schneider SHOULD HAVE done in the past 2 offseasons. We have hindsight to help you."

So I'm using the same conditions you offered him. I wanted Stroud... Harold did too (I specifically remember). I also recall I did NOT want Richardson or Young (sure I would've probably *heh clapped* and hoped it would pan out cause new QB).

I mean if Houston wanted Stroud then I guess we would've had to go number 1 overall... which would've prob. cost 5th/20th, 2024 1st (so no Byron) and that's prob. it. #9 and #61 is not #5 and #20... not even close.

So yah, no JSN, no Murphy, no Witherspoon, but you get Stroud. And then instead of drafting Zach you prob. take OL, instead of trading for Big Cat, you go OL, and then you prob. don't even hire Mac, you make a huge push to get Johnson or Harbaugh since Harbaugh knows you're going to be investing HEAVILY in the OL (which is what he wants).

Everything would shift... and then you don't need Grubb because 'whoever' can fill in. And you go find a DC who can try their best to work with the shit show that would've been, lol.

Now, would that be better than what we have now? We've invested heavily in WR, secondary, RB, and to an extent DL... or do we have a ton of investment into the OL, QB, WR, and an offensive coach in an offensive league?

I'll be honest, I wanted us offensively focused. It's just where the league is these days. The rules all favor offenses, the NFL wants high scoring because of ratings/merch, etc. And it seems defenses can be built around 1-2 star players and that's that.


So there. You asked Harold what he would've done. That's what I would've done (with hindsight to help me per your rules). Now if you want to argue back and forth on this, I really am kind of whatever lol.

 

[JMR]

I think we are in a pretty tough spot. We are too good to be in a position to have a shot at a franchise QB in the draft (setting aside whatever the upcoming draft class offers in that regard), and we are also not good enough to win a SB until we upgrade at QB. On top of that, we have a major weakness at OL that could be a single point of failure even if we had a top 3 QB on the roster right now. We also lack a stud pass rusher that seemingly all the contenders usually have. I wish I had the solutions.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well you asked Harold: "We all want Schneider to get a franchise QB. I'm asking you what you think that Schneider SHOULD HAVE done in the past 2 offseasons. We have hindsight to help you."

So I'm using the same conditions you offered him. I wanted Stroud... Harold did too (I specifically remember). I also recall I did NOT want Richardson or Young (sure I would've probably *heh clapped* and hoped it would pan out cause new QB).

I mean if Houston wanted Stroud then I guess we would've had to go number 1 overall... which would've prob. cost 5th/20th, 2024 1st (so no Byron) and that's prob. it. #9 and #61 is not #5 and #20... not even close.

So yah, no JSN, no Murphy, no Witherspoon, but you get Stroud. And then instead of drafting Zach you prob. take OL, instead of trading for Big Cat, you go OL, and then you prob. don't even hire Mac, you make a huge push to get Johnson or Harbaugh since Harbaugh knows you're going to be investing HEAVILY in the OL (which is what he wants).

Everything would shift... and then you don't need Grubb because 'whoever' can fill in. And you go find a DC who can try their best to work with the shit show that would've been, lol.

Now, would that be better than what we have now? We've invested heavily in WR, secondary, RB, and to an extent DL... or do we have a ton of investment into the OL, QB, WR, and an offensive coach in an offensive league?

I'll be honest, I wanted us offensively focused. It's just where the league is these days. The rules all favor offenses, the NFL wants high scoring because of ratings/merch, etc. And it seems defenses can be built around 1-2 star players and that's that.


So there. You asked Harold what he would've done. That's what I would've done (with hindsight to help me per your rules). Now if you want to argue back and forth on this, I really am kind of whatever lol.

To be clear, when we traded Russ I wanted us to move on from Pete and maybe JS and start over. But we didn't do that.

I think it's a big reach that Harbaugh would have come here if we drafted a young QB.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

To be clear, when we traded Russ I wanted us to move on from Pete and maybe JS and start over. But we didn't do that.

I think it's a big reach that Harbaugh would have come here if we drafted a young QB.

I think a lot of people were saying clean house. I was a bit indifferent but I was fine firing JS too, I was just wondering who was available to be the new GM.

I agree it's a BIG reach Harbaugh would've come here (LA was just way too attractive. He went to HS in Cali, lived in Cali with the 9ers, they have a YOUNG AP QB, had a top 5 draft pick in a draft with loaded OT talent, and a far better cap situation than Seattle).

Regardless, I'm just throwing out a name... Had we gotten Stroud (in my scenario) and bolstered the OL there's a strong likelihood we would've gone for an offensive minded head coach is all I'm saying.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think a lot of people were saying clean house. I was a bit indifferent but I was fine firing JS too, I was just wondering who was available to be the new GM.

I agree it's a BIG reach Harbaugh would've come here (LA was just way too attractive. He went to HS in Cali, lived in Cali with the 9ers, they have a YOUNG AP QB, had a top 5 draft pick in a draft with loaded OT talent, and a far better cap situation than Seattle).

Regardless, I'm just throwing out a name... Had we gotten Stroud (in my scenario) and bolstered the OL there's a strong likelihood we would've gone for an offensive minded head coach is all I'm saying.

Sure. It's possible. But let's not forget that our defense was an absolute dumpster fire the past 2 seasons. Putting a young QB into a situation where they are always in a gunfight isn't probably great.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Sure. It's possible. But let's not forget that our defense was an absolute dumpster fire the past 2 seasons. Putting a young QB into a situation where they are always in a gunfight isn't probably great.

I mean, it wasn't any better last night either lol.

 

[flyerhawk]

I mean, it wasn't any better last night either lol.

If I were to lay blame for the loss last night I would say that our OL gets the most blame. I think the defense was shaky to start but stabilized in the late 2nd quarter.

But the OL simply couldn't get out of its own way. Stupid penalties and completely whiffed blocks.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

If I were to lay blame for the loss last night I would say that our OL gets the most blame. I think the defense was shaky to start but stabilized in the late 2nd quarter.

But the OL simply couldn't get out of its own way. Stupid penalties and completely whiffed blocks.

Yah agreed, although the defense kind of collapsed early as well. Woolen yeesh. I dunno, outside of Charbs/JSN, I'll throw Cross in there... uh... I'm really struggling to find many other guys that played well. Knight did pretty good. Jones had the FF but then got owned by a total bitch on the play where he ran up and then held up and I think Jacobs or whatever blew past him for another 15 yards lol.

Pretty shit all around. But yah the OL was a disaster. The offense only had 2 penalties that were accepted (2 holding), but then 3 HUGE penalties by the defense (2 by Woolen, 1 by Joby)...

Yah, just an all around disaster of a game.

So I know your whole point is, "Why draft a QB if we can't protect him?" Well usually drafting and investing in a QB means that you bolster the OL. So maybe that's the accelerant we need lol.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Very possible

And he is

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

You think if we had Mahomes we would be 13-1 or 12-2? Seriously?

I'm do not agree with you. I do think we probably win a couple more games. But the defense is the defense and the OL is the OL.

Seattle would be a 11 or 12 win team with Patty. Besides Kelce, he hasn't had a solid WR since Ty Hill. Since Hill left he's won 2 SB's. He's also had a revolving door of RBs due to injuries. He's made Andy Reid look like a top 5 coach when reality is he isn't. Give Pat our weapons it's not that far fetched to say Seattle could be a 11 game winner right now.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

No Spoon. No JSN. Perhaps no Derrick Hall or Charbs.

With hindsight I would probably be ok as well. But we also have to understand that the trade would have weakened our team.

Stoud over all of them. The draft doesn't end after the first round. If the FO does its homework they could find players close to each one you mentioned. I was all about moving up the board for Stroud, unfortunately Seahawks FO did not.