Game Thread: Week 15 Sunday night: Packers vs Seahawks “Must contain Jacob’s” Thread

[flyerhawk]

The thing about QB’s is it’s not a perfect science, look at the 49rs for God sake, they draft a QB number 1 overall and he doesn’t pan out, and now Mr irrelevant has the position looking decent for them for the foreseeable future … My point is QB’s are a crapshoot, some rise at the next level and some don’t.. So even if this next draft class doesn’t look great, there might be a diamond in the rough to be found … We gotta try to upgrade the position, it’s a must …

Also, QBs are a reflection of the quality of the offense in large measure. You put Mahomes on a team with no OL and no running game and he will struggle. He would still be good, of course, but not otherworldly.

Fans focus too much on the QB because they think that a QB can turn a team around all on their own. They can't. QB is the most important position on the field but ultimately they are only about 25% responsible for the success of a football team.

 

[JMR]

Another predictably tough game to watch last night, and we should all be used to that by now. On the morning after, here's what's still sticking with me:

• Well, if you wanted to see what it might look like with Howell out there, I guess you got a glimpse of it last night. And it was ugly. However, I also don't think getting thrust in the game cold like that due to injury is the situation you need to get a good evaluation. Hopefully Geno is ok, but a full week of prep as QB1 would probably help Howell.
• Brutal night for the OL, especially the right side. I've never seen Abe Lucas get shoved around like that. GB's front had their way with our blockers, but Charbs still had a decent game and picked up yards here and there.
• Woolen was a huge liability. How does that guy let people get behind him? He just doesn't fit what we are trying to become on defense.
• For the D on the whole, it was a really bad 1st half. Jacobs was doing whatever he wanted, and Love was hitting everything. They did figure it out pretty well in the 2nd half, but the damage had been done by that point.
• I bet Mike Macdonald regrets not going for it on 4th & 5 from around the 40 yard line in the 4th qtr. I think there was around 9 minutes left if I recall correctly? You at least get up there and line up like you're going for it (as GB did a few times throughout the night), and just take the delay of game penalty if nothing else.
• It's morale killing to be this bad at home. 3-5 on the season now with a good shot to be 3-6 with Minnesota coming in next. 5-1 on the road. Maybe we should lobby the NFL to replace Jacksonville as the London team.

I actually had some hope when it was 23-13 and we had just stopped them after finally getting a TD, but the offense was just too inept with Howell in there. The season isn't over, but we're on the verge. We can't win the division without taking these final 3 unless the Rams really stumble, and we're on the outside looking in for a wildcard.

 

[Screamin12th]

What were these great options the Hawks had the past 2 years?

Never said great but stretch it more. Harold agreed with me ask him if you are so dense. LMAO we ALL know who the options were and you said they all were worse than Geno. Yeah sure. None of them have lead the NFL in Redzone TO for the past 2 years. Geno is done and has been at the end for some time, we had a chance to get younger with raw BUT TEACHABLE talent and we passed up on it.

 

[flyerhawk]

Never said great but stretch it more. Harold agreed with me ask him if you are so dense. LMAO we ALL know who the options were and you said they all were worse than Geno. Yeah sure. None of them have lead the NFL in Redzone TO for the past 2 years. Geno is done and has been at the end for some time, we had a chance to get younger with raw BUT TEACHABLE talent and we passed up on it.

This is what I find so frustrating with the dumb Geno crowd. There is never any actual tangible plan. It's all hand wavy underpants gnome reasoning. Rather than simply answering the question you tell me to ask someone else their opinion.

Drew Lock is not a good QB. He's been on 3 teams already and about to go to his 4th. Sam Howell looks suspect, to say the least.

I guess we could have gone after Sam Darnold but that's pretty much pure hindsight as NO ONE was clamoring for him. Who else? Will Levis?

The truth is that there were no great options. Perhaps they could have sold the farm to trade up but that comes with costs as well, especially for a team trying to rebuild its core talent levels. I think the Hawks WERE trying to find another QB. But they simply didn't feel that they were going to be able to get someone that they thought would be worth the move.

This was the risk the team took when they traded Russ. Teams get in the QB carousel and it can take the decades to get off.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Also, QBs are a reflection of the quality of the offense in large measure. You put Mahomes on a team with no OL and no running game and he will struggle. He would still be good, of course, but not otherworldly.

Fans focus too much on the QB because they think that a QB can turn a team around all on their own. They can't. QB is the most important position on the field but ultimately they are only about 25% responsible for the success of a football team.

It’s a team game so of course you need other things in place, but right now if we had a top tier QB like Mahomes we’d have 4-5. more wins on the season … Human aspect also comes into play because having a guy like Mahomes makes people around him believe… Good leadership does that… Also in todays NFL with rules favoring QB’s I’d say that percentage is up, QB’s are almost untouchable, so dominate ones, dominate..

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

This is what I find so frustrating with the dumb Geno crowd. There is never any actual tangible plan. It's all hand wavy underpants gnome reasoning. Rather than simply answering the question you tell me to ask someone else their opinion.

Drew Lock is not a good QB. He's been on 3 teams already and about to go to his 4th. Sam Howell looks suspect, to say the least.

I guess we could have gone after Sam Darnold but that's pretty much pure hindsight as NO ONE was clamoring for him. Who else? Will Levis?

The truth is that there were no great options. Perhaps they could have sold the farm to trade up but that comes with costs as well, especially for a team trying to rebuild its core talent levels. I think the Hawks WERE trying to find another QB. But they simply didn't feel that they were going to be able to get someone that they thought would be worth the move.

This was the risk the team took when they traded Russ. Teams get in the QB carousel and it can take the decades to get off.

That’s the scary part, finding top tier QB’s can be a nightmare…

 

[flyerhawk]

It’s a team game so of course you need other things in place, but right now if we had a top tier QB like Mahomes we’d have 4-5. more wins on the season … Human aspect also comes into play because having a guy like Mahomes makes people around him believe… Good leadership does that… Also in todays NFL with rules favoring QB’s I’d say that percentage is up, QB’s are almost untouchable, so dominate ones, dominate..

You think if we had Mahomes we would be 13-1 or 12-2? Seriously?

I'm do not agree with you. I do think we probably win a couple more games. But the defense is the defense and the OL is the OL.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

You think if we had Mahomes we would be 13-1 or 12-2? Seriously?

I'm do not agree with you. I do think we probably win a couple more games. But the defense is the defense and the OL is the OL.

Yes I think we would be … I’d give us 4-5 more wins win Mahomes … That guy is next level talent that we don’t have, and he makes people around him believe, that’s the impact that good leadership and dominant QB’s can have… Mahomes is clutch as hell

 

[flyerhawk]

That’s the scary part, finding top tier QB’s can be a nightmare…

And chasing one is even worse. The Jets AND Giants are good cautionary tales. The Jets have used 2 top 5 picks on a QB. Neither of them is on the team anymore. They then gave up ton to bring in Rodgers to be mostly mediocre. The Giants used a top 6 pick on a QB and are now likely going to use a top 2 pick for another.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes I think we would be … I’d give us 4-5 more wins win Mahomes … That guy is next level talent that we don’t have, and he makes people around him believe, that’s the impact that good leadership and dominant QB’s can have… Mahomes is clutch as hell

He's an incredible QB. Maybe will be the GOAT when it is all said and done.

But he's not superman.

Joe Burrow is a top 3 QB. Yet his team is 6-8.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

You think if we had Mahomes we would be 13-1 or 12-2? Seriously?

I'm do not agree with you. I do think we probably win a couple more games. But the defense is the defense and the OL is the OL.

Another thing, look at all the close games KC has won this year because of Mahomes, he’s literally bailed them out of so many situations.. KC with an average or poor QB play could easily have 6-7 more losses right now, every game they play is close it seems like and Mahomes just takes over when needed… It’s ridiculous ..

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

He's an incredible QB. Maybe will be the GOAT when it is all said and done.

But he's not superman.

Joe Burrow is a top 3 QB. Yet his team is 6-8.

Yeah you gotta have some reasonable chemistry and talent around you, no question, it’s a team games after all .. If your defense is terrible that’s always gonna make things tough

 

[flyerhawk]

Another thing, look at all the close games KC has won this year because of Mahomes, he’s literally bailed them out of so many situations.. KC with an average or poor QB play could easily have 6-7 more losses right now, every game they play is close it seems like and Mahomes just takes over when needed… It’s ridiculous ..

Sure. It's been pretty remarkable. But the Chiefs defense has been pretty outstanding all year.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah you gotta have some reasonable chemistry and talent around you, no question, it’s a team games after all .. If your defense is terrible that’s always gonna make things tough

And you need your OL to be passably competent. If your QB is constantly under duress, he is going to struggle.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

My thoughts:

Quarterback:
Well, when I thought the season was lost I was saying, "If we continue losing start Howell to see what ya got." Well we saw what we got... and Jesus H it's bad. Bad throws, holds onto the ball way too long, no progression... At least he hands the ball off okay. I mean I know it's a backup QB being thrown into a game, but YEESH - that looked like a guy they picked up off the street or your WR has to come in to play QB because they all get injured. Whatever, least we can bury that. And it's not just that game, even in TC everyone was saying Howell looked good (like EVERYONE does - ugh) but that Geno was still WAY ahead of him, and it's obvious.

It didn't look like we were going to win last night anyway after GB just marched down the field like nobody's business 2 straight drives to open the game. That puts the offense in a tough spot and to some degree it changes the gameplan - given how good GBs rushing attack is. So I get Geno trying to force a jump ball in the endzone. I also think there was 50/50 that could've been DPI...

Some takeaways, Howell is not the answer. He already had a full offseason/TC with the offense, and didn't even resemble a mediocre QB last night, against a fairly weak Green Bay passrush.

OLine:
On the subject of 'fairly weak' Green Bay pass rush (I noted in this thread they have the fewest pressures, hurries, etc.) they sure as fuck abused our OL. Not one guy looked good. I could maybe argue Cross but he gave up a sack late, of course it was when Sam "I can't decide" Howell was in. It's the same ol week in and week out, the OL is trash. Olu getting hurt? What the fuck else is new? Someone above said if we had Mahomes we'd have 4-5 more wins. Bullshit... Geno is playing behind the worst OL in the league and it's not even close. Well maybe the Texans/Giants grade out worse than us. I get Abe is coming back, but man he looks rough. I wonder if he'll ever been the same after that massive knee injury. Maybe an offseason will help but I wouldn't be surprised in true Schneider fashion if he fully goes in with Lucas to be the starter and then Lucas is injured early next season. Ugh.

Don't get me started on Barner's 'blocking'. Drafted a guy to mostly help in the blocking game and he can't even chip a player after going in motion to allow Charb SOMETHING. Ugh.

Grubb:
I mean you're down 14-0... against a team who already runs the ball well and knows how to chew up clock, and their QB is hard to get too as is. So yah, I get the idea to try and get the game notched up. That said, I still don't understand why on 3rd and 2 for example (which I think we had twice), it's that fuckin' difficult to call up a play. Instead Grubb calls up a play where receivers are running 15 yards+ down the field. I get it's a surprise element, but get the fuckin' first down.

Defense/Woolen:
Woolen - at this point you're not resigning him, and with Burns coming back I think he just gets benched. That was quite possibly one of the worst performances I've seen by a DB in some time. Constantly getting beat, the PFoul on the opening drive was just a killer and unnecessary. Good job making a 15 yard play a 30 yard play. I think he thinks he's so fast he can recover if he let's a WR by him? Which is just stupid. And then he just looks like he doesn't want to be there. Like I wouldn't be shocked if he retires in the offseason and becomes a boat maker or something, lol (had a guy do that when he was gonna get demoted at work. He was like, "Nah I'm good - later!" And then moved to Florida and started building boats - he said it was always his true passion).

I'll be interested to see the missed tackles from that game, because it seemed like a LOT. Witherspoon gave up the TD but it was garbage time, whatever. The pass rush seemed non-existent but when you allow a 14-0 lead right out of the gates like it's nothing, and Green Bay (as I posted before this game started) has nearly the fewest sacks/pressures allowed in the league... well yah. WTF? If your offense can't respond, then you're boned.

Other:
5 penalties, for 108!!!! yards!? WTF!? Big DPI penalties on the DBs and then 2 O Holdings (shocker) and then Woolen's boneheaded PF.

It is baffling to me we are 3-5 at home, and 5-1 on the road. The hell? I guess majority of our good opponents (GB, Buff, LA) have all been home. We've basically won all our games against garbage opponents. The playoff caliber opponents at least as of now we've lost every game too, that says quite a bit.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Look at the teams in the division and see what they have done at QB. Cards traded for Carson Palmer, then drafted Rosen in the first, then used the #1 overall on Murray. The Rams traded up to draft Goff with the second over all pick, then traded for Stafford. 49ers traded for Garpoppolo, moved up in the first to draft Lance, then drafted Purdy. What have the Seahawks done over that time span? Well they went with RW back up then resigned the back up to a longer contract to start, oh yeah they traded away some draft capitol for a practice squad QB to back up the back up turn starter. In essence they have bent over backwards to do as little as possible at the position.
I'm convinced that JS is scared to make a major move for a QB. He doesn't trust his own evaluation of QBs and making a major move for a QB could cost him his job if it doesn't work out. His solution has been to avoid doing any thing major because it's a risk. In the meantime other teams in the division have done big moves to fill the QB position. Yeah they don't always work out, but then keep keep trying. I've been disgusted with JS do as little as possible approach to the QB position.
Unfortunately this year that approach is likely necessary, because JS has painted the Seahawks into a corner. JS has done some good moves like trading for Ernest Jones and his drafting has been much better the last few years and hiring Macdonald was excellant IMO.. This next draft being so weak taking the BPA seems necessary while also needing to fix the OL somehow. Maybe a trade? Maybe finding a gem somehow in the draft. IDK how it should be done but some bold moves are needed to repair the OL, then address QB in 2026 and don't be shy, don't be cheap, Whatever it takes do it.

 

[flyerhawk]

Look at the teams in the division and see what they have done at QB. Cards traded for Carson Palmer, then drafted Rosen in the first, then used the #1 overall on Murray. The Rams traded up to draft Goff with the second over all pick, then traded for Stafford. 49ers traded for Garpoppolo, moved up in the first to draft Lance, then drafted Purdy. What have the Seahawks done over that time span? Well they went with RW back up then resigned the back up to a longer contract to start, oh yeah they traded away some draft capitol for a practice squad QB to back up the back up turn starter. In essence they have bent over backwards to do as little as possible at the position.
I'm convinced that JS is scared to make a major move for a QB. He doesn't trust his own evaluation of QBs and making a major move for a QB could cost him his job if it doesn't work out. His solution has been to avoid doing any thing major because it's a risk. In the meantime other teams in the division have done big moves to fill the QB position. Yeah they don't always work out, but then keep keep trying. I've been disgusted with JS do as little as possible approach to the QB position.
Unfortunately this year that approach is likely necessary, because JS has painted the Seahawks into a corner. JS has done some good moves like trading for Ernest Jones and his drafting has been much better the last few years and hiring Macdonald was excellant IMO.. This next draft being so weak taking the BPA seems necessary while also needing to fix the OL somehow. Maybe a trade? Maybe finding a gem somehow in the draft. IDK how it should be done but some bold moves are needed to repair the OL, then address QB in 2026 and don't be shy, don't be cheap, Whatever it takes do it.

The Cards traded for Palmer 11 years ago. They used 2 separate early 1st round picks to get a QB. One was a complete flop and the other is a wildly inconsistent QB.
The Niners took Lance with the 2nd pick. He was a complete bust. Purdy has been a pleasant surprise for someone drafted in the last round. Not sure that qualifies as taking a chance on a QB though.
The Rams gave up a ton but did win a Super Bowl.

I just don't know what people think that Schneider realistically could have done the past 2 off seasons. Even if he could have somehow moved up and drafted Stroud, you see what happened to him when his OL took a big step back.

IMO, Schneider's far graver sin has been his inability to draft a competent OL.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The Cards traded for Palmer 11 years ago. They used 2 separate early 1st round picks to get a QB. One was a complete flop and the other is a wildly inconsistent QB.
The Niners took Lance with the 2nd pick. He was a complete bust. Purdy has been a pleasant surprise for someone drafted in the last round. Not sure that qualifies as taking a chance on a QB though.
The Rams gave up a ton but did win a Super Bowl.

I just don't know what people think that Schneider realistically could have done the past 2 off seasons. Even if he could have somehow moved up and drafted Stroud, you see what happened to him when his OL took a big step back.

IMO, Schneider's far graver sin has been his inability to draft a competent OL.

Yeah I get it, your in favor of doing nothing, taking no risks, making due with whatever at QB as long as it cost little. Your like JS twin brother in that regard. Different strokes for different folks I guess, that approach is disgusting to me. It's trying not to fail rather then trying to succeed. Your goal and JS is to avoid the basement at all cost and going for it is not prudent in your eyes, too risky, might end up in the basement.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah I get it, your in favor of doing nothing, taking no risks, making due with whatever at QB as long as it cost little. Your like JS twin brother in that regard. Different strokes for different folks I guess, that approach is disgusting to me. It's trying not to fail rather then trying to succeed. Your goal and JS is to avoid the basement at all cost and going for it is not prudent in your eyes, too risky, might end up in the basement.

I'm fine with taking calculated risks. I'm not fine with taking huge risks in hopes that we get lucky with a QB.

What I want is a competitive team that is trying to win Super Bowls. Intentionally bottoming out the team so you can get high draft picks is disgusting to me.

You seem to want to do something "bold" for the sake of doing something bold. That makes no sense to me. Every time I ask you what you wished that Schneider had done in the past 2 seasons you avoid answering.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Every time I ask you what you wished that Schneider had done in the past 2 seasons you avoid answering.

God Damn man, I want Schneider to make a move for a potential franchise QB. Why do you ask such ridiculous question when I have been pounding the table for doing just that for last few years? Staying pat and expecting a franchise QB to fall into the Seahawks lap is about the most unrealistic take someone could have and is why the Seahawks have been painted into a corner in regard to the QB situation.
By the way you poke at our division opponents bold move to find a franchise QB but notice both the 49ers and Rams been to the Super Bowl? Guess we can take solace that the Seahawks been better then the Cards.