Michael Jordan is a fraud

[Darrell Green Fan]

I’m definitely NOT one of the people who thinks losing in the finals is a demerit against your legacy. But 6 rings is a lot and more than all other GOAT contenders (except Kareem, tied)

I still think your take goes way too far regarding him fading from the debate. He will always be in the conversation

I still maintain Kareem is underrated. He has the hardware, he won championships at every level. He had the most unstoppable shot in the game's history and was the all time leading scorer before Lebron who was obviously aided by the 3 point shot.

 

[tlance]

Totally agree with all of this, which again goes to my point that so many who go with Lebron as the GOAT never saw MJ play.

Another thing I'm torn on is the Celtics and Lakers of the 80's obviously are stacked with all time greats. Just awesome teams. But what would they be today with the athletes just so much better now? Obviously the game has changed with all the 3's but I have a hard time believing Magic would not still be Magic, Bird never relied on athleticism and I believe could still fire step back daggers. Both of those teams, especially the Celtics, passed the ball so well. But how would they look against this Celtics defense that is so long and quick and would take away many of those passes. Thoughts?

Magic and Bird would be great in any era.

Magic is pretty clear cut #4 overall behind MJ, LeBron, and Kareem.

And it used to be MJ, Kareem and Magic.

But LeBron is like Magic 2.0. A more athletic, better scoring better defending variant.

Since the original is a top 5 all time player, you pretty much have to put LeBron significantly higher.

It is MJ and LeBron 1A and 1B tied at the top for me.

IMO, the only wrong answer is to say 1 clearly ahead of the other. It’s very close.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

Not all time great Lakers.

But when you do Lakers against the other 29 franchises?

I think that is fair game.

jabbar/west,wilt ,magic?

 

[rmilia1]

Totally agree with all of this, which again goes to my point that so many who go with Lebron as the GOAT never saw MJ play.

Another thing I'm torn on is the Celtics and Lakers of the 80's obviously are stacked with all time greats. Just awesome teams. But what would they be today with the athletes just so much better now? Obviously the game has changed with all the 3's but I have a hard time believing Magic would not still be Magic, Bird never relied on athleticism and I believe could still fire step back daggers. Both of those teams, especially the Celtics, passed the ball so well. But how would they look against this Celtics defense that is so long and quick and would take away many of those passes. Thoughts?

I think the greats are great in every era in a sport like basketball where the game isn't fundamentally different

 

[tlance]

I think the greats are great in every era in a sport like basketball where the game isn't fundamentally different.

Not any era.

Cant even measure the players from the 60s and before because competition was just so limited.

Wilt probably. Not convinced about anyone else from that era and before.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Magic and Bird would be great in any era.

Magic is pretty clear cut #4 overall behind MJ, LeBron, and Kareem.

And it used to be MJ, Kareem and Magic.

But LeBron is like Magic 2.0. A more athletic, better scoring better defending variant.

Since the original is a top 5 all time player, you pretty much have to put LeBron significantly higher.

It is MJ and LeBron 1A and 1B tied at the top for me.

IMO, the only wrong answer is to say 1 clearly ahead of the other. It’s very close.

I do believe MJ is the GOAT but I also believe it's also really close. I also agree Bird and Magic would still be great but would those teams beat today's champion?

 

[tlance]

I do believe MJ is the GOAT but I also believe it's also really close. I also agree Bird and Magic would still be great but would those teams beat today's champion?

If you put the best version of the Showtime Lakers in a Time Machine and matched them up with the 2024 Celtics?

No. I don’t believe so.

But Magic and Bird would be superstars today for sure.

 

[trojanfan12]

If you put the best version of the Showtime Lakers in a Time Machine and matched them up with the 2024 Celtics?

No. I don’t believe so.

But Magic and Bird would be superstars today for sure.

Would depend on how well the Lakers could adjust to defending the 3. which they were versatile enough to do. Problem for the C's would be who do they have that could handle Kareem, Magic and Worthy.

I think the best Bird Celtics team beats this years Celtics too.

 

[msgkings322]

Would depend on how well the Lakers could adjust to defending the 3. which they were versatile enough to do. Problem for the C's would be who do they have that could handle Kareem, Magic and Worthy.

I think the best Bird Celtics team beats this years Celtics too.

Agreed I list those teams (86 Celtics 85-87 Lakers) as top 5 all time. This year’s Celtics are like an almost but not quite super team

I do think it’s valid to consider the increased athleticism of the league now vs the 80s. That’s a long time

 

[tlance]

Would depend on how well the Lakers could adjust to defending the 3. which they were versatile enough to do. Problem for the C's would be who do they have that could handle Kareem, Magic and Worthy.

I think the best Bird Celtics team beats this years Celtics too.

This years Celtics aren’t in the conversation as being anywhere near as good as those teams relative to their eras.

But players are just better today.

And IMO, playing with current rules I think it would be really hard for any great team from the 80s to win today.

Generally speaking, I am betting on speed and skill winning out over size and skill in todays game.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

This years Celtics aren’t in the conversation as being anywhere near as good as those teams relative to their eras.

But players are just better today.

And IMO, playing with current rules I think it would be really hard for any great team froBut m the 80s to win today.

Generally speaking, I am betting on speed and skill winning out over size and skill in todays game.

This is my lean as well. Those 80's teams never faced the long, quick defense of today. They would still be good, I'm not convinced the '86 Celtics lose to this Celtics team, but overall teams are just better today. .