Michael Jordan: Tell me why YOU think he is the best ever

[Wamu]

I can't go along with Michael Jordan being the GOAT ever to play the game because I think that takes away from the effort and dedication of the others that contributed be it small or significant. Many of those contributions helped Michael get to the place he is. In addition we have to face the facts which is without 6 championships, MJ would not be considered the greatest of all time and he was allowed to do things on the court that players are not allowed to do starting with travelling and knocking other players out of his way. Take those things away in today's game and perhaps he wins zero. I will consent that he is one of the best, but there are at least 15 other players that deserves to share that title with MJ. No disrespect to MJ, but he is not the greatest ever.

 

[trojanfan12]

How much of the TV aspect of MJ's career do you attribute for his stauts as GOAT?? I mean it clearly played a part. Before the Magic/Bird era we really didnt see the greats so as to be able to appreciate them correctly. Do you think the timing of MJs career plays a big part os his reputation or just a small part?? Also I will pretty strongly disagree on the competitiveness in the NBA during the 90's. I thin k there were some good teams but no real great teams aside from Chicago. Now the 80's were ultra competitive and great but Chicago and MJ were just starting out in that era.

This is a very good point. I'm old enough to remember that prior to the Magic/Bird era, you were lucky to see a couple of NBA games per week and there was no guarantee that it would be "your team" or even teams that you cared to see. Back then, the only way to follow your teams games with any kind of consistency was the radio.

Even at the beginning of the Magic/Bird era, weekday NBA championship games would be on delay at 11:30pm. Had to avoid news, radio, etc. to be able to watch without knowing the outcome.

Things got better as the NBA got more popular, but it really wasn't until cable t.v. really started taking off that we started seeing a lot of NBA games and getting to see all of the great players consistently. I have often wondered what top all-time players lists might look like if the greats of the past got the kind of coverage that today's players get.

Just imagine how much coverage the title game where Magic played all 5 positions would have gotten if it were done today vs. being shown at 11:30pm on a Friday night.

 

[lakersrule]

I can't go along with Michael Jordan being the GOAT ever to play the game because I think that takes away from the effort and dedication of the others that contributed be it small or significant. Many of those contributions helped Michael get to the place he is. In addition we have to face the facts which is without 6 championships, MJ would not be considered the greatest of all time and he was allowed to do things on the court that players are not allowed to do starting with travelling and knocking other players out of his way. Take those things away in today's game and perhaps he wins zero. I will consent that he is one of the best, but there are at least 15 other players that deserves to share that title with MJ. No disrespect to MJ, but he is not the greatest ever.

But he won those 6 titles, so

 

[Clayton]

How much of the TV aspect of MJ's career do you attribute for his stauts as GOAT??

A lot but I think this works both ways. How much are the careers of older players preserved because they weren't shown on TV shooting over 6'3' white guys?

 

[logic]

A lot but I think this works both ways. How much are the careers of older players preserved because they weren't shown on TV shooting over 6'3' white guys?

And conversely, if Jordan had to put up with today's Twitter-verse coverage of his every move would he have been able to maintain his ultimately likable personality? He was pretty much the ultimate competitor and that often has a not so pretty side. Would everyone have wanted "to be like Mike" if we heard more about his gambling, etc...

 

[UK Cowboy]

Well....If he hadn't of taken off for three years in his prime, he would have won 9 straight Championships...there's that. Then there's the eyeball test. We had this discussion on another thread, Larry Bird's career high in points was 29.9. KiKi Vandeweghe's was 29.4. Now if you were a baseball analytic, you'd probably say they were similar players, but anyone who actually watched the games would tell you how absurd that is. It's about WHEN you play big, and MJ was as clutch as there was. MJ never disappeared in big games the way LeBron and Dwight Howard have at times

 

[Malibu]

Magic Johnson was the best ever. He could play every position including center which he did. Was the best passer ever in the NBA. No one ran a fast break better then Magic. Magic had an unstopable shot with his running sky hook. Ask the Celtics about that. Magic was as clutch and a winner. Just saying.

 

[rmilia1]

Im not sure I agree with the " if he hadnt taken 2 years off he would have won 8 straight titles" argument. Clearly there is no way to know for sure but the Bulls were definitely transitioning during those years. People forget MJ came back before the playoffs in 94-95 and the Bulls lost to the Magic. Do I think its possible they would have won 8 straight?? Sure. But the teams the Bulls had in his short time gone were not the same teams he had during his first 3 title runs and they certainly were not as good as the teams Chicago assembled afterwards. Even MJ needed pieces around him and those 2 Bulls teams ( especially 94-95) were not nearly as good as the others.

 

[redseat]

PISTOL PETE... ENOUGH SAID!

 

[rmilia1]

As to the entire Magic vs Michael scenario that has played out a billion times Ill say what Ive always said. ( and this will Im sure gain me criticism ) Magic was the better offensive player and by quite a bit. MJ was the better scorer but he wasnt the better offensive talent. Where MJ gets a big nod and the overall advantage IMO is on D. He was a all time great. Magic was a very good defender ( contrary to what people seem to think ) but he wasnt a game changer on D mostly because the height and size that gave him a HUGE advantage on offense really left him without a true defensive position to guard.

 

[MrHoople]

For me I would have to say that MJ was the best because of one word; Excellence.

He did everything as well as a player could do it. He was always supremely conditioned, highly intense, an excellent defender as well as an awesome shooter. His FG% was always 50% until he came back for two years with Washington and then it dropped because he wasn't the same guy.

MJ just did everything as well as possible and then you take those skills and wrap them with one of the most intense competitive people in sports and you end up with the greatest basketball player ever.

 

[Wamu]

As to the entire Magic vs Michael scenario that has played out a billion times Ill say what Ive always said. ( and this will Im sure gain me criticism ) Magic was the better offensive player and by quite a bit. MJ was the better scorer but he wasnt the better offensive talent. Where MJ gets a big nod and the overall advantage IMO is on D. He was a all time great. Magic was a very good defender ( contrary to what people seem to think ) but he wasnt a game changer on D mostly because the height and size that gave him a HUGE advantage on offense really left him without a true defensive position to guard.

Magic was the better offensive player by "quite a bit"?

 

[rmilia1]

Magic was the better offensive player by "quite a bit"?

Yep. I didnt stutter. He was responsible for a larger percentage of his teams offensive production ( on a team that scored more points BTW ) He was a better rebounder and he could play all 5 positions. Michael was the better scorer but he didnt do any of the other stuff Magic did. Its really not even debatable if you look at it realistically. MJ became the better OVERALL player on the defensive end. Statitically speaking ( pure numbers ) Magic was responsible for roughly 46 ppg via points or assists. MJ was responsible for about 42 or so.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Steve Novak is the GOAT.

/end thread

This is a good argument.

Wade and Butler still have something to say about it though

 

[rmilia1]

For me I would have to say that MJ was the best because of one word; Excellence.

He did everything as well as a player could do it. He was always supremely conditioned, highly intense, an excellent defender as well as an awesome shooter. His FG% was always 50% until he came back for two years with Washington and then it dropped because he wasn't the same guy.

MJ just did everything as well as possible and then you take those skills and wrap them with one of the most intense competitive people in sports and you end up with the greatest basketball player ever.

MJ shot a high percentage but he was not an awesome shooter. His FG% was largely due to his unparalleled ability to get to the basket. His pure jump shot numbers ( shots from 10 feet + out ) were just average, even for his generation. He was however an EXTREMELY steaky shooter and could go lights out like it was no ones business in games.

 

[rmilia1]

Something a lot of people dont realize is that since the inception of the 3 point shot MJ is the ONLY G in the top 50 in all time scoring that had less than 8% of his career shots as 3 pointers, Thats a crazy stat when you think about scorers from the guard or even small forward position. Most guys are hovering around the 20% mark for 3 point shots as it pertains to where they get their shots from. MJ clearly knew his forte and played to it. Another reason he is so great, he knew his game and didnt try to change it until he had to later in his career ( where he irnoically became a slightly better shooter )

 

[Wamu]

MJ shot a high percentage but he was not an awesome shooter. His FG% was largely due to his unparalleled ability to get to the basket. His pure jump shot numbers ( shots from 10 feet + out ) were just average, even for his generation. He was however an EXTREMELY steaky shooter and could go lights out like it was no ones business in games.

Okay you win. I bet you think Kobe is a better SG that MJ was as well, ya know the whole L.A. Lakers thing. Oh yeah also Worthy is the greatest SF of all time!

 

[MrHoople]

Yep. I didnt stutter. He was responsible for a larger percentage of his teams offensive production ( on a team that scored more points BTW ) He was a better rebounder and he could play all 5 positions. Michael was the better scorer but he didnt do any of the other stuff Magic did. Its really not even debatable if you look at it realistically. MJ became the better OVERALL player on the defensive end. Statitically speaking ( pure numbers ) Magic was responsible for roughly 46 ppg via points or assists. MJ was responsible for about 42 or so.

Teams played more defense during Jordan's era and games were lower scoring.

When you really needed a basket Jordan was the guy you turned to. Magic was never seen this way.

 

[MrHoople]

MJ shot a high percentage but he was not an awesome shooter. His FG% was largely due to his unparalleled ability to get to the basket. His pure jump shot numbers ( shots from 10 feet + out ) were just average, even for his generation. He was however an EXTREMELY steaky shooter and could go lights out like it was no ones business in games.

How many times have we seen Jordan score a game winner while being double teamed. Stopping Jordan was priority #1 for teams. Defenses keyed on him and he still burned them. From outside even!

 

[Jack_John_Mark]

Every player in the history of the game could be stopped......except for Jordan.

The turn-around fade-away was impossible to defend......and he executed it to perfection, over and over and over again.

He was unstoppable.