ESPN's Mike Sando's starting QB ranking

[UK Cowboy]

Haha thanks. Just know I saw on another thread on their board they were talking about another analyst for the NFL Network rated Tony Romo and others pretty much the same level where ESPN and all they had contribute to this list and they were going a bit crazy with it. Again I just don't see why rating him 8th overall and tied with some pretty darn good quarterbacks should be considered such an insult. I know we can argue left and right of what quarterback belongs where I guess but at the end of the day being a top-10 person in the world at something is pretty darn impressive in my book. Only 10 people can say they are in that unique group.

Couldn't agree more. It's like it's an insult to place him top 10, which is probably a little higher than he belongs, but politically correct because they won the Super Bowl. There are polls on the general board trying to compare the Seahawks D to the all time great D's, others trying to place Wilson in the top 5 QB's, all by Seahawks fans. If they win 3 of 4 or 4 of 7 rings, they can place all the polls up they want and I'll be good with it. Until then, they are just another team that won one, with a 5'10 QB that is a decent player, but wouldn't look so top 10ish if he played for Jax or Cleveland. Here's a better comparison for Wilson to me than putting him against the top 10 guys....is he better than Andy Dalton? Is he better than Nick Foles? Is he better than RG3? If this kid were in Washington last year, does he elevate them to the playoffs? I say no freaking way

 

[UK Cowboy]

I guess do you really want to play this game? I never said he was horrible on deep throws. I said that I agreed that he was sometimes a bit inconsistent as he has a tendency to float the ball a little bit leading to some high passes. Most shorter quarterbacks have this issue as they try to throw it a bit higher to help compensate for the height difference which on occasion leads to a floating ball.

Also a highlight video is a ridiculous source of evidence. You are looking at what maybe 40-50 throws in a video like that of his over 500 at Wisconsin. More than one report noticed that Wilson wanted to leave the pocket quickly. Most college quarterbacks do anyway especially ones that can run like Wilson.

So now I will break down just one game for you here on Wilson and throws that were a bit inconsistent. This is just his Michigan State game in the Championship game (his better of the two)...

12 minute mark of the game around the 30 yard line Wilson runs a play action pass and throws a 15 yard pass to I think Toon. Pass is catchable but on a slant play like that the last thing you want to do to your receiver is throw it high as that is a quick way to get them hurt. Toon has to leap in the air to make a great catch. Catchable ball but horrible placement in that kind of situation. Again height making it hard to do the quick pass like he needs to in that situation but if he were a bit taller he probably could have placed the ball in a lot safer place for his receiver.

5:40 in the 1st quarter it is not a deep pass but once again throws high on a comeback route pretty much out of the receivers ability to catch it.

8:37 in the 2nd quarter again on a comeback route not sure what happened but looked like most likely a miscommunication more than anything but threw the ball high and outside out of reach of the receiver. Not really sure who was at fault on this one as my guess is it was more a misroute than an actual bad pass.

3:20 in the 2nd quarter looks like he is probably just throwing the ball away as he is running out of the pocket and receiver is pretty well covered. Could have fit it in but it would have been a tight window.

2:39 in the 2nd quarter over throws a sideline throw. Not a deep pass but a 10 yard side line throw that sailed on the running back.

Around 3:30 in the 3rd quarter WR had a step on a deep throw and Wilson just overthrew him by a yard or two otherwise good chance it is a touchdown or at the very least a big play.

Height was a factor on the 2 point conversion they tried at 3:25 where it got tipped when he tried to throw an inside route.

Now this was a good game for him and he was clutch for most of the game but like I said on some of his throws he does have a tendency to float them over the receiver or when he really tries to zip them they go high. Not every time as he is a very accurate quarterback but it does show up some. Also on about half the passing plays he did a ton of running around and I would say 35% of his passing plays he was running completely out of the pocket. This is what the scouts saw. Doesn't make him a bad quarterback just shows he does have some weaknesses.

Heck when Manning came out he was scrutinized up and down and there were some who didn't think he was the best quarterback in the draft. It happens where people can only see the weaknesses in a player and begin missing out on the best that a player can offer.

I can break down more games if you want as it doesn't take too long with the greatness of technology these days but I am pretty sure there will be some great throws like there were in this game mixed in with a few bad ones. Every quarterback has them. My guess is scouts watched some of this especially that first throw to Toon with the slant route where you have to laser it in to the window and saw that the ball had to go high to get over the Offensive and Defensive Line players. In the NFL I am sure they worried that kind of throw would get a WR or TE killed. I would. Doesn't again make him a bad quarterback just makes you worried as a coach, scout, GM or whatever in will that hurt a team's ability to succeed if he is limited on where on the field he can throw to. Now I know there are plenty of plays where he did fine throwing to the middle but again in this one I saw one go high and 2 batted balls at the line just from this game alone.

AGAIN EVERY PLAYER HAS SOME WEAKNESSES TO THEIR GAME! I'm not trying to bash Wilson. I think he is a heck of a player and a heck of a nice guy and is going to be in this league for a long time and be very successful. I'm not ready to crown him one of the elite quarterbacks in the league but if he continues down the path he is going then I don't see why he can't reach that level.

Great post, and here is the thing about Wilson. There wasn't one team that gameplanned for him this season. All the NFL DC's now have a book on this kid, and they WILL take away the things he does best. If he can make adjustments to their adjustments, he will move closer to the top 10. Lets see it first

 

[Smart]

You really want to stand behind your "it was obvious to just about everyone claim" when 74 players were drafted ahead of Wilson? Doesn't seem the least bit honest to me.

I mean, you can look at scouting report after scouting report which says he'd be a top 10 pick if he were 6'2. That means "I like his talent enough to see him as a top 10 talent, but conventional wisdom says my eyes are wrong." It would have been one thing if it were a legitimate concern, but he played behind a bigger line at Wisconsin and all he did was put up the highest QB Rating ever.

It was like Michael Jordan going #3. People knew where Russell belonged, but they were so tied to conventional wisdom that they ignored what they knew. I don't think there is a GM in the world who
didn't think Russell Wilson had first round game, and I dare you to find any of them claiming otherwise.

Couldn't agree more. It's like it's an insult to place him top 10, which is probably a little higher than he belongs, but politically correct because they won the Super Bowl. There are polls on the general board trying to compare the Seahawks D to the all time great D's, others trying to place Wilson in the top 5 QB's, all by Seahawks fans. If they win 3 of 4 or 4 of 7 rings, they can place all the polls up they want and I'll be good with it. Until then, they are just another team that won one, with a 5'10 QB that is a decent player, but wouldn't look so top 10ish if he played for Jax or Cleveland. Here's a better comparison for Wilson to me than putting him against the top 10 guys....is he better than Andy Dalton? Is he better than Nick Foles? Is he better than RG3? If this kid were in Washington last year, does he elevate them to the playoffs? I say no freaking way

So if we gave him a better offensive line and a true #1 receiver, the guy with the second highest QB rating ever wouldn't look top 10ish. Got it.

See...here's the thing. You've posted a couple dozen posts in two threads and you've yet to make an argument on why Russell Wilson is bad. You just list his height and then pretend that quarterbacks who all statistical measures and the eye test show are inferior somehow would outperform Russell if he were in a similar situation. The problem is that most of those QBs actually have a better supporting cast on offense and far worse numbers.

So yeah, you are an idiot.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I think I would put Ben Roelthlisberger just below Cam Newton. Either have Roethlisberger last of Tier 2 or first of Tier 3. I don't think he is what he used to be.

Not sure why you think that... He just had his 2nd best year in passing yards & passing TDs. Thinking he is falling off is absurd. He has the best O-line he has ever played behind, he finally has a RB in Bell (not to mention depth at the position with Blount), and he has one of the deepest WR corps he has ever had. The offense as a whole has gotten a lot better, so Ben doesn't have to do his usual "throw the team on his back" type of play. That will help him stay healthy. The only concern I would have right now is he is getting up there in age... But he hasn't shown any signs of his age yet.

 

[NinerSickness]

Gino Smith. lol

Guaranteed way to get 100 posts in a thread: post a QB ranking.

 

[gandydancer]

Seems pretty legit to me, tho I wouldn't have Luck in the first tier myself. I'd just drop him to the top of tier two.

Very good assessment

 

[TDs3nOut]

Gino Smith. lol

Guaranteed way to get 100 posts in a thread: post a QB ranking.

Who has the better year, Smith or Kaepernick?

 

[gandydancer]

Couldn't agree more. It's like it's an insult to place him top 10, which is probably a little higher than he belongs, but politically correct because they won the Super Bowl. There are polls on the general board trying to compare the Seahawks D to the all time great D's, others trying to place Wilson in the top 5 QB's, all by Seahawks fans. If they win 3 of 4 or 4 of 7 rings, they can place all the polls up they want and I'll be good with it. Until then, they are just another team that won one, with a 5'10 QB that is a decent player, but wouldn't look so top 10ish if he played for Jax or Cleveland. Here's a better comparison for Wilson to me than putting him against the top 10 guys....is he better than Andy Dalton? Is he better than Nick Foles? Is he better than RG3? If this kid were in Washington last year, does he elevate them to the playoffs? I say no freaking way

When is the last time any QB looked top 10ish in Jax or Cleveland?

 

[NinerSickness]

Who has the better year, Smith or Kaepernick?

I don't think it's even gonna be close. I always thought Geno Smith was an absolute turd from the day he was drafted. Kaepernick's at least a mediocre QB w/ the potential to become a little better than mediocre IMO.

I was laughing at the spelling.

 

[Clayton]

Tier 1

1) Aaron Rodgers (GB)
2) Peyton Manning (DEN)
3) Tom Brady (NE)
4) Drew Brees (NO)
5) Phillip Rivers (SD)
6) Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)

Tier 2

7) Tony Romo (DAL)
8) Matt Ryan (ATL)
9) Russell Wilson (SEA)
10) Colin Kaepernick (SF)
11) Andrew Luck (IND)
12) Cam Newton (CAR)
13) Joe Flacco (BAL)
14) Eli Manning (NYG)
15) Matthew Stafford (DET)
16) Jay Cutler (CHI)

Tier 3

17) Alex Smith (KC)
18) Nick Foles (PHI)
19) Josh McCown (TB)
20) Andy Dalton (CIN)

Tier 4

21) Robert Griffin III (WAS)
22) Sam Bradford (STL)
23) Jake Locker (TEN)

Tier 5

24) Ryan Tannehill (MIA)
25) Chad Henne (JAX)
26) Carson Palmer (ARI)
27) Matt Cassel (MIN)
28) Matt Schaub (OAK)
29) EJ Manuel (BUF)
30) Brian Hoyer (CLE)
31) Ryan Fitzpatrick (HOU)
32) Gino Smith (NYJ)

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Tier 1

1) Aaron Rodgers (GB)
2) Peyton Manning (DEN)
3) Tom Brady (NE)
4) Drew Brees (NO)
5) Phillip Rivers (SD)
6) Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)

Tier 2

7) Tony Romo (DAL)
8) Andrew Luck (IND)
9) Russell Wilson (SEA)
10) Matt Ryan (ATL)
11) Cam Newton (CAR)
12) Eli Manning (NYG)
13) Matthew Stafford (DET)
14) Jay Cutler (CHI)

Tier 3

15) Alex Smith (KC)
16) Nick Foles (PHI)
17) Andy Dalton (CIN)
18) Joe Flacco (BAL)
19) Josh McCown (TB)
20) Colin Kaepernick (SF)

Tier 4

21) Robert Griffin III (WAS)
22) Sam Bradford (STL)
23) Jake Locker (TEN)
24) Ryan Tannehill (MIA)

Tier 5

25) Brian Hoyer (CLE)
26) Carson Palmer (ARI)
27) Matt Cassel (MIN)
28) Matt Schaub (OAK)
29) EJ Manuel (BUF)
30) Chad Henne (JAX)
31) Ryan Fitzpatrick (HOU)
32) Gino Smith (NYJ)

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm sure Jonny Manziel will soon be occupying spot #31 in front of GIno as soon as he gets a chance to show how much he sucks.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I'm sure Jonny Manziel will soon be occupying spot #31 in front of GIno as soon as he gets a chance to show how much he sucks.

Aside from an injury to Hoyer, I don't see how he could get the starting position.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Tier 1


1) Tom Brady (NE)
2) Peyton Manning (DEN
3) Aaron Rodgers ( GB)
4) Drew Brees (NO)
5) Phillip Rivers (SD)
6) Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)

Tier 2

7) Tony Romo (DAL)
8) Matt Ryan (ATL)
9) Russell Wilson (SEA)
10) Colin Kaepernick (SF)
11) Andrew Luck (IND)
12) Cam Newton (CAR)
13) Joe Flacco (BAL)
14) Eli Manning (NYG)
15) Matthew Stafford (DET)
16) Jay Cutler (CHI)

Tier 3

17) Alex Smith (KC)
18) Nick Foles (PHI)
19) Josh McCown (TB)
20) Andy Dalton (CIN)

Tier 4

21) Robert Griffin III (WAS)
22) Sam Bradford (STL)
23) Jake Locker (TEN)

Tier 5

24) Ryan Tannehill (MIA)
25) Chad Henne (JAX)
26) Carson Palmer (ARI)
27) Matt Cassel (MIN)
28) Matt Schaub (OAK)
29) EJ Manuel (BUF)
30) Brian Hoyer (CLE)
31) Ryan Fitzpatrick (HOU)
32) Gino Smith (NYJ)

 

[Wedgie]

Great post, and here is the thing about Wilson. There wasn't one team that gameplanned for him this season. All the NFL DC's now have a book on this kid, and they WILL take away the things he does best. If he can make adjustments to their adjustments, he will move closer to the top 10. Lets see it first

Congratulations! You are now officially the stupidest fucker on this site!

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Congratulations! You are now officially the stupidest fucker on this site!

UK is weak sauce, hardly worth noticing.

 

[Desean12345]

Really there is 4 elite Qb's and then everyone else. Im not going to bother putting everyone else in tiers.

 

[gandydancer]

Aside from an injury to Hoyer, I don't see how he could get the starting position.

I hate how now these kids start from jump street. Cam is just now starting to look decent or serviceable. I feel some kids fail because the game is too fast and they are not ready after two college seasons. Just my opinion.

Johnny will have that ego checked for sure if he starts. I see a Tebow II coming to a TV near you.

 

[UK Cowboy]

UK is weak sauce, hardly worth noticing.

If thinking Russell Wilson is average at best equals weak sauce, you bet

 

[Wedgie]

If thinking Russell Wilson is average at best equals weak sauce, you bet

Lol, you admitted being a tard, hahaha...

Ya, that and saying other teams didnt game plan for him, etc.

Seriously, you just pull shit out yer ass and call it caviar, when everyone else plainly sees it for what it is.

Have you any facts to back your shit up? I mean like being tied for most touchdown throws in his first two years. Things like that, you know, facts....