ESPN's Mike Sando's starting QB ranking

[cdumler7]

When I think that, I always think about one of the last time I watched HBO's show Inside the NFL.

Collinsworth was talking about how he did a fantasy team just to see how good he would do. He mentioned his overall rank, which was something like 10,000 something. It was really bad. He was like, "It's my job to know this stuff. I get paid to look at film and I am doing that bad..." He like could not stand it for around the next 5 minutes.

I understand that side of it. I am talking more when you get this big of a group and a great mix of ex-players, coaches, GM's, scouts and so on. You are getting a perspective from all angles. I would also say Fantasy Football is not a great way to see how much a person really knows about football. Such as Tom Brady had a really down year yet I bet most would rank him in the top-5 quarterbacks. Fantasy Football also depends quite a bit on injuries. I drafted Julio Jones this last year in a couple of my leagues and when he was playing my team was winning. Once he went down I had to scramble some to find a consistent receiver to fill his spot. Same with RB's in you never know quite when they are going to go down. I understand he is an expert so probably should do better than that but there is a reason so many people watch these "experts" when they start talking Fantasy Football and who will be the sleepers and such.

 

[iowajerms]

I understand that side of it. I am talking more when you get this big of a group and a great mix of ex-players, coaches, GM's, scouts and so on. You are getting a perspective from all angles. I would also say Fantasy Football is not a great way to see how much a person really knows about football. Such as Tom Brady had a really down year yet I bet most would rank him in the top-5 quarterbacks. Fantasy Football also depends quite a bit on injuries. I drafted Julio Jones this last year in a couple of my leagues and when he was playing my team was winning. Once he went down I had to scramble some to find a consistent receiver to fill his spot. Same with RB's in you never know quite when they are going to go down. I understand he is an expert so probably should do better than that but there is a reason so many people watch these "experts" when they start talking Fantasy Football and who will be the sleepers and such.

I do like Chris Collinsworth. I think he is a great commentator. He might say a lot of obvious statements to football fans, but that is better than saying nothing for a broadcaster. He really does know his stuff.

I am not trying to discredit this list too. This guy is an ESPN Insider reporter, which is very credible. I am sure he spent a lot of time on his research.

 

[cdumler7]

I do like Chris Collinsworth. I think he is a great commentator. He might say a lot of obvious statements to football fans, but that is better than saying nothing for a broadcaster. He really does know his stuff.

I am not trying to discredit this list too. This guy is an ESPN Insider reporter, which is very credible. I am sure he spent a lot of time on his research.

The thing about this list is it really isn't his own though. He was just the guy that organized this group of GM's, Coaches, Ex-players, scouts and such. Now given we don't know who they were so some of their voting could have been swayed somewhat but usually when you get a group like this that has a wide range of opinions and perspectives you are going to get a good overall view of where a player really ranks.

Honestly I am one that hates the NFL top 100 where they let players vote. Yes these players play against each other so they probably have a better perspective than say us fans but at the same time they obviously don't have time to watch film on all of these players so a lot of comes down to a popularity contest just like the Pro Bowl.

This list to me is one of the better because it is the guys who spend hours upon hours watching every single one of these players and understand either a down year doesn't always mean the player actually played worse than the year before but that it could just be the talent around him wasn't as good or that he had a few more tipped balls that became interceptions kind of thing. Most fans look at the touchdowns and interceptions and say well player A with 40 touchdowns and only 10 interceptions is clearly better than player B with 30 touchdowns and 12 interceptions when in reality player A could have elite talent around him compared to player be that has mediocre at best. These are the guys that would know those kind of things more than your average joe schmoe.

 

[HizzleRocker]

Tier 1

t1) Tom Brady (NE)
t1) Peyton Manning (DEN)
t1) Aaron Rodgers (GB)
t1) Drew Brees (NO)
5) Andrew Luck (IND) - (way too high)

Tier 2

6) Phillip Rivers (SD)
7) Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)
t8) Matt Ryan (ATL)
t8) Tony Romo (DAL)
t8) Russell Wilson (SEA)
t8)t Eli Manning (NYG)
12) Joe Flacco (BAL)
13) Matthew Stafford (DET)
14) Colin Kaepernick (SF)
15) Nick Foles (PHI) - (too high)

Tier 3

16) Cam Newton (CAR) - (too low)
17) Jay Cutler (CHI) - (too low)
18) Alex Smith (KC)
t19) Andy Dalton (CIN)
t19) Robert Griffin III (WAS)
t21) Carson Palmer (ARI)
t21) Sam Bradford (STL)
23) Ryan Tannehill (MIA)
24) Josh McCown (TB)

Tier 4

25) Matt Schaub (OAK)
26) Chad Henne (JAX)
27) EJ Manuel (BUF)
28) Matt Cassel (MIN)
29) Brian Hoyer (CLE)
30) Ryan Fitzpatrick (HOU)
31) Jake Locker (TEN)
32) Gino Smith (NYJ)

ESPN Insider: NFL - Anonymous league insiders rank 32 starting quarterbacks into tiers - ESPN

My issues.

 

[cdumler7]

Cutler's problem is health and inconsistency at this point. He reminds me of a poor man's Brett Favre in he will go and win you some games with an amazing game then follow it up with a 4 interception game. He will have some games where he looks fired up and then the next where he is just sitting on the bench sulking. When he was with the Broncos you would be praising his name one week and cussing it the next so you just never quite knew what you were going to get from one week to the next. Throw in like I said just health wise he has struggled to play through a full season and at least this last year when he went out the team seemed to run just fine without him so that doesn't scream game changer to me. Right now I would rank him about where he is but if he can stay healthy and be a bit more consistent easily moving into that second tier.


Newton I agree. I am very shocked they had him so low with all that he has done in his short career.


Luck I feel like is more of a projection of what they see in him. No quarterback has been hit more in the last 2 years than him yet he has put up decent stats and has shown poise through it all. I would also say if we are talking impact on a team he is the only reason Indy is considered a winning team. Without him they are right back where they were without Manning that one year in one of the worst in the league. He is one of those few players who can elevate his team by about 10 wins a season. Heck he and the Colts are the only team last year to beat the Seahawks, 49ers, and Broncos (top-3 teams in the league) and a big part of that was Luck. I would put him at the top of tier 2 right below Rivers at this point.


A guy I am surprised with how low they rated him is Alex Smith. I know he isn't top tier worthy but he has been a whole heck of a lot more consistent than a lot those guys in tier 2 over the past 3 or so years.

 

[gowazzu02]

Cutler's problem is health and inconsistency at this point. He reminds me of a poor man's Brett Favre in he will go and win you some games with an amazing game then follow it up with a 4 interception game. He will have some games where he looks fired up and then the next where he is just sitting on the bench sulking. When he was with the Broncos you would be praising his name one week and cussing it the next so you just never quite knew what you were going to get from one week to the next. Throw in like I said just health wise he has struggled to play through a full season and at least this last year when he went out the team seemed to run just fine without him so that doesn't scream game changer to me. Right now I would rank him about where he is but if he can stay healthy and be a bit more consistent easily moving into that second tier.


Newton I agree. I am very shocked they had him so low with all that he has done in his short career.


Luck I feel like is more of a projection of what they see in him. No quarterback has been hit more in the last 2 years than him yet he has put up decent stats and has shown poise through it all. I would also say if we are talking impact on a team he is the only reason Indy is considered a winning team. Without him they are right back where they were without Manning that one year in one of the worst in the league. He is one of those few players who can elevate his team by about 10 wins a season. Heck he and the Colts are the only team last year to beat the Seahawks, 49ers, and Broncos (top-3 teams in the league) and a big part of that was Luck. I would put him at the top of tier 2 right below Rivers at this point.


A guy I am surprised with how low they rated him is Alex Smith. I know he isn't top tier worthy but he has been a whole heck of a lot more consistent than a lot those guys in tier 2 over the past 3 or so years.

A quick note on wilson. I think he is accurately placed in the tier, but can i please voice my displeasure with them saying hes tied with romo? Tat doesnt make me a homer does that?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

A quick note on wilson. I think he is accurately placed in the tier, but can i please voice my displeasure with them saying hes tied with romo? Tat doesnt make me a homer does that?

My view is if you're gonna just debate the clutch gene, Wilson wins. But when you look at the overall body of Romos work and not just focus on those game losing moments, there is quite a bit of room for debate.

 

[SonnyCID]

My view is if you're gonna just debate the clutch gene, Wilson wins. But when you look at the overall body of Romos work and not just focus on those game losing moments, there is quite a bit of room for debate.

True, but those game losing moments should be huge in évaluation.

 

[cdumler7]

A quick note on wilson. I think he is accurately placed in the tier, but can i please voice my displeasure with them saying hes tied with romo? Tat doesnt make me a homer does that?

Here is what they said on Russell Wilson... Everyone likes Wilson. But not everyone loves him, especially when it comes to projecting how a 5-foot-10 QB would fare without a dominant defense and running game on his side. Still, Wilson came in ahead of Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton and Robert Griffin III, three other young, mobile QBs.
"I love Russell Wilson," one GM said. "I like him for the intangibles, which Kaepernick has not displayed. I have Wilson as a three and think he might ascend to a two. I don't think he will ever be a one. Kaepernick has a chance to be a one, but he also has a chance to be a three or a four."
Evaluators across the board lauded Wilson for his decision-making, both with the football and in avoiding big hits when scrambling.
Still, some said they wanted to see more from Wilson in terms of decision-making and downfield accuracy from within the pocket. "He has a curl-flat wide open and cannot see it, so he spins out and rips it 40 yards downfield to make an amazing big play," one evaluator said.
A head coach said he'd rather have Sam Bradford than Wilson purely from a talent standpoint.
As noted previously, the numbers from Wilson and Kaepernick from within the pocket are solid, but that doesn't mean people in the league perceive them as effective pocket passers. One head coach said teams with good game plans have taken away escape routes and made Wilson struggle. Injuries at receiver and along the offensive line have not helped. "I want them to win games from the pocket at some point," one GM said of shorter QBs. "That is what will separate Russell Wilson -- besides a great 'D' -- from the Doug Fluties of the world. Eventually, you made them beat you from the pocket and they could not do it. Maybe he ascends to the bottom of that one tier, but I see him probably more top of the second."

I think you have an argument when it comes to Wilson being above Romo but I also think those on the other side could make an argument as well. I remember last year watching Romo against my Broncos and he had an outstanding game. Yes he had the pick that sealed the game for the Broncos but at the same time he shouldn't have to score 50 points on offense to win a game. Romo has to force a lot more because he just doesn't have the supporting cast around him to do anything. So in those big moments he has to do so much more than most to succeed. It then usually leads to something bad happening.

Throw in for Romo he has probably had one of the worst GM's and coaching situations in the league. As this says he plays for a very undisciplined organization that allows him to be out of control. If he ever got a coach to reign in some of his craziness I think he could do just fine.

Again you just have to dig a little to realize Romo isn't as bad as the media tries to make him out to be. He has I think 19 4th quarter come backs since he started starting in this league. That is 5th most in the league in that time span (now given some of the younger guys could easily pass that in that time span). He also has the 3rd highest QBR in the 4th quarter of any quarterback in that time span only behind Manning and Rodgers.

Now he does lead the league in 4th quarter interceptions during that time but interceptions are hard to judge as not every interception is a quarterbacks fault. Heck look at a list of quarterbacks with the most interceptions in the 4th quarter when a team is tied or winning by 7 points or fewer and 2nd on the list behind Romo is Brady. I don't think many would say Brady has a clutch problem.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Here is what they said on Russell Wilson... Everyone likes Wilson. But not everyone loves him, especially when it comes to projecting how a 5-foot-10 QB would fare without a dominant defense and running game on his side. Still, Wilson came in ahead of Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton and Robert Griffin III, three other young, mobile QBs.
"I love Russell Wilson," one GM said. "I like him for the intangibles, which Kaepernick has not displayed. I have Wilson as a three and think he might ascend to a two. I don't think he will ever be a one. Kaepernick has a chance to be a one, but he also has a chance to be a three or a four."
Evaluators across the board lauded Wilson for his decision-making, both with the football and in avoiding big hits when scrambling.
Still, some said they wanted to see more from Wilson in terms of decision-making and downfield accuracy from within the pocket. "He has a curl-flat wide open and cannot see it, so he spins out and rips it 40 yards downfield to make an amazing big play," one evaluator said.
A head coach said he'd rather have Sam Bradford than Wilson purely from a talent standpoint.
As noted previously, the numbers from Wilson and Kaepernick from within the pocket are solid, but that doesn't mean people in the league perceive them as effective pocket passers. One head coach said teams with good game plans have taken away escape routes and made Wilson struggle. Injuries at receiver and along the offensive line have not helped. "I want them to win games from the pocket at some point," one GM said of shorter QBs. "That is what will separate Russell Wilson -- besides a great 'D' -- from the Doug Fluties of the world. Eventually, you made them beat you from the pocket and they could not do it. Maybe he ascends to the bottom of that one tier, but I see him probably more top of the second."

I think you have an argument when it comes to Wilson being above Romo but I also think those on the other side could make an argument as well. I remember last year watching Romo against my Broncos and he had an outstanding game. Yes he had the pick that sealed the game for the Broncos but at the same time he shouldn't have to score 50 points on offense to win a game. Romo has to force a lot more because he just doesn't have the supporting cast around him to do anything. So in those big moments he has to do so much more than most to succeed. It then usually leads to something bad happening.

Throw in for Romo he has probably had one of the worst GM's and coaching situations in the league. As this says he plays for a very undisciplined organization that allows him to be out of control. If he ever got a coach to reign in some of his craziness I think he could do just fine.

Again you just have to dig a little to realize Romo isn't as bad as the media tries to make him out to be. He has I think 19 4th quarter come backs since he started starting in this league. That is 5th most in the league in that time span (now given some of the younger guys could easily pass that in that time span). He also has the 3rd highest QBR in the 4th quarter of any quarterback in that time span only behind Manning and Rodgers.

Now he does lead the league in 4th quarter interceptions during that time but interceptions are hard to judge as not every interception is a quarterbacks fault. Heck look at a list of quarterbacks with the most interceptions in the 4th quarter when a team is tied or winning by 7 points or fewer and 2nd on the list behind Romo is Brady. I don't think many would say Brady has a clutch problem.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Tier 1

2) Tom Brady (NE)
3) Peyton Manning (DEN)
1) Aaron Rodgers (GB)
4) Drew Brees (NO)
5) Andrew Luck (IND)

Tier 2

6) Phillip Rivers (SD)
7) Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)
9) Matt Ryan (ATL)
8) Tony Romo (DAL)
13) Russell Wilson (SEA)
11) Eli Manning (NYG)
12) Joe Flacco (BAL)
10) Matthew Stafford (DET)
14) Colin Kaepernick (SF)
15) Nick Foles (PHI)

Tier 3

16) Cam Newton (CAR)
17) Jay Cutler (CHI)
18) Alex Smith (KC)
t19) Andy Dalton (CIN)
t19) Robert Griffin III (WAS)
t21) Carson Palmer (ARI)
t21) Sam Bradford (STL)
23) Ryan Tannehill (MIA)
24) Josh McCown (TB)

Tier 4

25) Matt Schaub (OAK)
26) Chad Henne (JAX)
27) EJ Manuel (BUF)
28) Matt Cassel (MIN)
29) Brian Hoyer (CLE)
30) Ryan Fitzpatrick (HOU)
31) Jake Locker (TEN)
32) Gino Smith (NYJ)

ESPN Insider: NFL - Anonymous league insiders rank 32 starting quarterbacks into tiers - ESPN

I changed the top 15 to where I would put them.

 

[sonnyblack65]

My view is if you're gonna just debate the clutch gene, Wilson wins. But when you look at the overall body of Romos work and not just focus on those game losing moments, there is quite a bit of room for debate.

Brady and Wilson are both clutch in big games. Both with big chips on shoulders for being drafted in 6th and 3rds. Rodgers is pretty clutch too, needs better 0 Line and D obviously. Can say what you want about D's but both teams didnt sniff playoffs without those 2 ice in vein guys. Reg culprits choke under pressure when it counts

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Brady and Wilson are both clutch in big games. Both with big chips on shoulders for being drafted in 6th and 3rds. Rodgers is pretty clutch too, needs better 0 Line and D obviously. Can say what you want about D's but both teams didnt sniff playoffs without those 2 ice in vein guys. Reg culprits choke under pressure when it counts

Can't argue with the clutch gene being critical.

 

[JDM]

Luck, romo, Eli down

Rivers, griffin, Smith, locker up

 

[Smart]

Uh oh prepare for the onslaught of Seahawks fans being ticked that anybody would rate Russell Wilson out of the top-5 quarterbacks. This is the 2nd article done by experts (one by ESPN and one by NFL.com) that have rated him right around 10th-12th in the league. My guess is those who watch every game and are paid to do so have a pretty good idea where a player is ranked. I understand they all are not the greatest of experts but when you have a wide range of coaches, scouts, GM's, analyst, ex-players, and so on they can come up with a pretty good list.

You forget that those same experts ranked him as a 4th-5th rounder and didn't think he'd ever start an NFL game. So no, they clearly don't have a good grasp on where Russell Wilson should be ranked. By even ranking him in the second tier, they've already admitted I have been more accurate in evaluating Russell than they have.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Can't argue with the clutch gene being critical.

Ty and its key. Thats why Montana was the GOAT in my opnion. Brady I think get screwed by pooch in last 2 but also I know the Tuck rule was BS so that was a gimmee. Wilson was big on 3rd downs and all like 8 yards. Some guys just fade when the big light comes on. BTW I saw your team kill Buffalo in 91 in the Minn superdome. Monk, Rypien, Riggins thing of beauty. They demolished Buffalo

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Ty and its key. Thats why Montana was the GOAT in my opnion. Brady I think get screwed by pooch in last 2 but also I know the Tuck rule was BS so that was a gimmee. Wilson was big on 3rd downs and all like 8 yards. Some guys just fade when the big light comes on. BTW I saw your team kill Buffalo in 91 in the Minn superdome. Monk, Rypien, Riggins thing of beauty. They demolished Buffalo

LOVED that game. Jealous! Wish I coulda been there IRL, but regardless a hell of a great watch for me. Liked our win over the Broncos in the SB too

Unitas for me.

 

[sonnyblack65]

LOVED that game.

Unitas for me.

i was a kid then maybe 26 and didnt know who Unitas was. ESPN wasnt like it is now plus worked 80 hr weeks

 

[cdumler7]

You forget that those same experts ranked him as a 4th-5th rounder and didn't think he'd ever start an NFL game. So no, they clearly don't have a good grasp on where Russell Wilson should be ranked. By even ranking him in the second tier, they've already admitted I have been more accurate in evaluating Russell than they have.

There were plenty of question marks surrounding Wilson that made it easy to see why he wasn't a 1st round pick. Some questioned his drive for the NFL as he for a long time and still somewhat had/has his eyes towards the MLB. You look at his college stats at both NC State and Wisconsin and although his first 3 years were good they weren't outstanding. His final year at Wisconsin he had an outstanding season but he also had a great OL and a RB that broke quite a few NCAA records. Yes his height was a concern and it still is some. There were times as the article points out that when Wilson is forced to stay in the pocket by teams with good Front-7's that he struggled some. He obviously does his best when the play breaks down and he is asked to improvise and run around.

Now for them ranking Wilson tied for 8th not exactly sure how this is the experts saying the Wilson is a horrible quarterback. I mean the top-4 guys most likely are HOF bound. The 5th guy is one of the most talked about kids coming out of college in years for his ability and for the most part has done a very good job living up to the hype on a very bad team. The 6th guy on the list finished top-5 in almost every category possible for a quarterback this past season and has been a top-5 guy most of his career. The 6th guy has 2 Super Bowl wins and although has had a couple of down years has had very little talent around him or if he did have talent it got injured.

So not sure why having those 7 guys ahead of him is some huge insult at this point. Yes you could argue him being tied with Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, and Tony Romo that he shouldn't be but all of those guys have produced great stats and even a few playoff wins. They have been doing it longer helping build up a little more respect around the league that they will consistently be the players they have shown.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

i was a kid then maybe 26 and didnt know who Unitas was. ESPN wasnt like it is now plus worked 80 hr weeks

I never saw him when he played. Just my opinion on what I've heard, read and old film clips.