Game Thread: Week 16: Vikings vs Seahawks:

[Screamin12th]

Trade DK to the Bucs.

Seahawks out gained the Vikings as the defense held them to under 300 total yards. They just couldnt convert 3rd downs on offense and had 2 turn overs to 0.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah he’s fine as a backup to keep around, but he’s wanting to be a starter now and wants starter money, that’s the problem

The question is "who will be the starter?"

 

[Anointed One]

12 runs called in the huddle compared to 45 pass plays called in the huddle is a problem... When Geno's getting hit, hurried, sacked because of so many drop backs - run the ball... One play we don't get the luxury of using due to our offensive scheme is play action pass... Not having that much of an option enables this ratio to continue with Grubbs... I'm convinced we won't win with this offensive system, regardless of who is our QB... Watching the great QB's in this league have PA as an option on a regular basis makes you think if what we're doing is the right thing to implement moving forward...

Just dropping back in shotgun almost every play is the kiss of death... When we do land a great QB, if we're going to drop him back as often as we do, he's not going to last through a season...

 

[MrS]

The question is "who will be the starter?"

Howell, crash this mfer with no survivors

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Howell, crash this mfer with no survivors

That's fine if we don't change coaches.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

The question is "who will be the starter?"

Howell or a cheap FA QB on a prove it deal

 

[MKHawk]

Howell or a cheap FA QB on a prove it deal

These don't exist, unless you're willing to burn it all to the ground with someone like Daniel Jones.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

These don't exist, unless you're willing to burn it all to the ground with someone like Daniel Jones.

There's always 1yr prove it deals with players who bet on themselves that didn't get the contract they wanted or coming off injury. Plus players who played like crap for garbage teams looking for a fresh start. Daniel Jones had chances and got paid well so he'll probably be asking for a bit more which is a hard pass. Justin Fields is a guy who hasn't gotten that big pay day, left a crap team and did well for 6 games in Pittsburg with better coaching. He's a good candidate or run with Howell since he's on a cheap contract.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

The question is "who will be the starter?"

Good question .. They’re gonna need to shop around, definitely nab a QB in the draft and roll the dice, even if this draft isn’t QB friendly, gems can still be found …

 

[flyerhawk]

Good question .. They’re gonna need to shop around, definitely nab a QB in the draft and roll the dice, even if this draft isn’t QB friendly, gems can still be found …

Well we certainly need to have someone to take over for Geno. But I question whether we are likely to find someone at Geno's level on the open market or in the draft, at least for next year.

 

[flyerhawk]

There's always 1yr prove it deals with players who bet on themselves that didn't get the contract they wanted or coming off injury. Plus players who played like crap for garbage teams looking for a fresh start. Daniel Jones had chances and got paid well so he'll probably be asking for a bit more which is a hard pass. Justin Fields is a guy who hasn't gotten that big pay day, left a crap team and did well for 6 games in Pittsburg with better coaching. He's a good candidate or run with Howell since he's on a cheap contract.

You really love Fields. There is a reason why the Steelers benched him.

I think most fans think it is a lot easier to find a decent QB than it actually is. It's how you wind up starting guys like Gardner Minshew or Jacoby Brissett or Tyord Taylor.

 

[JMR]

Tough way to see that one end, but in a way it's a mercy killing I think. The morning after, here's what's sticking with me:

• On the INT that ended the game, I am not sure that was Geno's fault. I think DK ran the wrong route. Geno clearly thought he was breaking 90 to the sideline, but DK drifted downfield. When QB and WR are not on the same page, it's almost always not the QB who screwed it up.
• The 3rd down ineptitude was just a killer. Took 6 tries to convert 1, and it didn't come until the 2nd half when Charbs miraculously got positive yards on a pass to the flat.
• Woolen was a huge liability in this game once again. His flawed "use my catchup speed" strategy backfired big time on the long TD to Jefferson. I'm just done with that dude.
• On the flip side of that, I continue to like what I see from AJ Barner. He is the hard-nosed player that Macdonald professes to like, so it was cool to see him haul in the almost-game-winning-TD. He did commit a dumb penalty, but he made up for it immediately by a manly 9 yard gain on 2nd & 15.
• I wonder about K9's future in this offense. He had a couple decent runs at the beginning of the game and seemed to focus more on n/s running and less dancing, but then he's hurt once again. It doesn't seem like we lose a whole lot when he's not in there and it's just Charbs & McIntosh. Walker is getting < 4ypc this year and is proving to have durability issues. How do you make a guy like that a focal point of your offense.
• Taking the sack on the series that ended with a failed 60 yard FG try was an absolute killer. That was the 2nd of 3 huge mistakes involving Geno in this game.
• About that 60 yarder.... announcers said there was a slight breeze favoring the kicking direction. JM has a decent leg, but that's still a long way. I cannot remember what the distance was to pick up the line to gain, but I think it was 8 or 9 yards? Tough call, and I can't criticize Mac too much for kicking. We did still end up getting the ball back with 55 seconds left and only needing 3 points to tie, so that's not a terrible worst case. With how mistake-prone and inept this offense tends to be, I definitely understand it. If you have prime Russell Wilson, maybe you go for it there. We don't have that any longer.

I think almost all of us (or maybe all) can agree we have a limit on how far this team can go in the current setup, mainly focusing on the QB/offense. We are just good enough to beat most of the bad teams we play, but we always make mistakes and get fall short against playoff level teams. We cannot get over that hump until we get better at QB or demonstrably better on OL (as a group, they had a decent game yesterday). The problem, of course, is you can't just go to the QB store in the off-season and get what you need. I'm ok with moving on from Geno after 2 more games (or even before), but I am not confident it won't get worse before it gets better.

But this season is almost certainly at a merciful end in 2 weeks. There may be some convoluted way we can take the div from the Rams if we somehow beat them in week 18 and find ourselves on the positive side of a tie-breaker, but I think I've had enough torture for now and look forward to getting a break from watching this team.

 

[flyerhawk]

Tough way to see that one end, but in a way it's a mercy killing I think. The morning after, here's what's sticking with me:

• On the INT that ended the game, I am not sure that was Geno's fault. I think DK ran the wrong route. Geno clearly thought he was breaking 90 to the sideline, but DK drifted downfield. When QB and WR are not on the same page, it's almost always not the QB who screwed it up.
• The 3rd down ineptitude was just a killer. Took 6 tries to convert 1, and it didn't come until the 2nd half when Charbs miraculously got positive yards on a pass to the flat.
• Woolen was a huge liability in this game once again. His flawed "use my catchup speed" strategy backfired big time on the long TD to Jefferson. I'm just done with that dude.
• On the flip side of that, I continue to like what I see from AJ Barner. He is the hard-nosed player that Macdonald professes to like, so it was cool to see him haul in the almost-game-winning-TD. He did commit a dumb penalty, but he made up for it immediately by a manly 9 yard gain on 2nd & 15.
• I wonder about K9's future in this offense. He had a couple decent runs at the beginning of the game and seemed to focus more on n/s running and less dancing, but then he's hurt once again. It doesn't seem like we lose a whole lot when he's not in there and it's just Charbs & McIntosh. Walker is getting < 4ypc this year and is proving to have durability issues. How do you make a guy like that a focal point of your offense.
• Taking the sack on the series that ended with a failed 60 yard FG try was an absolute killer. That was the 2nd of 3 huge mistakes involving Geno in this game.
• About that 60 yarder.... announcers said there was a slight breeze favoring the kicking direction. JM has a decent leg, but that's still a long way. I cannot remember what the distance was to pick up the line to gain, but I think it was 8 or 9 yards? Tough call, and I can't criticize Mac too much for kicking. We did still end up getting the ball back with 55 seconds left and only needing 3 points to tie, so that's not a terrible worst case. With how mistake-prone and inept this offense tends to be, I definitely understand it. If you have prime Russell Wilson, maybe you go for it there. We don't have that any longer.

I think almost all of us (or maybe all) can agree we have a limit on how far this team can go in the current setup, mainly focusing on the QB/offense. We are just good enough to beat most of the bad teams we play, but we always make mistakes and get fall short against playoff level teams. We cannot get over that hump until we get better at QB or demonstrably better on OL (as a group, they had a decent game yesterday). The problem, of course, is you can't just go to the QB store in the off-season and get what you need. I'm ok with moving on from Geno after 2 more games (or even before), but I am not confident it won't get worse before it gets better.

But this season is almost certainly at a merciful end in 2 weeks. There may be some convoluted way we can take the div from the Rams if we somehow beat them in week 18 and find ourselves on the positive side of a tie-breaker, but I think I've had enough torture for now and look forward to getting a break from watching this team.

Yeah. I do think we have to take a long hard look at some players. But ultimately if JS won't put some serious effort into fixing the interior line, I'm not sure whether it will make any difference. It's been far too long that our OL has been an anchor for the entire team.

On the plus side, the DL has most certainly gone from liability to positive.

If we could move K9 for something meaningful draftwise I would do it. But I doubt we can given his injury history.

Woolen isn't a free agent until 2026 so I would be surprised to see him not on the team. Maybe some other team will trade for him. He's a frustrating player because he makes a lot of plays but he also makes some poor decisions, particularly on zone coverage.

While I want this team to win every game, I'm not terribly upset about how the season has played out. I doubt many of us saw this as a 12 win team.

Fix the OL. Bolster the D and I think we could be a pretty darn good team.

I sitll have no idea what we do at QB. Geno is a frustrating QB. But I have no idea what other QB we could bring in that could realistically supplant him. Darnold is going to be expensive and risky. Fields has shown me nothing that suggests he could be an NFL QB. Unless we can lucky again with a 3rd rounder, I just don't see a good replacement.

 

[flyerhawk]

Tough way to see that one end, but in a way it's a mercy killing I think. The morning after, here's what's sticking with me:

• Woolen was a huge liability in this game once again. His flawed "use my catchup speed" strategy backfired big time on the long TD to Jefferson. I'm just done with that dude.

After rewatching that play, I think Woolen is getting blamed by fans but It's pretty clear that Love was late. They were playing Cover 2, and Woolen is CLEARLY keeping his eyes on Darnold as he is supposed to be covering the underneath stuff. Woolen's closing speed gets him back towards Jefferson but that really wasn't his man.

The whole point of a Cover 2 is you don't get beat by those plays because the safety will cover it. Love was either very late or took a really bad angle to the receiver as Jefferson was behind him by the time Love got there.

 

[fknhippie]

Sam is available after this season.

 

[JMR]

Sam is available after this season.

Yeah, tracking. Will be interesting to see how Minn plays that. You almost never see NFL teams letting above average starting QBs leave, but they have a high draft pick investment on the roster already. Do you take risk and turn it over to the unproven youngster that you picked so early, or pay the more sure thing and have big resources tied up into 2 roster spots where you only play 1 at a time?

 

[JMR]

Yeah. I do think we have to take a long hard look at some players. But ultimately if JS won't put some serious effort into fixing the interior line, I'm not sure whether it will make any difference. It's been far too long that our OL has been an anchor for the entire team.

I hear you, but Geno is not the long term answer at QB. He won't be here in 3 seasons. Maybe not even 3 games. So although the OL might be the biggest limiting factor right now on the whole, we know QB must be addressed. And given that those players may take a couple years to develop, you shouldn't wait until you absolutely need one before you draft one and be forced to throw them to the wolves right away. We need to start some serious effort on long term QB searching. Probably a year past due on that because I can't think that our 2026 starter will be someone who is on the team right now.

On the plus side, the DL has most certainly gone from liability to positive.

If we could move K9 for something meaningful draftwise I would do it. But I doubt we can given his injury history.

Woolen isn't a free agent until 2026 so I would be surprised to see him not on the team.

Yeah, tracking. Those guys are cheap, so no reason to cut them before the contracts are up unless they commit something egregious off the field. But reducing the roles is not out of the question. I like that Woolen didn't play the first defensive series yesterday, and I hope they continue to scale him back. He does make some plays, but he's unwilling to stick his nose in there and be aggressive.

I sitll have no idea what we do at QB. Geno is a frustrating QB. But I have no idea what other QB we could bring in that could realistically supplant him. Darnold is going to be expensive and risky. Fields has shown me nothing that suggests he could be an NFL QB. Unless we can lucky again with a 3rd rounder, I just don't see a good replacement.

Right, no clear but better option available right now. But I don't think that means we are shoe-horned into running it back next season and paying him the $38M cap hit.

 

[flyerhawk]

Right, no clear but better option available right now. But I don't think that means we are shoe-horned into running it back next season and paying him the $38M cap hit.

No way we pay him $38 million next year. I imagine he will restructure, get another year with maybe a voidable.

I won't say I'm completely out on Howell but he certainly didn't show any sort of poise or confidence in his limited playing time.

As for drafting a QB, there aren't a lot of great options there either. Milroe, Ewers, and Gabriel all carry big question marks. I'm fine with drafting one if they think they can make it work but it would definitely be more of a project that almost guarantee 2 more years of Geno.

 

[Screamin12th]

After rewatching that play, I think Woolen is getting blamed by fans but It's pretty clear that Love was late. They were playing Cover 2, and Woolen is CLEARLY keeping his eyes on Darnold as he is supposed to be covering the underneath stuff. Woolen's closing speed gets him back towards Jefferson but that really wasn't his man.

The whole point of a Cover 2 is you don't get beat by those plays because the safety will cover it. Love was either very late or took a really bad angle to the receiver as Jefferson was behind him by the time Love got there.

You are correct Babs said its a High low scheme and Woolens job is to make the QB have to throw it OVER him in trail mode giving the safety time to get over there and break it up or snag a pick. Love was late on his rotation, which sucks because he has played very well most of the season. Something made Love take to long to rotate. Those are typically those INT's you see by the safety flying over to the sideline but this time either Sam threw the 100% perfect pass or Love was Way late on his rotation.

 

[JMR]

No way we pay him $38 million next year. I imagine he will restructure, get another year with maybe a voidable.

In real money, he's due $28M. The additional $10M cap hit is the prorated SB. I realize you probably already know that, just throwing it out there for clarification. If we do re-structure to keep him here 1 or 2 more years, it might be the "safe" play with no other better options readily available, but I also feel we are just kicking the can down the road if we do that.

I won't say I'm completely out on Howell but he certainly didn't show any sort of poise or confidence in his limited playing time.

We shouldn't shift our opinion a whole lot on Howell based on being thrown into the game cold. It was also a game where we were clearly outmatched nearly everywhere on the field. He certainly might not be any kind of answer at QB. Might not even be an upgrade over Geno. But I wanna see a normal game situation a few times with this team before making that call.

As for drafting a QB, there aren't a lot of great options there either. Milroe, Ewers, and Gabriel all carry big question marks. I'm fine with drafting one if they think they can make it work but it would definitely be more of a project that almost guarantee 2 more years of Geno.

How long will it take to fix the OL? 2 more years? If that's the case, we're in the window now to find the long term QB. By the time the OL is average, the QB will be ready to go. If we wait to get the QB until the OL is better, we'll then be waiting again for the QB to grow into their skin in the NFL. I am not going to squabble over names, but it's time to get aggressive on finding a long term QB.