Free agent targets Offseason Armchair GM Thread

[23sharks]

I would trade Marleau & Pavs or Marleau & a pick.

Trade Marleau and Pavs for Nash?? No way. Not unless they could somehow sign Parise too.
Sharks had problems scoring, and you'd be getting rid of 60+ goals between the 2 guys. I'm sure Nash would score 40, but who is gonna come in and make up the difference.
I wouldn't include Pavs in a deal for Nash. I just think he brings a lot to the table. I'm not ready to trade him after 1 shitty series. If we based it off the St Louis series, I'd trade all but about 5 or 6 guys. LOL.

 

[sjrules99]

I'm not seeing much of any kind of reward when it comes to that guy. He's completely lost and useless out there. Parties all the time (see his twitter feed). Sucks at the hockey. His head just must not be into it. If I see it, I'd hope management/scouts would be able to tell Dougie the same. I pray.

I somewhat disagree. Galiardi is still quite young showed real potential early in his career. Granted, he was god awful last year after coming here, but I think part of that was him, and part was the coaching staff throwing him in a bad situation with craptastic moore and super mitchell. I would throw him a one year QO (around 850k), which I bet he would sign given his last two seasons, and then work with him. He's a little spark plug with a nice scoring touch, but he just needs to find it. Its a no-risk situation and if he can rediscover the galiardi from two years ago, it'd be a solid top 9 forward for the price of a #13 forward. If not, then he can be an injury sub in for an appropriate price. I'm not ready to write him off yet, and with a full training camp, I think he could be a gem here. Worth a shot...

 

[sjrules99]

Trade Marleau and Pavs for Nash?? No way. Not unless they could somehow sign Parise too.
Sharks had problems scoring, and you'd be getting rid of 60+ goals between the 2 guys. I'm sure Nash would score 40, but who is gonna come in and make up the difference.
I wouldn't include Pavs in a deal for Nash. I just think he brings a lot to the table. I'm not ready to trade him after 1 shitty series. If we based it off the St Louis series, I'd trade all but about 5 or 6 guys. LOL.

Agreed on the no thanks to that one. Marleau straight up or marleau+nemo is fine, maybe even marleau+nemo+demers but pavs should stay unless its an unreal offer. The reason is that he is a 30-30 guy signed for 4M. That's way under value and he's just 27, right in his prime. Those kind of deals are extremely rare now. Hell, David Jones got the same deal and pavs is vastly superior. Gotta keep those good deals as best as possible.

Patty can go, though

 

[23sharks]

Agreed on the no thanks to that one. Marleau straight up or marleau+nemo is fine, maybe even marleau+nemo+demers but pavs should stay unless its an unreal offer. The reason is that he is a 30-30 guy signed for 4M. That's way under value and he's just 27, right in his prime. Those kind of deals are extremely rare now. Hell, David Jones got the same deal and pavs is vastly superior. Gotta keep those good deals as best as possible.

Patty can go, though

Rules, great call on Pavs, I totally agree.
Patty gets a lot of the blame placed on him when they bow out like this, and some of it is definitely justified. But I really don't think he is the problem. Problem was their 3rd line was awful, and their PK was even worse. If, big if, they didn't have those problems, we would have seen a different result. With that being said, it may be time for Patty to go. One of those situations where it's the best thing for the player and the team. But I would not just give him away, like some people have suggested. It would have to be for a good player in return.

 

[RaiderZar]

Rules, great call on Pavs, I totally agree.
Patty gets a lot of the blame placed on him when they bow out like this, and some of it is definitely justified. But I really don't think he is the problem. Problem was their 3rd line was awful, and their PK was even worse. If, big if, they didn't have those problems, we would have seen a different result. With that being said, it may be time for Patty to go. One of those situations where it's the best thing for the player and the team. But I would not just give him away, like some people have suggested. It would have to be for a good player in return.

If Howson is going to trade with the highest bidder, I would rather 'over-pay' by including Pavs, rather than not having it done at all. Of course, I doubt Patsy would waive the NMC to go to bum-fuck Ohio. I would prefer Nemo go too, but that probably isn't going to get the deal done.

 

[SJVP408]

Regarding Galiardi, I'm with Korky and sjrules and would like to see TJ signed up for a full season with stable linemates. He's fast and is willing to go hard every shift. I'd expect him to sign for about 800K-900K and should be a better option than Fairy-oh or McCarthy. If he can pot about 10-12 goals while remaining feisty, I'd call it a successful year. He's also a bit of a chatterbox on the ice so that's a good thing considering the team as a whole is rather subdued. As long as Doug doesn't do something stupid and give him Torrey Mitchell money, TJ should be a solid, minor role player.

Galiardi-Desjardin-Wingels has potential to be an irritating energy line.

 

[filosofy29]

Didn't hear the interview, but not impressed. History has now proven, Dougie is good at the offseason tough talk. Blah, blah, blah, way to be a politican. Talk tough, blame other people, take no accountability yourself, and pander to your constituents.

Guess what, when year over year you face the same issues of passive play, too many passive players, not integrating them properly, and to much player turn over, which of your own admission are issues. Those are ALL ultimatley the responsability of management to execute on and/or resolve. That's not a player issue anymore (you know what you have), that is a lack of willingness and/or ability to make the necessary changes by management.

How about take a look in the mirror Dougie... That's a good place to start.

Agree this year, he doesn't seem to take a lot of blame. That said, in years past, DWil has put a lot of the blame on his shoulders. He seems to be blaming Todd a ton this year. I think both of their contracts are up (I could be dead wrong though) after this year.....maybe this is the swan song of these two and they're feeling the heat.

Couldn't agree more with your middle paragraph. DWil keeps making changes to all of the surrounding pieces when the problem is with 2 people in the "Core". If you want a team that sticks up for each other and is aggressive, how can you have two passive, ho-hums at the top of the salary chain and are considered leaders (the current and past Captains)? You want to watch BS, pussy antics? Watch Thornton/Marleau when someone like Pavelski or Couture get pummeled in front of the net after the goalie freezes the puck. BOTH of them turn away and pretend like they didn't see it/didn't want to get involved. That type of leadership trickles down to the others. Guys like Clowe and Boyle get tired of laying it all on the line, caring and doing all the heavy lifting and think "if they don't give an F, why should I"? This is why you see such inconsistency with the Sharks play. Sometimes they come out prepared, sometimes you have to check for a pulse. Look at the past two Captains of this team and there's no doubt in my mind why the team plays like it does. When was the last time any of you remember either of those guys laying out on the ice and blocking a shot? Seriously when??? They're not bought in enough to do what it takes to win. Keep changing the people around them and the same types of heartbreak will happen again. If Thornton AND Marleau are still Sharks at the start of the 2012-2013 season, I'll still watch and root for them, but I'll know that my favorite team has ZERO shot at winning the Stanley Cup. If one of them is gone, I'll hold out a little hope if they are filled with a decent piece or pieces. If both of them are gone, I'll know the playoffs are a long shot, but I'll be a happy, happy guy.

Don't look in the mirror Dougie, look at what's on the ice.....it's time to part ways with Thornton and Marleau. BOTH. Teams that are winning it all are teams that play with passion and make it as hard as possible to play against for 60 minutes. The Sharks come up empty in both facets. For the same price, think of how much better you'd feel come playoff time if this team could magically trade out Thornton and Marleau for Parise and Doan (assuming no other changes)???

 

[RaiderZar]

Agree this year, he doesn't seem to take a lot of blame. That said, in years past, DWil has put a lot of the blame on his shoulders. He seems to be blaming Todd a ton this year. I think both of their contracts are up (I could be dead wrong though) after this year.....maybe this is the swan song of these two and they're feeling the heat.

Couldn't agree more with your middle paragraph. DWil keeps making changes to all of the surrounding pieces when the problem is with 2 people in the "Core". If you want a team that sticks up for each other and is aggressive, how can you have two passive, ho-hums at the top of the salary chain and are considered leaders (the current and past Captains)? You want to watch BS, pussy antics? Watch Thornton/Marleau when someone like Pavelski or Couture get pummeled in front of the net after the goalie freezes the puck. BOTH of them turn away and pretend like they didn't see it/didn't want to get involved. That type of leadership trickles down to the others. Guys like Clowe and Boyle get tired of laying it all on the line, caring and doing all the heavy lifting and think "if they don't give an F, why should I"? This is why you see such inconsistency with the Sharks play. Sometimes they come out prepared, sometimes you have to check for a pulse. Look at the past two Captains of this team and there's no doubt in my mind why the team plays like it does. When was the last time any of you remember either of those guys laying out on the ice and blocking a shot? Seriously when??? They're not bought in enough to do what it takes to win. Keep changing the people around them and the same types of heartbreak will happen again. If Thornton AND Marleau are still Sharks at the start of the 2012-2013 season, I'll still watch and root for them, but I'll know that my favorite team has ZERO shot at winning the Stanley Cup. If one of them is gone, I'll hold out a little hope if they are filled with a decent piece or pieces. If both of them are gone, I'll know the playoffs are a long shot, but I'll be a happy, happy guy.

Don't look in the mirror Dougie, look at what's on the ice.....it's time to part ways with Thornton and Marleau. BOTH. Teams that are winning it all are teams that play with passion and make it as hard as possible to play against for 60 minutes. The Sharks come up empty in both facets. For the same price, think of how much better you'd feel come playoff time if this team could magically trade out Thornton and Marleau for Parise and Doan (assuming no other changes)???

A-fucking-MEN!

 

[SJVP408]

Good take filo. My only hope is that the urgency to win is realized as PattyJo creep closer to the end of their careers.

 

[Stackem]

Agree this year, he doesn't seem to take a lot of blame. That said, in years past, DWil has put a lot of the blame on his shoulders. He seems to be blaming Todd a ton this year. I think both of their contracts are up (I could be dead wrong though) after this year.....maybe this is the swan song of these two and they're feeling the heat.

Couldn't agree more with your middle paragraph. DWil keeps making changes to all of the surrounding pieces when the problem is with 2 people in the "Core". If you want a team that sticks up for each other and is aggressive, how can you have two passive, ho-hums at the top of the salary chain and are considered leaders (the current and past Captains)? You want to watch BS, pussy antics? Watch Thornton/Marleau when someone like Pavelski or Couture get pummeled in front of the net after the goalie freezes the puck. BOTH of them turn away and pretend like they didn't see it/didn't want to get involved. That type of leadership trickles down to the others. Guys like Clowe and Boyle get tired of laying it all on the line, caring and doing all the heavy lifting and think "if they don't give an F, why should I"? This is why you see such inconsistency with the Sharks play. Sometimes they come out prepared, sometimes you have to check for a pulse. Look at the past two Captains of this team and there's no doubt in my mind why the team plays like it does. When was the last time any of you remember either of those guys laying out on the ice and blocking a shot? Seriously when??? They're not bought in enough to do what it takes to win. Keep changing the people around them and the same types of heartbreak will happen again. If Thornton AND Marleau are still Sharks at the start of the 2012-2013 season, I'll still watch and root for them, but I'll know that my favorite team has ZERO shot at winning the Stanley Cup. If one of them is gone, I'll hold out a little hope if they are filled with a decent piece or pieces. If both of them are gone, I'll know the playoffs are a long shot, but I'll be a happy, happy guy.

Don't look in the mirror Dougie, look at what's on the ice.....it's time to part ways with Thornton and Marleau. BOTH. Teams that are winning it all are teams that play with passion and make it as hard as possible to play against for 60 minutes. The Sharks come up empty in both facets. For the same price, think of how much better you'd feel come playoff time if this team could magically trade out Thornton and Marleau for Parise and Doan (assuming no other changes)???

Haha.. Yea, great post. Agreed across all points. I think you and I are pretty much in the same place, ready for a rebuild or engine swap out on a car that just aint gonna win it. Neither of which will happen, so, time to drink the next two seasons away and hope for the best down the road somewhere. lol....

cheers...

 

[Cbrower91]

Agree this year, he doesn't seem to take a lot of blame. That said, in years past, DWil has put a lot of the blame on his shoulders. He seems to be blaming Todd a ton this year. I think both of their contracts are up (I could be dead wrong though) after this year.....maybe this is the swan song of these two and they're feeling the heat.

Couldn't agree more with your middle paragraph. DWil keeps making changes to all of the surrounding pieces when the problem is with 2 people in the "Core". If you want a team that sticks up for each other and is aggressive, how can you have two passive, ho-hums at the top of the salary chain and are considered leaders (the current and past Captains)? You want to watch BS, pussy antics? Watch Thornton/Marleau when someone like Pavelski or Couture get pummeled in front of the net after the goalie freezes the puck. BOTH of them turn away and pretend like they didn't see it/didn't want to get involved. That type of leadership trickles down to the others. Guys like Clowe and Boyle get tired of laying it all on the line, caring and doing all the heavy lifting and think "if they don't give an F, why should I"? This is why you see such inconsistency with the Sharks play. Sometimes they come out prepared, sometimes you have to check for a pulse. Look at the past two Captains of this team and there's no doubt in my mind why the team plays like it does. When was the last time any of you remember either of those guys laying out on the ice and blocking a shot? Seriously when??? They're not bought in enough to do what it takes to win. Keep changing the people around them and the same types of heartbreak will happen again. If Thornton AND Marleau are still Sharks at the start of the 2012-2013 season, I'll still watch and root for them, but I'll know that my favorite team has ZERO shot at winning the Stanley Cup. If one of them is gone, I'll hold out a little hope if they are filled with a decent piece or pieces. If both of them are gone, I'll know the playoffs are a long shot, but I'll be a happy, happy guy.

Don't look in the mirror Dougie, look at what's on the ice.....it's time to part ways with Thornton and Marleau. BOTH. Teams that are winning it all are teams that play with passion and make it as hard as possible to play against for 60 minutes. The Sharks come up empty in both facets. For the same price, think of how much better you'd feel come playoff time if this team could magically trade out Thornton and Marleau for Parise and Doan (assuming no other changes)???

I agree for the most part, Thornton does get feisty on occasion but its usually when someone runs him, not when Couture gets smoked, even Heatler prevented Couture from getting killed in the Vancouver series 2 seasons ago.

So I agree they should stick up for their teammates and do some pummeling but at the sametime you cant have your top 2 forwards going to the box all the time because they need to protect their teammates honor, thats stupid. Whats wrong with Couture i dunno sticking up for himself on occasion.

How often do you see Zetterberg and Datysuk dropping the gloves because Darren Anklebiter gets smoked? Never, when have you seen Crosby or Malkin drop the gloves because Ben Lovejoy got crushed? Never.

It's good everyone is angry but some of it is way irrational lol

 

[filosofy29]

I agree for the most part, Thornton does get feisty on occasion but its usually when someone runs him, not when Couture gets smoked, even Heatler prevented Couture from getting killed in the Vancouver series 2 seasons ago.

So I agree they should stick up for their teammates and do some pummeling but at the sametime you cant have your top 2 forwards going to the box all the time because they need to protect their teammates honor, thats stupid. Whats wrong with Couture i dunno sticking up for himself on occasion.

How often do you see Zetterberg and Datysuk dropping the gloves because Darren Anklebiter gets smoked? Never, when have you seen Crosby or Malkin drop the gloves because Ben Lovejoy got crushed? Never.

It's good everyone is angry but some of it is way irrational lol

I didn't mean they had to fight, just get in the scrum and help your brother out so it's not 3-1 or 4-2 in the battle (bear hug somebody or wrestle somebody to the ground). Those types of plays never usually draw just one penalty. Usually they're just even up calls. Just stick together and stand up as a team. Neither of them go to the net regularly, stand in there and face the music or try and jam at pucks and get their noses dirty. Both of them always peel off on the forecheck instead of making a hit and giving the defense something to think about next time. When do they ever block shots? They do none of the little things well. If they at least did two of the above it would be acceptable in my eyes.....not asking them to be Tiger Williams.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I didn't mean they had to fight, just get in the scrum and help your brother out so it's not 3-1 or 4-2 in the battle (bear hug somebody or wrestle somebody to the ground). Those types of plays never usually draw just one penalty. Usually they're just even up calls. Just stick together and stand up as a team. Neither of them go to the net regularly, stand in there and face the music or try and jam at pucks and get their noses dirty. Both of them always peel off on the forecheck instead of making a hit and giving the defense something to think about next time. When do they ever block shots? They do none of the little things well. If they at least did two of the above it would be acceptable in my eyes.....not asking them to be Tiger Williams.

Down the stretch and into the PO's Marleau was one of the most physical guys on the team when it came to initiating body contact.

I think at least some of the hesitance to get into scrums comes from examples set by the coaching staff. One instance in perticular comes to mind when Clowe jumped into a fray after Couture got smoked late in the season. When Clowe got back to the bench after serving his penalty Woodcroft tore him a new one for costing the Sharks a PP in a close game. What kind of message does that send the players?

 

[23sharks]

A-fucking-MEN!

I'll second that!!!!
They just don't have the intensity and fire that other teams show. I totally agree with Filo that it starts at the top. They were the biggest team in the league, yet one of the least physical. Only a few guys seem to bring it pretty much every night.

 

[filosofy29]

Down the stretch and into the PO's Marleau was one of the most physical guys on the team when it came to initiating body contact.

I think at least some of the hesitance to get into scrums comes from examples set by the coaching staff. One instance in perticular comes to mind when Clowe jumped into a fray after Couture got smoked late in the season. When Clowe got back to the bench after serving his penalty Woodcroft tore him a new one for costing the Sharks a PP in a close game. What kind of message does that send the players?

I have mad respect for you Cmon, but you and I have two different ideas of physicality. Marleau "initiating contact" is similar to a fly landing on my arm.

Agree with the 2nd part to a tee. Baby Jay Woodcroft should go back to watching video and stay off the bench.

***Be careful not to drag this out too much though Cmon. Supposedly, in this forum, you, me and Korky ALWAYS agree and beat up on differing opinions. I wouldn't want that perception to change.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I have mad respect for you Cmon, but you and I have two different ideas of physicality. Marleau "initiating contact" is similar to a fly landing on my arm.

Agree with the 2nd part to a tee. Baby Jay Woodcroft should go back to watching video and stay off the bench.

***Be careful not to drag this out too much though Cmon. Supposedly, in this forum, you, me and Korky ALWAYS agree and beat up on differing opinions. I wouldn't want that perception to change.

I'm sorry but Marleau was playing a legitmately physical game over the last 15+ of the regular season and into the PO's. A majority were solid contact hits not the obligitory light bumps after a pass was made that we are all used to seeing.

I understand what you are saying about the culture that stems from the style Thornton and Marleau play. However, I don't think their influence is so great that the team can never win with them though. What is says to me is Doug needs to add a strong willed player, another vet leader, who is the polar opposite. Someone who won't succumb to Thornton or Marleau's influences but instead is strong enough to influence them.

If I'm Doug Wilson my primary target this offseason is Shane Doan. Right behind that is adding one or two more forwards who are overtly physical and can contribute to the offense at a significant level. I'm talking a Steve Ott, Cal Clutterbuck, or Troy Brower type player. Players like these can change the on ice culture of the team.

 

[23sharks]

I'm sorry but Marleau was playing a legitmately physical game over the last 15+ of the regular season and into the PO's. A majority were solid contact hits not the obligitory light bumps after a pass was made that we are all used to seeing.

I understand what you are saying about the culture that stems from the style Thornton and Marleau play. However, I don't think their influence is so great that the team can never win with them though. What is says to me is Doug needs to add a strong willed player, another vet leader, who is the polar opposite. Someone who won't succumb to Thornton or Marleau's influences but instead is strong enough to influence them.

If I'm Doug Wilson my primary target this offseason is Shane Doan. Right behind that is adding one or two more forwards who are overtly physical and can contribute to the offense at a significant level. I'm talking a Steve Ott, Cal Clutterbuck, or Troy Brower type player. Players like these can change the on ice culture of the team.

I'd love to add any of the players you mentioned to the team. They would definitely help in the toughness department.
Joe is an absolute beast the rare times he gets pissed off. He can completely take over a game. But it only happens once in a while. Wish he could harness that and play that way more often.
Patty was hitting more in the playoffs last season, but he's never been that type of player either.
I don't want them running around like maniacs just hitting people, but they both have the size to bring more physicality. Someone hits you, hit them back. Someone knocks your teammate down in a scrum, put him on his ass. I definitely do not see enough of that on the team.

 

[Cbrower91]

You used to be able to tell when marleau was in a game on his first shift if he went out and crushed a guy into the boards, that really hasnt changed much. I think he has been a little more shy about since his shoulder injury but he still puts on big hits.

 

[Cbrower91]

[YOUTUBE]?v=OzyHHorFKIY&feature=autoplay&list=PL0A2274B03CCBC815&playnext=2[/YOUTUBE]

Marleau hits and hard

 

[Cbrower91]

[YOUTUBE]?v=98rM0naG94s[/YOUTUBE]