Game Thread: 49ers vs Broncos

[Pattersonca65]

I doubt that. I don't see those guys get rattled the way Kaep does.

You can disagree all you want, but my view is simply that both the line sucked and that Kaep sucked. I've seen plenty of excuses being made for Kaepernick and I'm getting tired of it. Yes, the line could have been better, but I expect a "franchise QB" to do better with what he has. The reason he isn't considered elite at this point in his career has nothing to do with his line or his weapons.

Sick posted a video on the NFL board that showed Kaep with decent protection and just flat-out not seeing a wide-open Vernon Davis that could have gone for a touchdown. That had nothing to do with his bad offensive line.

I respect your opinion. That is what makes it interesting. Who is talking elite at this point? I am not going to excuse kap for everything but the pass protection was atrocious and that isn't an excuse. I've seen some poor play by Brady when his line play was bad. I've seen that video. Yea, he could have passed it. When he dropped back he saw no one in front of him. Hell, I could have probably picked up 20 yards on my old creeky knees there. We all know he is not a pure pocket passer.

 

[Montalban]

I wasn't talking just about this game. I was speaking generally about Kap. I've never seen him throw off the back foot under pressure in the pocket. It looks like he'll need to figure that out if we're going to have success this year.

My advice; don't hold your breath

 

[Xponentialchaos]

I respect your opinion. That is what makes it interesting. Who is talking elite at this point? I am not going to excuse kap for everything but the pass protection was atrocious and that isn't an excuse. I've seen some poor play by Brady when his line play was bad. I've seen that video. Yea, he could have passed it. When he dropped back he saw no one in front of him. Hell, I could have probably picked up 20 yards on my old creeky knees there. We all know he is not a pure pocket passer.

I was trying to be nice about him when I said he isn't elite. Replace "elite" with "competent" and you have my opinion.

There are several reasons why Brady is considered a better quarterback than Kaep. The offensive line is not anywhere near the top of that list.

 

[Pattersonca65]

I was trying to be nice about him when I said he isn't elite. Replace "elite" with "competent" and you have my opinion.

There are several reasons why Brady is considered a better quarterback than Kaep. The offensive line is not anywhere near the top of that list.

I am not comparing Kap to Brady in terms of overall ability. I was merely pointing out when oline play is bad, it affects the QB. If the oline pass protection is decent and Kap falters than I will say he's awful. But if the oline is going to look like it did during the preseason, especially the Denver game, than I wouldn't blame him or any other QB for failing under the circumstances.

BTW, I am glad to see you and others posting here more. It was quite dead around here during the offseason.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

I am not comparing Kap to Brady in terms of overall ability. I was merely pointing out when oline play is bad, it affects the QB. If the oline pass protection is decent and Kap falters than I will say he's awful. But if the oline is going to look like it did during the preseason, especially the Denver game, than I wouldn't blame him or any other QB for failing under the circumstances.

BTW, I am glad to see you and others posting here more. It was quite dead around here during the offseason.

Everyone understands that the oline affects the QB.

My issue is with how little Kaepernick is getting criticized for consistently being mediocre. Bad receivers, bad line, bad offensive coordinator, etc. I've heard it all. Sure we'll throw everyone else under the bus, but not him. I've seen way too many excuses made for him, and yes, they do contribute to his lack of success. But it's like people around here think we have an amazing QB if not for the terrible line.

The biggest reason for his incompetence is simply HIM. That point is simply not being addressed. He's not a good QB. Period.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Preseason Game 1:

Kaep: 1 completion, 3 attempts, 14 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 49.3 Passer Rating
Gabbert: 8 completions, 11 attempts, 86 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 125.6 Passer Rating

Preseason Game 2:

Kaep: 2 completions, 5 attempts, 13 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 47.9 Passer Rating
Gabbert: 6 completions, 6 attempts, 21 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 81.2 Passer Rating

Preseason Game 3:

Kaep: 2 completions, 5 attempts, 13 yards, 0, TD, 0 INT, 47.9 Passer Rating
Gabbert: 9 completions, 11 attempts, 96 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 103.0 Passer Rating


Look at this! What exactly has he done this preseason to inspire confidence to be above criticism? He's playing like shit and he's consistent at it. Are we going to blame all of this on the offensive line? Because I'm not.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Everyone understands that the oline affects the QB.

My issue is with how little Kaepernick is getting criticized for consistently being mediocre. Bad receivers, bad line, bad offensive coordinator, etc. I've heard it all. Sure we'll throw everyone else under the bus, but not him. I've seen way too many excuses made for him, and yes, they do contribute to his lack of success. But it's like people around here think we have an amazing QB if not for the terrible line.

The biggest reason for his incompetence is simply HIM. That point is simply not being addressed. He's not a good QB. Period.

I see this as either or. Who here is saying Kap is an amazing QB? It is very little. Again, not saying he is elite. He was pressured a league worst 55% of his throws during preseason. It doesn't get much worse than that. And as far as those posted stats go. He only played one series the first game and a couple of series the second game so I am not sure what anyone would get from taking three attempts the whole game. We just see things a bit differently so I am not going to argue the point any further

 

[Xponentialchaos]

I see this as either or. Who here is saying Kap is an amazing QB? It is very little. Again, not saying he is elite. He was pressured a league worst 55% of his throws during preseason. It doesn't get much worse than that. And as far as those posted stats go. He only played one series the first game and a couple of series the second game so I am not sure what anyone would get from taking three attempts the whole game. We just see things a bit differently so I am not going to argue the point any further

I'd agree with your assessment of the first game if the pattern had not become abundantly clear: he's not playing well. It seems almost taboo to say such a thing about our quarterback around here, but it's true. He's playing like shit and there are way too many excuses flying around trying to justify it.

I'm not going to blame him when he drops back and has 0 chance to do anything. I'm saying that he's not doing well with what he has had to work with. I don't care that he's getting pressured 55% of the time. He has not done anything particularly well, including during the other 45% of the time. He gets rattled way too easily in the pocket, he doesn't have touch on his throws, he's not seeing wide open receivers, he doesn't know his hot reads when he's backed up in his own end zone, and he STILL can't seem to locate the play clock.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Preseason Game 1:

Kaep: 1 completion, 3 attempts, 14 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 49.3 Passer Rating
Gabbert: 8 completions, 11 attempts, 86 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 125.6 Passer Rating

Preseason Game 2:

Kaep: 2 completions, 5 attempts, 13 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 47.9 Passer Rating
Gabbert: 6 completions, 6 attempts, 21 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 81.2 Passer Rating

Preseason Game 3:

Kaep: 2 completions, 5 attempts, 13 yards, 0, TD, 0 INT, 47.9 Passer Rating
Gabbert: 9 completions, 11 attempts, 96 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 103.0 Passer Rating


Look at this! What exactly has he done this preseason to inspire confidence to be above criticism? He's playing like shit and he's consistent at it. Are we going to blame all of this on the offensive line? Because I'm not.

He's posted a remarkably consistent rating through three games at least....

I don't think it's fair to compare him to Gabbert. They're playing with and against a completely different caliber of player. Preseason numbers in general mean next to nothing. I don't think anyone would suggest that Jarryd Hayne should be our starting RB, for instance, even though the numbers would support that position.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

He's posted a remarkably consistent rating through three games at least....

I don't think it's fair to compare him to Gabbert. They're playing with and against a completely different caliber of player. Preseason numbers in general mean next to nothing. I don't think anyone would suggest that Jarryd Hayne should be our starting RB, for instance, even though the numbers would support that position.

Yes and no.

Hyde has an average of 5.6 yards per carry. Hayne has an average of 7.8 yards per carry. Now, of course it's apples to oranges in terms of who they are playing with and against so we can't compare them directly with what they have done on the field. But if both players had plenty of playing time and Hyde had a 0.5 average versus the 7.8 average of Hayne, I think people would at least start to question Hyde's starting role on this team.

Similarly, Kaep's numbers and Gabbert's numbers don't necessarily suggest that Gabbert is the better QB. But with the vast difference we're seeing here, I'd say that we should at least consider that Gabbert may be the better player.

At the very least, I was hoping to show that Kaep's numbers have consistently been poor this preseason. He deserves much more criticism than he has received. It's like it's taboo to criticize your team's starting QB or something.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Yes and no.

Hyde has an average of 5.6 yards per carry. Hayne has an average of 7.8 yards per carry. Now, of course it's apples to oranges in terms of who they are playing with and against so we can't compare them directly with what they have done on the field. But if both players had plenty of playing time and Hyde had a 0.5 average versus the 7.8 average of Hayne, I think people would at least start to question Hyde's starting role on this team.

Similarly, Kaep's numbers and Gabbert's numbers don't necessarily suggest that Gabbert is the better QB. But with the vast difference we're seeing here, I'd say that we should at least consider that Gabbert may be the better player.

At the very least, I was hoping to show that Kaep's numbers have consistently been poor this preseason. He deserves much more criticism than he has received. It's like it's taboo to criticize your team's starting QB or something.

I don't it is taboo to criticize Kap any more than any other player. At least here we all disagree about a number of players, not just Kap.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes and no.

Hyde has an average of 5.6 yards per carry. Hayne has an average of 7.8 yards per carry. Now, of course it's apples to oranges in terms of who they are playing with and against so we can't compare them directly with what they have done on the field. But if both players had plenty of playing time and Hyde had a 0.5 average versus the 7.8 average of Hayne, I think people would at least start to question Hyde's starting role on this team.

Similarly, Kaep's numbers and Gabbert's numbers don't necessarily suggest that Gabbert is the better QB. But with the vast difference we're seeing here, I'd say that we should at least consider that Gabbert may be the better player.

At the very least, I was hoping to show that Kaep's numbers have consistently been poor this preseason. He deserves much more criticism than he has received. It's like it's taboo to criticize your team's starting QB or something.

Just for the record, my consistent rating comment was entirely sarcastic. Kap has been awful in the preseason. We need to see tremendous improvement to have a chance this year. From him and the OL.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Just for the record, my consistent rating comment was entirely sarcastic. Kap has been awful in the preseason. We need to see tremendous improvement to have a chance this year. From him and the OL.

Interesting read. Have you seen this? It was linked to an article about Kap following RG3. In that article it said the 49er coaches were going to try and make Kap more of a pocket passer which made go ??? cause Steve Logan said the opposite that Kap would be allowed to run more and move around

49ers confident in offense despite paltry preseason numbers

 

[Xponentialchaos]

I don't it is taboo to criticize Kap any more than any other player. At least here we all disagree about a number of players, not just Kap.

I disagree. I think people are going out of their way to make excuses for Kaep's incompetence. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Just for the record, my consistent rating comment was entirely sarcastic. Kap has been awful in the preseason. We need to see tremendous improvement to have a chance this year. From him and the OL.

I know. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't definitively saying that Gabbert is better than Kaep entirely based on the preseason stats. (Though at this point, I'd prefer just about anyone else at QB, including Gabbert)

In my opinion, we have only seen marginal improvement out of Kaep throughout his career, so I'm not expecting that to happen now. Hopefully I'm wrong obviously.

 

[HighTopFade]

I used to have the same frustrations with Steve Young. Standards were a bit high after Montana. Young ended up ok. I'm not making excuses for Kaep, but hopeful he will improve.

 

[Pattersonca65]

I disagree. I think people are going out of their way to make excuses for Kaep's incompetence. But that's just my opinion.

That's two different things. Saying its taboo to talk about Kap versus saying people are making excuses for kap

 

[Xponentialchaos]

That's two different things. Saying its taboo to talk about Kap versus saying people are making excuses for kap

How do you figure? They're closely linked the way I'm seeing it.

My thoughts: people are making excuses for Kaep...because it's taboo to criticize the starting quarterback around here.

 

[Pattersonca65]

How do you figure? They're closely linked the way I'm seeing it.

My thoughts: people are making excuses for Kaep...because it's taboo to criticize the starting quarterback around here.

Saying something is taboo means you can't be critical of kap here or you will be attacked. No one here is chewing you out for your opinions. People making excuses for Kap only means they don't agree with you.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Saying something is taboo means you can't be critical of kap here or you will be attacked. No one here is chewing you out for your opinions. People making excuses for Kap only means they don't agree with you.

Where exactly are you getting that definition? I don't think I'm getting attacked at all.


Taboo

1. the system, practice, or act whereby things are set apart as sacred, forbidden for general use, or placed under a prohibition or interdiction.

dictionary.com