Game Thread: Week 18 Season Finale: Seahawks vs Rams

[Sharkonabicycle]

OK. I guess. Is there a single lineman on this team you would take over the guy on the 2005 team?

The answer is no. Cross is promising though. Take a look at my wall of text flyer, cause I think you and I are going the same way.

I mean of course pending the league at the time... I get players are bigger/stronger/faster:

I would be fine with DJ or DK.
I would be fine with Engram or Lockett.
JSN is an outlier..

I'd take Walt over Cross (although Cross I think is going to great, kid is only 24).
I'd take Hutch over any of the guards.
I'd take Gray over any of the guards.
I'd take Tobeck over any Center.
I mean Locklear meh, that's prob. a wash with a healthy Abe.

As I said, the WR position comparing at that time period? It's lopsided... for sure, mostly because of JSN. Fant could be argued if Stevens could pull his head out of his ass. Could almost argue I'd take DJ over DK because DK can't pull his head out of his ass with routes and penalties - just like STEVENS!).

Now the current Seahawks vs. the 2005 Seahawks OL is EXTREMELY LOPSIDED x 5000. So if you wanted to make Seattle a better team RIGHT NOW, would I take the equivalent of the Seahawks 2005 receiving core and OL over what we have today with Walker/Charbs behind it? Abso-fuckin' lutely. Especially with a defensive minded coach.

 

[flyerhawk]

2005 OL would have elevated geno for sure, but our current Wrs would have been elevated by hasselbeck. The fact hasselbeck got similar production out of Darrel fucking jackson as geno did with dk says everything.
Loved djack but he was very average talent wise and dropped a shit load of passes.

You realize that none of the WRs we are talking about have ever had a single Pro Bowl appearance, excluding Lockett's ST nod?

And when Hutchinson left, the offense crumbled.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

2005 OL would have elevated geno for sure, but our current Wrs would have been elevated by hasselbeck. The fact hasselbeck got similar production out of Darrel fucking jackson as geno did with dk says everything.
Loved djack but he was very average talent wise and dropped a shit load of passes.

And DK fumbles and drops stuff, can't run right routes, and has temper tantrums every other game, so what's your point? I don't see it THAT big of a difference with what they've done so far. Sure DK has the higher ceiling... but he hasn't shown to learn the fundamentals of the game (discipline and route running).

Our current WRs would've elevated Hasselbeck? Okay sure, without the OL he was behind and an offensive minded coach like Holmgren? I guess we have to disagree here because I don't see that at all.

Dunno man. You're now on a DK vs. Jackson argument and saying our current WRs would've elevated Hasselbeck, and outside of one WR (JSN who just emerged) I don't get it. Then let's not forget Geno would have a productive running game (which he did in 2022) and plenty more protection to find the same receivers we have less JSN... which is what he had in 2022 anyway. In 2022 we just sucked ass on defense.

 

[flyerhawk]

The answer is no. Cross is promising though. Take a look at my wall of text flyer, cause I think you and I are going the same way.

I mean of course pending the league at the time... I get players are bigger/stronger/faster:

I would be fine with DJ or DK.
I would be fine with Engram or Lockett.
JSN is an outlier..

I'd take Walt over Cross (although Cross I think is going to great, kid is only 24).
I'd take Hutch over any of the guards.
I'd take Gray over any of the guards.
I'd take Tobeck over any Center.
I mean Locklear meh, that's prob. a wash with a healthy Abe.

As I said, the WR position comparing at that time period? It's lopsided... for sure, mostly because of JSN. Fant could be argued if Stevens could pull his head out of his ass. Could almost argue I'd take DJ over DK because DK can't pull his head out of his ass with routes and penalties - just like STEVENS!).

Now the current Seahawks vs. the 2005 Seahawks OL is EXTREMELY LOPSIDED x 5000. So if you wanted to make Seattle a better team RIGHT NOW, would I take the equivalent of the Seahawks 2005 receiving core and OL over what we have today with Walker/Charbs behind it? Abso-fuckin' lutely. Especially with a defensive minded coach.

You could argue, and you suggested as such, that just have in prime Steve Hutchinson on this team would have had a DRAMATIC improvement on our team this year. I think some folks forget just how good that OL was, especially the left side.

Walter would go multiple SEASONS without giving up a sack.

 

[flyerhawk]

And DK fumbles and drops stuff, can't run right routes, and has temper tantrums every other game, so what's your point? I don't see it THAT big of a difference with what they've done so far. Sure DK has the higher ceiling... but he hasn't shown to learn the fundamentals of the game (discipline and route running).

Our current WRs would've elevated Hasselbeck? Okay sure, without the OL he was behind and an offensive minded coach like Holmgren? I guess we have to disagree here because I don't see that at all.

Dunno man. You're now on a DK vs. Jackson argument and saying our current WRs would've elevated Hasselbeck, and outside of one WR (JSN who just emerged) I don't get it. Then let's not forget Geno would have a productive running game (which he did in 2022) and plenty more protection to find the same receivers we have less JSN... which is what he had in 2022 anyway. In 2022 we just sucked ass on defense.

I feel like a lot of Hawks fans just don't want to recognize that Geno has been a pretty good QB on a VERY inconsistent to mediocre offense.

As I mentioned upthread the 2005 Seahawks went an entire season where they converted every single 3rd and 2 or closer. I can't find a more reason update, but I would be shocked to see it improved, but as of December 6th the Seahawks were 31st in the league converting as 23%.

If we wanted to find the single biggest culprit for the Seahawks woes this year, it would be their failures on 3rd and 4th and short.

Seahawks Searching For Answers as Short Yardage Woes Persist

Despite ranking in the top-10 in short-yardage red zone plays, the Seahawks haven't been able to consistently cash in for touchdowns. What gives?

www.si.com

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

You could argue, and you suggested as such, that just have in prime Steve Hutchinson on this team would have had a DRAMATIC improvement on our team this year. I think some folks forget just how good that OL was, especially the left side.

Walter would go multiple SEASONS without giving up a sack.

Well I was trying to extend an olive branch...

 

[WizardHawk]

I don't know if I would say the Seahawks didn't get competent QB play for most of their history. They've had their run of Mirers, Gelbaughs and McGwires in the early 90s, but overall, the team has 4 QBs starting over half the team's total games in 49 seasons. While it's true that the Hawks haven't had the success of a Packers team with an unbelievable string of quality QBs for the last 30+ years, they haven't been the Browns either (who have more starting QBs in the last 20 years than Seattle has ever had).

As far as where I have Geno in all-time list of best QBs in Seattle, I'd put him in at #4. I still have Krieg listed higher.

I'm not saying Geno is a good as we can get, but they better have a good idea of what they have if they replace him.

He's not the top, but they could do far worse if they miss on his replacement.

 

[Anointed One]

Would you take engram and jackson and jj over our current Wrs? Of course not, the talent level is extremely lopsided.

My point is that geno benefits from the talent around him too, in my opinion geno doesnt elevate those guys where hasselbeck did.

OL pretty much pave the way for every single play ran determining whether it’s going to be a productive play or not. Wide receivers do not play this kind of role. How is Chicago doing with a great wide receiver cast and a the awful offensive line?

 

[flyerhawk]

OL pretty much pave the way for every single play ran determining whether it’s going to be a productive play or not. Wide receivers do not play this kind of role. How is Chicago doing with a great wide receiver cast and a the awful offensive line?

Yeah. This is the part that I think so many people don't get.

When defenses can get consistent quick pressure with just 4 guys it creates HUGE problems. Offenses have to either come up with short route trees, which allows the defense to creep in and play tighter or they have to keep extra blockers in, which reduces the number of possible receivers which makes it harder for a QB to find the open receiver.

This is true for all players. Of course exceptional QBs can overcome this by extending their time in the pocket like Mahomes and Burrow and Jackson. But most QBs are a heavily affected by the quality of the pass protection. Just like nearly every RB is heavily affected by the by quality of the run blocking.

This really isn't controversial.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Whether Geno has the worst or the best line, he doesn't have the football IQ in the redzone. He can sling it between the 20's for lots of yards but too many RZ turnovers costed this team.

 

[flyerhawk]

Whether Geno has the worst or the best line, he doesn't have the football IQ in the redzone. He can sling it between the 20's for lots of yards but too many RZ turnovers costed this team.

The Seahawks ranked 14th in Red Zone efficiency this season. Not great but not terrible.

They ranked 28th in goal line efficiency. Which isn't surprising since they ranked 31st in 3rd and short conversions.

Imagine if that goal line efficiency improve to middle of the pack? I'd imagine our overall goal line efficiency would improve considerably.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

OL pretty much pave the way for every single play ran determining whether it’s going to be a productive play or not. Wide receivers do not play this kind of role. How is Chicago doing with a great wide receiver cast and a the awful offensive line?

Bingo, I've said for years... offensive line is dual purpose (duh obviously lol, but some people seem to forget). It helps your running AND passing game. Having an elite WR or RB is nice, a RB CAN help a passing game because they can block, and WRs CAN help a running game if they're good blockers, but then you're nullifying their bigger threat (receiving or running). And finding elite blocking RBs/WRs who are ALSO a threat in what they should be (running or passing) is VERY difficult. You're talking top 10 picks here or hitting on a Hines Ward.

OL just help both PERIOD. And I get there's OL that are better run than pass blockers, and vice versa... but their job is to block. And if you have crap blocking you're taking away the threat of your weapons. Your RBs aren't able to find as many holes or have wide open flat routes (because they have to help block or have no holes), your WRs can't really run deep routes because your QB doesn't have time unless he makes time (guys like Prime RW, Lamar Jackson, etc. help on this, but not like they grow on trees), your TEs are not a threat because they have to block so much or chip block, etc.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The Seahawks ranked 14th in Red Zone efficiency this season. Not great but not terrible.

They ranked 28th in goal line efficiency. Which isn't surprising since they ranked 31st in 3rd and short conversions.

Imagine if that goal line efficiency improve to middle of the pack? I'd imagine our overall goal line efficiency would improve considerably.

Yah and we couldn't do crap at the goal line because we can't run the ball... because the OL even in Grubb's stupid ass jumbo (use 6 OL, 3 TE) goofball shit was pathetic.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yah and we couldn't do crap at the goal line because we can't run the ball... because the OL even in Grubb's stupid ass jumbo (use 6 OL, 3 TE) goofball shit was pathetic.

The Jumbo formation was created because other formations were terrible as well. Hell he even tried Byron Murphy as a lead blocker and that didn't work.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

The Seahawks ranked 14th in Red Zone efficiency this season. Not great but not terrible.

They ranked 28th in goal line efficiency. Which isn't surprising since they ranked 31st in 3rd and short conversions.

Imagine if that goal line efficiency improve to middle of the pack? I'd imagine our overall goal line efficiency would improve considerably.

Well yes our backs would have better running lanes to score but that's not the point. Geno's IQ in the redzone is subpar and that's the point. We all agree the o-line needs upgrading.

 

[Anointed One]

The Jumbo formation was created because other formations were terrible as well. Hell he even tried Byron Murphy as a lead blocker and that didn't work.

The best Seahawks offensive play during the Rams game was the bootleg run by Geno Smith. I’m like where was that all season?

 

[Screamin12th]

The best Seahawks offensive play during the Rams game was the bootleg run by Geno Smith. I’m like where was that all season?

Geno 100% needed to run more this season instead of throwing into double and tripple coverage so much. Yes his WR bailed him out a lot but it also lead to all those INT's. Geno's biggest issue .. he locks on to ONE WR way way to often showing the Defense where he is going with the ball. THIS is his biggest issue. Locking on to one WR when "GOOD" QB's look off the defense.