• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

Top 10 Poll: #2 Player Ever

Who is the #2 player in baseball history?

  • Willie Mays

    Votes: 12 35.3%
  • Barry Bonds

    Votes: 10 29.4%
  • Cy Young

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ken Griffey Jr

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Lou Gehrig

    Votes: 2 5.9%
  • Sadaharu Oh

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ty Cobb

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Shohei Ohtani

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Rogers Hornsby

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Ted Williams

    Votes: 5 14.7%
  • Frank Robinson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rickey Henderson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Schmidt

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Josh Gibson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mickey Mantle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Johnny Bench

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hank Aaron

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Stan Musial

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Honus Wagner

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Joe Dimaggio

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Satchel Paige

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Roger Clemens

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Greg Maddux

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Walter Johnson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tom Seaver

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pedro Martinez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alex Rodriguez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Christy Mathewson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mariano Rivera

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Albert Pujols

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Aaron Judge

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Trout

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Miguel Cabrera

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cal Ripken

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sandy Koufax

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    34

msgkings322

I'm just here to troll everyone
133,499
56,651
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,700.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Pujols was a beast. But he played a much less demanding position and had no running game at any point in his career.

He also played in the juice era, and I don’t believe any player was “clean” during that era, no matter how swell a guy he may have been. I am looking at you, Griffey, Thome, Pujols, Biggio…
Frank Thomas I've always felt was above reproach, he was pretty vocal about the problem and other players were not happy about it. Dude was a massive Auburn football player so was always big. Wonder how much better his numbers would have been if he joined in that game too.
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,661
18,478
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
steroids is a big reason for this, but lets not forget what father time does... its pretty normal once players lose speed to bulk up... he just bulked up with help...
And he never used while PEDs were illegal. He played the game that was put in front of him. How can you fault a guy for that?

But yes, age was a big part as well. Look at Griffey (who was OBVIOUSLY totally clean). He bulked up and was not the same slender kid at the end of his career as she was when he first broke in with the Ms.
 

MilkSpiller22

Gorilla
35,319
7,170
533
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 89,217.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I am a actually a proponent of letting steroid users in the HOF... Just put an asterisk next to their name.... I also lean toward the Jose Canseco estimates for the players using some for of performance enhancing drug - about 85%?... Since everyone was doing it to some degree, just let them all in...
pujols was later though... he started in 2001... the average run scored dropped under 5.0 for all of pujols seasons except one... from 1994 to 2000 it was only below 5.0 once....

just relooked... and i was only looking at AL... NL surprisingly is not much different in run scored from steroid era to now...
 
Last edited:

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,661
18,478
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I am a actually a proponent of letting steroid users in the HOF... Just put an asterisk next to their name.... I also lean toward the Jose Canseco estimates for the players using some for of performance enhancing drug - about 85%?... Since everyone was doing it to some degree, just let them all in...
I see a difference between guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa (he has the cork, so he is a bit different) and guys like Ramirez and ARod.

Ramirez and ARod broke a (the?) rule of the game and got caught. The prior guys allegedly (no one doubts they did) used while PEDs were discouraged, but not illegal at all.

Look at their numbers and adjust as you see fit for historical comparison. But they should still be judged against their contemporaries for HOF and general greatness, imho.
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,661
18,478
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Frank Thomas I've always felt was above reproach, he was pretty vocal about the problem and other players were not happy about it. Dude was a massive Auburn football player so was always big. Wonder how much better his numbers would have been if he joined in that game too.
Ironic that he is now widely known for being a pitch man for a kind of PED…
 

msgkings322

I'm just here to troll everyone
133,499
56,651
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,700.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I see a difference between guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa (he has the cork, so he is a bit different) and guys like Ramirez and ARod.

Ramirez and ARod broke a (the?) rule of the game and got caught. The prior guys allegedly (no one doubts they did) used while PEDs were discouraged, but not illegal at all.

Look at their numbers and adjust as you see fit for historical comparison. But they should still be judged against their contemporaries for HOF and general greatness, imho.
As others have mentioned, let them in and put the issue on the plaque. It's a museum, they need exhibiting, warts and all.
 

jon2tanman

Well-Known Member
1,151
482
83
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Location
Monroe
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,829.78
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
In the first sven years of his career, Tout was on a trajectory that would have given him a career better than Mays. As I said previously and you conveniently chose to ignore, because t would have diluted your arguement, injuries ruined him.
Trout is the modern day Mickey Mantle. Well minus the booze.
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,661
18,478
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
As others have mentioned, let them in and put the issue on the plaque. It's a museum, they need exhibiting, warts and all.
There isn’t a mention of “Greenies” use on Aaron’s plaque. ”Greenies“ were legal in the game, so they shouldn’t be mentioned. PEDs were legal when Bonds allegedly used, and he was NEVER caught. Why include an assumed accusation for him?
 

msgkings322

I'm just here to troll everyone
133,499
56,651
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,700.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
There isn’t a mention of “Greenies” use on Aaron’s plaque. ”Greenies“ were legal in the game, so they shouldn’t be mentioned. PEDs were legal when Bonds allegedly used, and he was NEVER caught. Why include an assumed accusation for him?
So these church ladies will shut up about it and let the right people in their precious Hall
 

MilkSpiller22

Gorilla
35,319
7,170
533
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 89,217.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
There isn’t a mention of “Greenies” use on Aaron’s plaque. ”Greenies“ were legal in the game, so they shouldn’t be mentioned. PEDs were legal when Bonds allegedly used, and he was NEVER caught. Why include an assumed accusation for him?


also, everyone ignores that Mickey Mantle took steroids... and it was intended for him to get back on the field quicker... he even knew it was wrong... but it also didnt work, so....
 

black francis

Well-Known Member
12,722
3,563
293
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
No bobby witt jr option?
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,661
18,478
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
also, everyone ignores that Mickey Mantle took steroids... and it was intended for him to get back on the field quicker... he even knew it was wrong... but it also didnt work, so....
I was not aware of this.

But he is “The Mick”. He was a swell guy.
 

MilkSpiller22

Gorilla
35,319
7,170
533
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 89,217.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
oh yea... and why is fernando Tatis not on this list... he was the best player ever in one single inning...
 

PolarVortex

Nanook of the North
16,198
6,453
533
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Location
Mt Rainier
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Oh so now 'potential' and 'trajectory' counts? Do we get to remove the crappy years Mays had with the Mets to bring his OPS+ up?
I never said Trout was better than Mays. You created some dumbasss arguement that I guess you wanted to have. Maybe read my original comment on Trout, and read what I actually said instead of what you want to see so you can have something to get twisted underoos about, eh?.
 
Top