Penn State or Michigan? Which team is more likely to end Ohio State's Big Ten East dominance?

[Across The Field]

The michigan guy tackling him is inside the line, so he's clearly short.

lmao no he wasn't. It's funny that you posted a video that also showed he got the line to get for the first down. All you've done is confirm that the ball at least got to the first down line. It might not have gone past it, but it definitely got it.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

lmao no he wasn't. It's funny that you posted a video that also showed he got the line to get for the first down. All you've done is confirm that the ball at least got to the first down line. It might not have gone past it, but it definitely got it.

He didn't, the ball is clearly held before it ever crosses that line. And the fact that you needed a rotated image to try and make it seem like he did is funny to me.

 

[Across The Field]

He didn't, the ball is clearly held before it ever crosses that line. And the fact that you needed a rotated image to try and make it seem like he did is funny to me.

I just grabbed the first picture I found. When you rotated it, it still shows where he was holding the ball as being right on top of the line. And again, he didn't need to cross the line, he just needed to get to it, which he obviously did.

 

[Wamu]

We've had this discussion how many times? I enjoy watching my team win games. Harbaugh took a 5 win team that lost to Rutgers and has been top 10 in wins nationally since his return to Michigan. Pick any year he's been here, a win vs OSU likely changes the entire conversation. He's got a winning, or equal, record against every single other B10 team.

"pick any year he's been here, a win vs OSU likely changes the entire conversation


Say your team pulled off the upset last year. Ohio State still wins the division because your team had 2 conference losses. And your team still would have finished 3rd in the division because Penn State beat meeeechegan last year.

2017. Your team finished 8-5, had 4 conference losses and finished 4th in the division.

You said pick any year. You really need to stop being such a homer. I guess I give you credit for blocking out/ignoring anything negative about JH's coaching record since his glorious return to ann arbor.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

"pick any year he's been here, a win vs OSU likely changes the entire conversation


Say your team pulled off the upset last year. Ohio State still wins the division because your team had 2 conference losses. And your team still would have finished 3rd in the division because Penn State beat meeeechegan last year.

2017. Your team finished 8-5, had 4 conference losses and finished 4th in the division.

You said pick any year. You really need to stop being such a homer. I guess I give you credit for blocking out/ignoring anything negative about JH's coaching record since his glorious return to ann arbor.

But it changes the conversation around Harbaugh, not necessarily the outcome of the season. Let's be clear about what we're debating. You think Harbaugh is a total failure that hasn't accomplished anything. My argument is that his only fault has been a lack of a win against OSU; doing so completely changes that conversation.

 

[ericd7633]

You're talking absolute best case scenario. Unless they suck, I see Filiaga and Bell leaving. You're also saying 9 of 11 return as if it's automatically a good thing, but unless Harbaugh finally proves he can develop a QB on his own, that's far from a guarantee. This year is going to be huge for him and his future. He had 2 years with Shea Patterson, studs at WR, and a solid OL and took him from being a potential early first round pick to being a bottom of the barrel UDFA. Dylan McCaffrey and Joe Milton didn't look good at all in their limited time, and they're not the talent Patterson was.

While it is best case, I also think it's the most likely scenario as well. I do think it will be a good thing if they return 9/11 starters. Teams like Michigan need experience based on the level of recruits they pull in. Their 2021 team will look very similar to their 2016 team if those guys are back.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I just grabbed the first picture I found. When you rotated it, it still shows where he was holding the ball as being right on top of the line. And again, he didn't need to cross the line, he just needed to get to it, which he obviously did.

I'm not sure how your eyes work but he's sitting on the back of another OSU players who's being pushed by a Michigan player. If you follow the legs of that OSU player down, they're at lest a foot or more behind the line and the guy holding the ball is behind that. Even if you're assuming the tucked ball is slightly more forward than that, we're still talking about behind or at the spot of that player's feet; about a foot behind the line. Unless you think he shoved the ball through the back of that player's body, killing him and pushing the ball ahead?

 

[We Are Decent]

Didn't MN stop psu too?

Stop them from beating undefeated or stop them from making the playoffs?
Because in my eyes, for this hypothetical scenario: We're looking at an 11-1 Penn State team with wins against three ranked opponents, one being ranked #2 (with PSU being the visitor), winning their division, likely winning their conference (Penn State was better than Wisconsin that year), with their only loss coming from an away game to a ranked opponent treating it like it was their super bowl.

I don't know, but if you ask me, that's a helluva better resume than what Oklahoma got in 2019, and logically PSU would've beaten OSU in this playoff race as well.

So yeah, just like 2017, 2019 was a year where if Penn State defeated Ohio State, they're easily looking at a playoff run.

 

[Across The Field]

While it is best case, I also think it's the most likely scenario as well. I do think it will be a good thing if they return 9/11 starters. Teams like Michigan need experience based on the level of recruits they pull in. Their 2021 team will look very similar to their 2016 team if those guys are back.

You've gone from best case scenario to absolute Utopian levels of optimism if you're comparing it to the 2016 team. They also are going to love some big names on defense. Aidan Hutchinson, Kwity Paye, Carlo Kemp, Ambry Thomas, and Brad Hawkins will all be gone, and Cameron McGrone would also be gone if he has another strong year. I just don't see it.

 

[Across The Field]

I'm not sure how your eyes work but he's sitting on the back of another OSU players who's being pushed by a Michigan player. If you follow the legs of that OSU player down, they're at lest a foot or more behind the line and the guy holding the ball is behind that. Even if you're assuming the tucked ball is slightly more forward than that, we're still talking about behind or at the spot of that player's feet; about a foot behind the line. Unless you think he shoved the ball through the back of that player's body, killing him and pushing the ball ahead?

I'm looking at Barrett and where he was holding the ball in his chest. He's right on top of the line. My eyes work fine, it's you that needs to take off the maize-colored glasses.

 

[Thiefery]

So this had become a tosu vs um fight.. which again proves that if anyone is going challenge the Eastern div title..it's going to be Michigan.. is it happening soon? Absolutely not, but they are the most poised to do it, whenever they figure it out

 

[Wamu]

But it changes the conversation around Harbaugh, not necessarily the outcome of the season. Let's be clear about what we're debating. You think Harbaugh is a total failure that hasn't accomplished anything. My argument is that his only fault has been a lack of a win against OSU; doing so completely changes that conversation.

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Not once have I called JH a total failure. I've said many time in the past he's a good coach. But he's also the most overrated/overhyped coach in CFB.

You think I'm letting my dislike of any UofM get in the way. I'm looking at this objectively. Going by the numbers. And while he has a good overall winning % in ann arbor (.723) his winning % against ranked teams isn't good. That isn't talking shit. It's stating fact.

And let's be honest here. He's not only 0-5 vs. Ohio State, he's the only coach in UofM history to start 0-fer against the Buckeyes. Gave up an all time worst 62 in the Rivalry Game 2 years ago and follwed it up by giving up 56 last year. He's the first coach in UofM history to lose back to back bowl games by double digits. If his named wasn't Harbaugh he would have already been fired. He doesn't win the big games.

 

[Across The Field]

So this had become a tosu vs um fight.. which again proves that if anyone is going challenge the Eastern div title..it's going to be Michigan.. is it happening soon? Absolutely not, but they are the most poised to do it, whenever they figure it out

Or it proves that the board's resident lunatic michigan fan can't let go of a call from 4 years ago?

 

[Across The Field]

I'm not sure how your eyes work but he's sitting on the back of another OSU players who's being pushed by a Michigan player. If you follow the legs of that OSU player down, they're at lest a foot or more behind the line and the guy holding the ball is behind that. Even if you're assuming the tucked ball is slightly more forward than that, we're still talking about behind or at the spot of that player's feet; about a foot behind the line. Unless you think he shoved the ball through the back of that player's body, killing him and pushing the ball ahead?

Michigan fan blog says J.T. Barrett got first down — and it can prove it

Here you go. Your own homerific message board even said it was a first down.

 

[Wamu]

Or it proves that the board's resident lunatic michigan fan can't let go of a call from 4 years ago?

meeeechegan football--2018 Co-B10 East Champions!

 

[Wamu]

Michigan fan blog says J.T. Barrett got first down — and it can prove it

Here you go. Your own homerific message board even said it was a first down.

 

[ericd7633]

You've gone from best case scenario to absolute Utopian levels of optimism if you're comparing it to the 2016 team. They also are going to love some big names on defense. Aidan Hutchinson, Kwity Paye, Carlo Kemp, Ambry Thomas, and Brad Hawkins will all be gone, and Cameron McGrone would also be gone if he has another strong year. I just don't see it.

I have more faith in them being able to replace defensive guys than offensive guys. And I think the comparison is fair. That team was loaded with experienced guys, the 2021 team has the potential to as well. Also, that #1 class in the B1G from 2019 will be juniors.

 

[Across The Field]

I have more faith in them being able to replace defensive guys than offensive guys. And I think the comparison is fair. That team was loaded with experienced guys, the 2021 team has the potential to as well. Also, that #1 class in the B1G from 2019 will be juniors.

But the defense in 2021 won't be loaded with experience. They'd be losing potentially over half of their starters from 2021. The way it stands, they're losing at least 5.

Also that "#1 class" was 3rd in average star ranking. They took 26 guys that cycle, which was 3 more than PSU and 6 more than OSU.

 

[Shanemansj13]

scUM?

 

[Shanemansj13]

As long as they have Harbs they aren't going anywhere...but I've been saying this for years.