Time for CFP/NCAA to change selection rules.

[foster4prez]

That's a bullshit tweet. I dont even need to look it up to know that.

There is no way that Vegas had FSU favored AFTER Alabama beat Georgia.

That might have been the odds before the game but it sure wasnt after the game. The post game shows after the Bama victory basically all said "tough decision but FSU is going to be out".

It's true. It's pretty well documented and screenshot across cfb internet. I saw it myself when I looked Saturday evening.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Yeah, the new format won't prevent the argument between who's #12 and who's #13, etc...

I find anyone who acts like there isn't a huge difference between splitting hairs on 3 loss teams to an undefeated conf championship to be arguing their point entirely disingenuously.

 

[Payton]

I find anyone who acts like there isn't a huge difference between splitting hairs on 3 loss teams to an undefeated conf championship to be arguing their point entirely disingenuously.

I'm with you, but it always seems that over time, these arguments become just as vehement. All it takes is a single #12 seed to make a serious run or win, then everyone on the face of the earth thinks if they can just get in the playoff, they can win it all!

Again, we have some seriously heated arguments over "The Bubble" for the NCAA tournament in basketball all the time. And I get it. It's crazy. Like, "We're 17-12 and you're only 16-13! We should have gotten the bid!"... I guess when you tie money to anything, arguments will ensue.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I'm with you, but it always seems that over time, these arguments become just as vehement. All it takes is a single #12 seed to make a serious run or win, then everyone on the face of the earth thinks if they can just get in the playoff, they can win it all!

Again, we have some seriously heated arguments over "The Bubble" for the NCAA tournament in basketball all the time. And I get it. It's crazy. Like, "We're 17-12 and you're only 16-13! We should have gotten the bid!"... I guess when you tie money to anything, arguments will ensue.

I always find the bubble arguments to be stupid.

 

[Ron G]

I always find the bubble arguments to be stupid.

I am not so sure. It does seem that an upstart with a better record often gets left out to a team with a history of going to the tournament. This usually happens when a major upset occurs in a conference tournament. In this case (say a 12-13 season record) it gets the automatic bid, and the conference effectively gets an extra team the national tournament.
I have seen were a 15-13 team with a strong history gets in over a relative newcomer with a 25 and 4 record gets left out, just because of this. Usually when this happens, the conference champion gets a low seed and is eliminated in the first round.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I am not so sure. It does seem that an upstart with a better record often gets left out to a team with a history of going to the tournament. This usually happens when a major upset occurs in a conference tournament. In this case (say a 12-13 season record) it gets the automatic bid, and the conference effectively gets an extra team the national tournament.
I have seen were a 15-13 team with a strong history gets in over a relative newcomer with a 25 and 4 record gets left out, just because of this. Usually when this happens, the conference champion gets a low seed and is eliminated in the first round.

be better?

I mean that's what I would tell Missouri if they got left out for lsu this year or something.

 

[Ron G]

be better?

I mean that's what I would tell Missouri if they got left out for lsu this year or something.

Are you saying that my example of a 25-4 team needs to be better so as not to get pushed out by a17-15 team.

 

[DHoey]

Agreed, but that is something that the SEC has done for decades to their benefit. If you want a chance for the playoffs then this cupcake schedule has been beneficial. With an expanded playoffs, that calculus will change, though, and scheduling a tough OOC opponent could be beneficial. But if Michigan were simply trying to be top 12, then stomping on a bunch of lesser teams and then losing to Ohio State should still be enough to get in. Problem with that is that USC, Oregon, and UW are instant competition.

The calculus won't change. The committee will pick who they want, same as now. It will still be an invitational, it will still be about the money.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Are you saying that my example of a 25-4 team needs to be better so as not to get pushed out by a17-15 team.

I'd honestly prefer the 25 4 team in most circumstances

 

[BamaDude]

Michigan played the same amount of P5 schools this season as Georgia, Florida, and Alabama (I didn’t look at anyone else’s schedule).

Not quite. Florida played 10 P5 schools to Michigan's 9 (8 SEC opponents, plus Utah & FSU).

 

[BamaDude]

I was just disputing his opinion was not backed by objective analysis.

Which is why going to 12 is a better option than what we just went through..personally I think 8 is better but 12 eliminates these kind of discussions.

I also think 8 is better, but I guess I can live with 12.

 

[HuskerOC]

I also think 8 is better, but I guess I can live with 12.

12 will be an overkill shitshow.

This year's matchups would pit 2 first round rematches of the 4 games with Ohio State vs Penn State and Georgia vs Ole Miss.

4 teams would also get a BYE, and if anybody believes Missouri, or Ole Miss, or Penn State are running a 4 game gauntlet of that schedule, then they are completely phucking nuts.

We now have 4 P4 Conferences. No need to change anything with the Conference Championship Games. Any way those conferences see fit to determine their Champion and on we go with a 4 team playoff.

This years 12 team playoff would consist of 10 teams from the Big 10 and SEC going forward.

Hell, bring back the Grand Ol' BCS and let's just have the B10 Champ and SEC Champ duke it out from here on out?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

12 will be an overkill shitshow.

This year's matchups would pit 2 first round rematches of the 4 games with Ohio State vs Penn State and Georgia vs Ole Miss.

4 teams would also get a BYE, and if anybody believes Missouri, or Ole Miss, or Penn State are running a 4 game gauntlet of that schedule, then they are completely phucking nuts.

We now have 4 P4 Conferences. No need to change anything with the Conference Championship Games. Any way those conferences see fit to determine their Champion and on we go with a 4 team playoff.

This years 12 team playoff would consist of 10 teams from the Big 10 and SEC going forward.

Hell, bring back the Grand Ol' BCS and let's just have the B10 Champ and SEC Champ duke it out from here on out?

it's likely they'd attempt to keep rematch from happening but obviously it will. I'm not sure why people actively root against more meaningful football games.

 

[HuskerOC]

it's likely they'd attempt to keep rematch from happening but obviously it will. I'm not sure why people actively root against more meaningful football games.

What would be meaningful about Oregon vs Missouri, and why should either deserve any chance to play for the National Title?

12 teams completely devalues the entire regular season when 2, and even 3 loss teams will be on the table for a bid. We could legitimately get to a point where 2 teams meet in the CFP Championship Game for a 3rd time.

Then again, I'm fairly confident the B10 and SEC abandon their Championship Games to allow for more of their teams to be selected in the 12 team playoff and not add more unnecessary wear and tear on the players for their respective teams.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

What would be meaningful about Oregon vs Missouri, and why should either deserve any chance to play for the National Title?

12 teams completely devalues the entire regular season when 2, and even 3 loss teams will be on the table for a bid. We could legitimately get to a point where 2 teams meet in the CFP Championship Game for a 3rd time.

Then again, I'm fairly confident the B10 and SEC abandon their Championship Games to allow for more of their teams to be selected in the 12 team playoff and not add more unnecessary wear and tear on the players for their respective teams.

I don't see the last paragraph happening at all.

the regular season will be fine. People love football. Further it will mean more games late in the season have value. Playing for a bye is no small prize either.

 

[belcherboy]

Not quite. Florida played 10 P5 schools to Michigan's 9 (8 SEC opponents, plus Utah & FSU).

Not if you count the Big Ten championship game. (I actually miscounted Florida)

 

[Fitbud]

I do think in some ways FSU DID get hosed by the selection committee just not in the way many think. I think the committee screwed up by allowing Michigan and to a smaller extent Washington to skate in to the CFP.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - conference games (I don't care how many you play) DO NOTHING to sort out the best teams nationally.
Consider the case of two 9-team conferences, A and B. Both conferences play round-robin conference schedules. The teams in conference A end up 8-0, 7-1, 6-2, 5-3, 4,4, 3-5, 2-6, 1-7, and 0-8. The teams in conference B all end up 4-4. Does that mean that all of the teams in conference B are equivalent to the 5th best in A? Apparently, it does to this committee. Now suppose the teams in the two conferences play 4 teams at random in the other conference in OOC games and every team in B ends up 4-0!

Now, the overall records for conference A are 8-4, 7-5, 6-6, 5-7, 4-8, 3-9, 2-10, 1-11, and 0-12 while every team in B ends up 8-4. Has your opinion changed as to conference strength????? IN-conference games DO NOT tell you which teams are best nationally - only OOC games do that.

The Big Ten (Top 5 Conf teams played...)
Conf # 1 Michigan (the supposed #1 team) played ZERO P5 teams OOC. BTW, UM was the ONLY B1G team to not play a single OOC P5 team.
Conf # 2 Ohio State vs Conf # 3.1 Notre Dame W
Conf # 3 Penn State vs Conf # 7 West Virginia W
Conf # 4 Iowa vs Conf # 6 Iowa State W
Conf # 5 Maryland vs Conf # 13 Virginia W

Conf # 13 Michigan State vs Conf # 1 Washington L
Conf # 14 Indiana vs Conf # 2 Louisville L


The PAC (Top 5 Conf teams played...)
Conf # 1 Washington Conf # 13 Michigan State W
Conf # 2 Oregon Conf # 8 Texas Tech W
Conf # 3 Arizona Conf # 12 Mississippi State L
Conf # 4 Oregon State Conf #
Conf # 5 Utah Conf # 10 Florida W
Conf # 5 Utah Conf # 14 Baylor W
Conf # 7 UCLA Pac 12 Conf #

The ACC(Top 5 Conf teams played...)
Conf # 1 Florida State Conf # 3 Louisiana State W
Conf # 1 Florida State Conf # 10 Florida W
Conf # 2 Louisville Conf # 3.1 Notre Dame W
Conf # 2 Louisville Conf # 8 Kentucky L
Conf # 2 Louisville Conf # 14 Indiana W
Conf # 3 Clemson Conf # 3.1 Notre Dame W
Conf # 3 Clemson Conf # 11 South Carolina W
Conf # 4 NC State Conf # 3.1 Notre Dame L
Conf # 5 North Carolina Conf # 9 Minnesota W
Conf # 5 North Carolina Conf # 11 South Carolina W
Conf # 11 Boston College Conf # Only ACC team to not play OOC P5 team.
The Big 12 (Top 5 Conf teams played...)
Conf # 1 Texas Conf # 1 Alabama W
Conf # 2 Oklahoma Conf #
Conf # 3 KState Conf # 4 Missouri L
Conf # 4 Kansas Conf # 10 Illinois W
Conf # 5 Okla State Conf # 11 Arizona State W
Conf # 9 UCF Conf #
Conf # 12 Houston Conf #
The SEC (Top 5 Conf teams played...)
Conf # 1 Alabama Conf # 1 Texas L
Conf # 2 Georgia Conf # 8 Georgia Tech W
Conf # 3 Louisiana State Conf # 1 Florida State L
Conf # 4 Missouri Conf # 3 Kansas State W
Conf # 5 Mississippi Conf # 8 Georgia Tech W

As a conference the SEC played 3 x #1, 1 x #2, 3 x #3, 2 x #5

So, as you can see, the two top teams played the easiest OOC schedules and played in the two conferences that played the easiest OOC schedules. With the expanded conferences and the desire to play MORE IN-conference games this problem is goint to get worse.

The NCAA must mandate that A) teams must play at least TWO OOC P5 teams and B) one must be ranked opponent!

Alabama must have figured this out and that's why they play New Mexico Military Institute at the end of the year.

 

[Fitbud]

Listen I am an Alabama fan so obviously a tad bit biased. But I don't think FSU was that hosed or screwed. The ACC this season just simply failed them. When you play a schedule that consists of teams that went a combined 77-79 and you are being compared against Alabama who played a schedule that consists of teams that went 98-61. That is a GLARING difference. When you take into account that Alabama beat a team that won 2 straight National Titles while winning 29 games in a row on top of that. FSU was simply let down by their conference. There is no outrage from them that they are also ranked behind a 1 loss Texas team anywhere that I see. They are only outraged because Alabama is ranked ahead of them. Yet Alabama's resume is unmatched right now even with 1 loss. Alabama has an argument to being the most deserving team in the 4 team playoff because of how jam packed with quality opponents that it was this season. Yet the outrage is they got selected over FSU. The outrage should be the weakness of the B1G schedules and Texas slotting ahead of FSU even though they upset Bama in Week 2. They really aren't getting punished as hard for their OU loss as Alabama is for their Texas loss.

Didn't the ACC have a winning record against the SEC this year?

 

[Gator]

Alabama must have figured this out and that's why they play New Mexico Military Institute at the end of the year.

This intended slam, "why they play New Mexico Military Institute at the end of the year" is something I don't understand. Bama plays Tennessee-Chattanooga, Ohio State plays Youngstown State, Oregon plays Portland State, Penn State plays Delaware, etc. But Bama catches crap because they play their cupcake near the end of the year. I'll tell you how things evolved at UF.

Back in 1990 when Spurrier just got to UF he wanted some changes made in the schedule. First, in the 83 prior years UF had played Auburn and Georgia back to back. UF had managed to beat BOTH in the same year 8 times! So he wanted to move one of the two "bye" week to be between Auburn and Georgia (it is still in front of UGa today). Second, he wanted the other "bye" week to be in-front of the FSU game. When CFB went to 12 games UF simply converted the 2nd "BYE" game into an FCS game. The SEC plays 8 conference games and 4 OOC. We typically start the season with two OOC games and end the season with two more OOC games (the FCS team and FSU). If you consult the schedules you will notice that UGa also has a bye game in front of the UF game and an FCS opponent in front of Auburn. FSU, I don't completely understand. They play an FCS team in front of the UF game but the bye week after Clemson (not before) and before VT. In the case of Bama, they schedule the FCS team (this year UT-Chattanooga) in front of the iron bowl. I see NO reason to start the season with 3 or 4 OOC games other than stupidity! You're playing the SAME teams why not put your team in the best position to win all of the games?

 

[Fitbud]

This intended slam, "why they play New Mexico Military Institute at the end of the year" is something I don't understand. Bama plays Tennessee-Chattanooga, Ohio State plays Youngstown State, Oregon plays Portland State, Penn State plays Delaware, etc. But Bama catches crap because they play their cupcake near the end of the year. I'll tell you how things evolved at UF.

Back in 1990 when Spurrier just got to UF he wanted some changes made in the schedule. First, in the 83 prior years UF had played Auburn and Georgia back to back. UF had managed to beat BOTH in the same year 8 times! So he wanted to move one of the two "bye" week to be between Auburn and Georgia (it is still in front of UGa today). Second, he wanted the other "bye" week to be in-front of the FSU game. When CFB went to 12 games UF simply converted the 2nd "BYE" game into an FCS game. The SEC plays 8 conference games and 4 OOC. We typically start the season with two OOC games and end the season with two more OOC games (the FCS team and FSU). If you consult the schedules you will notice that UGa also has a bye game in front of the UF game and an FCS opponent in front of Auburn. FSU, I don't completely understand. They play an FCS team in front of the UF game but the bye week after Clemson (not before) and before VT. In the case of Bama, they schedule the FCS team (this year UT-Chattanooga) in front of the iron bowl. I see NO reason to start the season with 3 or 4 OOC games other than stupidity! You're playing the SAME teams why not put your team in the best position to win all of the games?

In all honestly, I don't care when the SEC plays their OOC games. They get slammed because they, at least until recently, typically play cupcakes and rarely venture out of the South.