Penn State or Michigan? Which team is more likely to end Ohio State's Big Ten East dominance?

[ericd7633]

But the defense in 2021 won't be loaded with experience. They'd be losing potentially over half of their starters from 2021. The way it stands, they're losing at least 5.

Also that "#1 class" was 3rd in average star ranking. They took 26 guys that cycle, which was 3 more than PSU and 6 more than OSU.

So they'll be likely returning 14/15 starters. I'd say that's a pretty good amount.

And yeah I know they didn't have the highest average star rank. It was still a great class for them and those guys will have experience. I'm not as worried about the defense, because they've been great/elite under Brown for the most part.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Not once have I called JH a total failure. I've said many time in the past he's a good coach. But he's also the most overrated/overhyped coach in CFB.

You think I'm letting my dislike of any UofM get in the way. I'm looking at this objectively. Going by the numbers. And while he has a good overall winning % in ann arbor (.723) his winning % against ranked teams isn't good. That isn't talking shit. It's stating fact.

And let's be honest here. He's not only 0-5 vs. Ohio State, he's the only coach in UofM history to start 0-fer against the Buckeyes. Gave up an all time worst 62 in the Rivalry Game 2 years ago and follwed it up by giving up 56 last year. He's the first coach in UofM history to lose back to back bowl games by double digits. If his named wasn't Harbaugh he would have already been fired. He doesn't win the big games.

You say that all the time. "I haven't called Harbaugh a total failure" but then say in the literal same paragraph that harbaugh hasn't accomplished anything at Michigan. IDK about you but if your team was losing to Rutgers, you might consider 10 win seasons "accomplishing something".

 

[Duckboy33]

5 years under Harbaugh:
47-12 (32-12)
4 Top 20 Finishes

Michigan in the previous 5 years before Harbaugh:
38-26 (21-19)
1 Top 20 Finish

There's no doubt that Harbaugh has improved the program at Michigan. In that way, it's hard to call him a failure. The big question is whether that is good enough for Michigan fans.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

5 years under Harbaugh:
47-12 (32-12)
4 Top 20 Finishes

Michigan in the previous 5 years before Harbaugh:
38-26 (21-19)
1 Top 20 Finish

There's no doubt that Harbaugh has improved the program at Michigan. In that way, it's hard to call him a failure. The big question is whether that is good enough for Michigan fans.

The big question is whether he can do better in the next 5 years. If the next 5 years looks like the first 5 years then I think there's a problem. But we've been so damn close to something special happening. All it's going to take is one special player to tip the scale.

 

[Duckboy33]

The big question is whether he can do better in the next 5 years. If the next 5 years looks like the first 5 years then I think there's a problem. But we've been so damn close to something special happening. All it's going to take is one special player to tip the scale.

I agree. Michigan's 2016 team was very close to making the playoffs.

 

[Wamu]

You say that all the time. "I haven't called Harbaugh a total failure" but then say in the literal same paragraph that harbaugh hasn't accomplished anything at Michigan. IDK about you but if your team was losing to Rutgers, you might consider 10 win seasons "accomplishing something".

The problem is he hasn't accomplished anything at meeeechegan. And if you think he's accomplished something tell me what it is. Outside of doubling with win total his 1st year he's done very little.

You're judging him on what you hope he does. And not what he's done so far. I've mentioned his utter failures playing Ohio State (the one game you keep talking about) yet you have nothing to say about it. Instead you seem to ignore it.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

The problem is he hasn't accomplished anything at meeeechegan. And if you think he's accomplished something tell me what it is. Outside of doubling with win total his 1st year he's done very little.

You're judging him on what you hope he does. And not what he's done so far. I've mentioned his utter failures playing Ohio State (the one game you keep talking about) yet you have nothing to say about it. Instead you seem to ignore it.

No, in fact I say that's one of his only failures. You just don't seem to be listening.

 

[Wamu]

No, in fact I say that's one of his only failures. You just don't seem to be listening.

That's not his only failure though. You want to pretend his record vs. ranked teams isn't an indicator of his coaching abilities. Thinking those losses somehow don't count. Are you also suggesting his 1-4 bowl record really isn't as bad as it looks? Like I said he doesn't win the big games. But you refuse to see that.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

That's not his only failure though. You want to pretend his record vs. ranked teams isn't an indicator of his coaching abilities. Thinking those losses somehow don't count. Are you also suggesting his 1-4 bowl record really isn't as bad as it looks? Like I said he doesn't win the big games. But you refuse to see that.

He's not especially bad against "ranked" teams, you're narrowing it down to top 10 teams. I suspect most teams have a losing record vs. top 10 teams unless you're one of the few truly elite schools out there. But ranked teams Michigan does just fine against. Top 10 teams we have a handful of wins in 5 years. 1/3 of the losses in that category are Ohio State or bowl games.

 

[Hitman Hart]

the problem with Harbaugh is that he's a good coach that is being paid like an elite coach

 

[jayfan]

Over the last decade, only Michigan State has been a threat. Now that they're down (way down), there is no threat.

 

[Wamu]

He's not especially bad against "ranked" teams, you're narrowing it down to top 10 teams. I suspect most teams have a losing record vs. top 10 teams unless you're one of the few truly elite schools out there. But ranked teams Michigan does just fine against. Top 10 teams we have a handful of wins in 5 years. 1/3 of the losses in that category are Ohio State or bowl games.

The bottom line is Harbs hasn't lived up to the hype. Spin it anyway you want. And it doesn't matter what other programs have done against the top 10. And I doubt his record vs. ranked teams outside the top 10 is really that good. This is about meeeechegan and their great leader. It's funny how you'll stop at nothing to defend Harbs no matter what.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

The bottom line is Harbs hasn't lived up to the hype. Spin it anyway you want. And it doesn't matter what other programs have done against the top 10. And I doubt his record vs. ranked teams outside the top 10 is really that good. This is about meeeechegan and their great leader. It's funny how you'll stop at nothing to defend Harbs no matter what.

I wouldn't disagree. He was supposed to be a top 5 coach, and has ended up a top 15 coach. But your criticisms are unusually severe; most likely due to his price tag.

 

[Wamu]

I wouldn't disagree. He was supposed to be a top 5 coach, and has ended up a top 15 coach. But your criticisms are unusually severe; most likely due to his price tag.

I don't think I'm being unusually severe. I'm just going by what the W/L numbers say. And I think unless JH has an urge to return to the NFL he's gonna be in ann arbor for a while. Which is great for the fanbase, he's a UofM legend.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I don't think I'm being unusually severe. I'm just going by what the W/L numbers say. And I think unless JH has an urge to return to the NFL he's gonna be in ann arbor for a while. Which is great for the fanbase, he's a UofM legend.

The numbers are pretty damn good, to quote a post from duckboy above:

5 years under Harbaugh:
47-12 (32-12)
4 Top 20 Finishes

Michigan in the previous 5 years before Harbaugh:
38-26 (21-19)
1 Top 20 Finish

That's conference records I believe listed above.

 

[Wamu]

The numbers are pretty damn good, to quote a post from duckboy above:

5 years under Harbaugh:
47-12 (32-12)
4 Top 20 Finishes




Michigan in the previous 5 years before Harbaugh:
38-26 (21-19)
1 Top 20 Finish

That's conference records I believe listed above.

Like I've said before I think he's a good coach. But according to sports-ref.com JH's record at meeeechegan is 47-18. He needs to start beating top 10 caliber teams & ranked teams on the road when he's an underdog. I think he only has one such win like that on the road.

 

[Deep Creek]

the problem with Harbaugh is that he's a good coach that is being paid like an elite coach

100% correct. And there are a lot of average coaches being paid like good coaches!

 

[ralphiewvu]

Or it proves that the board's resident lunatic michigan fan can't let go of a call from 4 years ago?

I don’t know, it was very close. I mean he definitely got it but still, it was close.

 

[outofyourmind]

Tom Osborne lost his first 5 to Oklahoma.
The fans talked about firing him.


Look how he turned out.

 

[Thiefery]

Tom Osborne lost his first 5 to Oklahoma.
The fans talked about firing him.


Look how he turned out.

you don't get that amount of rope these days