Penn State or Michigan? Which team is more likely to end Ohio State's Big Ten East dominance?

[outofyourmind]

you don't get that amount of rope these days

Seems pretty similar to Harbaugh

 

[Deep Creek]

you don't get that amount of rope these days

 

[Across The Field]

So they'll be likely returning 14/15 starters. I'd say that's a pretty good amount.

And yeah I know they didn't have the highest average star rank. It was still a great class for them and those guys will have experience. I'm not as worried about the defense, because they've been great/elite under Brown for the most part.

That's not a pretty good amount when they're losing their major playmakers. Also, their defense hasn't been elite since 2016. They weren't elite two years ago, or last year. They will not be close to 2016 michigan in 2021, this is for sure.

 

[ericd7633]

That's not a pretty good amount when they're losing their major playmakers. Also, their defense hasn't been elite since 2016. They weren't elite two years ago, or last year. They will not be close to 2016 michigan in 2021, this is for sure.

In 2017 they were 9th in defensive efficiency.
In 2018 they were 7th in defensive efficiency.
In 2019 they were 19th in defensive efficiency.

Last year they weren't as good. But my point is he has a good track record of producing great defenses.

And I would say returning 70 percent of your starters is good.

 

[Across The Field]

In 2017 they were 9th in defensive efficiency.
In 2018 they were 7th in defensive efficiency.
In 2019 they were 19th in defensive efficiency.

Last year they weren't as good. But my point is he has a good track record of producing great defenses.

And I would say returning 70 percent of your starters is good.

Is returning 5/6 of your 11 starters on defense good?

Last year, they got pummeled by Ohio State, Alabama, and Wisconsin on defense. They also allowed 28 to Penn State (who wasn't great offensively). That was far from an elite defense.

2018 we hung over 60 on them. We could've hit 70 if we wanted, but we downed the ball inside their 10 to run the clock out. They were overrated.

2017 we came into their house and put up 31 after having to throw in a very green backup QB in on a whim. They also gave up 42 to Penn State, 24 to Wisconsin, and then 26 to a bad South Carolina offense.

They've always looked good against bad teams, but can't handle the good ones. Their defense in 2016 was elite. It has not been since then.

 

[ericd7633]

Is returning 5/6 of your 11 starters on defense good?

Last year, they got pummeled by Ohio State, Alabama, and Wisconsin on defense. They also allowed 28 to Penn State (who wasn't great offensively). That was far from an elite defense.

2018 we hung over 60 on them. We could've hit 70 if we wanted, but we downed the ball inside their 10 to run the clock out. They were overrated.

2017 we came into their house and put up 31 after having to throw in a very green backup QB in on a whim. They also gave up 42 to Penn State, 24 to Wisconsin, and then 26 to a bad South Carolina offense.

They've always looked good against bad teams, but can't handle the good ones. Their defense in 2016 was elite. It has not been since then.

Returning them on defense is better than offense because they have a proven track record of being great on defense. Which was my whole point to begin with. They've had 3 top 10 defenses under Brown and another top 20. Their offense hasn't been that under Harbaugh. So having more experience on offense is better for them IMO.

 

[jayfan]

I don't think I'm being unusually severe. I'm just going by what the W/L numbers say. And I think unless JH has an urge to return to the NFL he's gonna be in ann arbor for a while. Which is great for the fanbase, he's a UofM legend.

Also great for Ohio State's fanbase.

 

[jayfan]

Tom Osborne lost his first 5 to Oklahoma.
The fans talked about firing him.


Look how he turned out.

Osborne was a relatively unknown 35 yr old kid (very young for a head coach back then) in his first ever head coaching gig.

Harbaugh's none of those things.

 

[Across The Field]

Returning them on defense is better than offense because they have a proven track record of being great on defense. Which was my whole point to begin with. They've had 3 top 10 defenses under Brown and another top 20. Their offense hasn't been that under Harbaugh. So having more experience on offense is better for them IMO.

I don't think it's a coincidence that after 2018 when Mattison and Washington left and came to OSU, we suddenly became elite on defense and michigan dropped back quite a bit. They're on a downward slope as a team in general, and their defense isn't scaring anyone.

 

[ericd7633]

I don't think it's a coincidence that after 2018 when Mattison and Washington left and came to OSU, we suddenly became elite on defense and michigan dropped back quite a bit. They're on a downward slope as a team in general, and their defense isn't scaring anyone.

I think they'll be back to a top 10 defense in 2020 and 2021. 2021 probably a little bit better than 2020. Which is why I initially went as Michigan being the bigger threat to OSU, but overall don't think they'll beat them or anything.

 

[Across The Field]

I think they'll be back to a top 10 defense in 2020 and 2021. 2021 probably a little bit better than 2020. Which is why I initially went as Michigan being the bigger threat to OSU, but overall don't think they'll beat them or anything.

I'm not sure what would suddenly make them an elite defense after last season, especially after losing 5 guys from the defense to the draft. Like I said, it's not a coincidence that Mattison and Washington left and suddenly their defense dropped off. I'm certainly not afraid of them as an OSU fan, and I'm honestly not that worried even if I was a Wisconsin, Penn State, or Minnesota fan. I don't see them winning any of those games either.

 

[ericd7633]

I'm not sure what would suddenly make them an elite defense after last season, especially after losing 5 guys from the defense to the draft. Like I said, it's not a coincidence that Mattison and Washington left and suddenly their defense dropped off. I'm certainly not afraid of them as an OSU fan, and I'm honestly not that worried even if I was a Wisconsin, Penn State, or Minnesota fan. I don't see them winning any of those games either.

Uche and Hudson are the only noteworthy guys though. I'm on record saying they'll beat PSU and Wisconsin this season. We'll see what happens. Not sure about the Minnesota game. At this point I'd lean towards Michigan though.

 

[Across The Field]

Uche and Hudson are the only noteworthy guys though. I'm on record saying they'll beat PSU and Wisconsin this season. We'll see what happens. Not sure about the Minnesota game. At this point I'd lean towards Michigan though.

Is this just you pumping them up because they beat the ever-loving hell out of ND last year? To try and make it seem like they're better than they actually are? Because otherwise, I can't find anything that would support your ideas here.

 

[ericd7633]

Is this just you pumping them up because they beat the ever-loving hell out of ND last year? To try and make it seem like they're better than they actually are? Because otherwise, I can't find anything that would support your ideas here.

Lmao. No. I don't see what's so surprising about me picking them to beat PSU and Wisconsin? They beat ranked teams at home not named OSU. They are 7-2 at home against ranked teams with Harbaugh, again not counting OSU. It's not like Michigan is going to all the sudden go 7-5 here. As much as I'd like them too.

 

[BamaDude]

Obviously Ohio State has been dominating on the field and the recruiting trail. It doesn't appear to be ending soon. That said, which program is more likely to end Ohio State's dominance in the Big Ten East?

Note that this doesn't have to happen in 2020 (it likely won't).

I would go with Penn St. And, even then, it would just be maybe a one year blip, with the Buckeyes picking up where they left off the next season.

 

[Across The Field]

Lmao. No. I don't see what's so surprising about me picking them to beat PSU and Wisconsin? They beat ranked teams at home not named OSU. They are 7-2 at home against ranked teams with Harbaugh, again not counting OSU. It's not like Michigan is going to all the sudden go 7-5 here. As much as I'd like them too.

Games from the past just don't matter. PSU is projected to be a top 5 team this year. I don't see how michigan is going to score much on them. I think it'll be low-scoring, but PSU will win. Something like 21-10. Wisconsin is overall just a better team. They have a better QB situation, and they obviously know how to run the ball. I see Wisconsin taking care of business there too. Considering michigan will have to go to Minnesota after a 3 week stretch of PSU, Wisconsin, and MSU, I definitely give Minnesota the edge. They return a ton of talent on offense, and if they were able to score like they did on PSU last year, they won't have trouble with michigan, especially in Minneapolis.

 

[ericd7633]

Games from the past just don't matter. PSU is projected to be a top 5 team this year. I don't see how michigan is going to score much on them. I think it'll be low-scoring, but PSU will win. Something like 21-10. Wisconsin is overall just a better team. They have a better QB situation, and they obviously know how to run the ball. I see Wisconsin taking care of business there too. Considering michigan will have to go to Minnesota after a 3 week stretch of PSU, Wisconsin, and MSU, I definitely give Minnesota the edge. They return a ton of talent on offense, and if they were able to score like they did on PSU last year, they won't have trouble with michigan, especially in Minneapolis.

I just disagree. Michigan is a different team at home, compared to the road. PSU and Wisconsin are also different teams on the road. Neither has won in AA in a long time.

 

[miah]

Obviously Ohio State has been dominating on the field and the recruiting trail. It doesn't appear to be ending soon. That said, which program is more likely to end Ohio State's dominance in the Big Ten East?

Note that this doesn't have to happen in 2020 (it likely won't).

Penn St. for $1000, Alex.

My guess would be Penn St. Harbaugh seems to have his best coaching days in the review. He's had some good recruiting and chances, but he just can't seem to break through on Ohio.

 

[THUNDER]

Nobody.......fuh-get-a-bout-it.

 

[OregonDucks]

Who's that Big Ten team we routinely beat again and again in the Rose Bowl? Oh yes, Wisconsin.