Penn State or Michigan? Which team is more likely to end Ohio State's Big Ten East dominance?

[ralphiewvu]

That's right. I forgot in your world those losses to ranked teams don't count. And as usual you've ignored all the other issues Harbs has had since he returned. But keep telling yourself the only problem is not being able to beat Ohio State. His overall record vs. ranked teams is lousy. But you choose to ignore anything negative about him.

Although I have to say it's funny you refuse to answer the quesrion what exactly has JH accomplished. I wonder why that is? Could it be because the answer is nothing?

You are going to criticize M&B for ignoring stuff when you ignore the list you quoted is missing a few teams and that coincidently help support your argument? Interesting tactic.

 

[ericd7633]

Don't you think michigan will lose just as much? I know PSU has some studs that will leave, but it's not like they haven't recruited well recently. I know michigan doesn't have 1st round studs like Parsons or Friermeuth, but they're still likely to lose several offensive linemen, and potentially their top two WRs after 2020, not to mention a pretty big amount of defensive starters, especially at DL and DB. It's also not like they've been recruiting much better than Penn State the last couple years.

I can see Mayfield leaving from the O-line, but everyone else I would project to be back. Same with WR, they'll lose Nico, but I'd guess everyone else will be back. Their TE for 2020 isn't anything special, so he'll be fine to replace. PSU has recruited slightly better over what will be the 2018-2021 seasons, but alot of those 2018 guys will be gone via draft or transfer.

 

[We Are Decent]

Dude, Michigan beats Ohio State they finally get bragging rights.
Penn State beats Ohio State you're looking at a Playoff run
With Michigan State out of the way & Wisconsin's eternal suffering at the championship game, no one is going to stop whoever wins the OSU-PSU game.

 

[Thiefery]

Dude, Michigan beats Ohio State they finally get bragging rights.
Penn State beats Ohio State you're looking at a Playoff run
With Michigan State out of the way & Wisconsin's eternal suffering at the championship game, no one is going to stop whoever wins the OSU-PSU game.

Didn't MN stop psu too?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

That's right. I forgot in your world those losses to ranked teams don't count. And as usual you've ignored all the other issues Harbs has had since he returned. But keep telling yourself the only problem is not being able to beat Ohio State. His overall record vs. ranked teams is lousy. But you choose to ignore anything negative about him.

Although I have to say it's funny you refuse to answer the quesrion what exactly has JH accomplished. I wonder why that is? Could it be because the answer is nothing?

His only real issue is not beating OSU; something that as a standard, is hard to meet for any team. Even the teams you're comparing us with have just, maybe, single wins over OSU; or even worse, closer losses. Not exactly a powerful metric. More importantly, any coach in the world would struggle with the current state of OSU vs. Michigan before or present to Harbaugh being here.

 

[Rolltide94]

What in the holy fuck balls is this shit? It looks like a Sports Illustrated shoot...for the Swimsuit Issue.

 

[Across The Field]

Other than, you know, the video of him never crossing the line.

LOLOL gotta love it

 

[Across The Field]

I can see Mayfield leaving from the O-line, but everyone else I would project to be back. Same with WR, they'll lose Nico, but I'd guess everyone else will be back. Their TE for 2020 isn't anything special, so he'll be fine to replace. PSU has recruited slightly better over what will be the 2018-2021 seasons, but alot of those 2018 guys will be gone via draft or transfer.

If Filiaga lives up to the hype, I could easily see him leave since it will have been his 4th year. Otherwise, the other 3 guys are relative nobodies. Mayfield leaving will be a really big loss. With WR, Nico will leave, and I could definitely see Ronnie Bell leaving if he leads the team in receiving again. There's also the unrest at QB since Harbaugh can't seem to develop QBs himself.

It really just comes down to PSU heading in the right direction and michigan not. To be honest, I don't see either of them catching OSU any time soon, but I think PSU has placed itself firmly at #2 in the division.

 

[ericd7633]

If Filiaga lives up to the hype, I could easily see him leave since it will have been his 4th year. Otherwise, the other 3 guys are relative nobodies. Mayfield leaving will be a really big loss. With WR, Nico will leave, and I could definitely see Ronnie Bell leaving if he leads the team in receiving again. There's also the unrest at QB since Harbaugh can't seem to develop QBs himself.

It really just comes down to PSU heading in the right direction and michigan not. To be honest, I don't see either of them catching OSU any time soon, but I think PSU has placed itself firmly at #2 in the division.

Those guys on Michigan aren't near as sure things. I've seen Freiermuth and Parsons as top 15 picks. I would expect Mayfield to leave. But with that said they'd still return 9 of 11 starters on offense.

 

[Wamu]

His only real issue is not beating OSU; something that as a standard, is hard to meet for any team. Even the teams you're comparing us with have just, maybe, single wins over OSU; or even worse, closer losses. Not exactly a powerful metric. More importantly, any coach in the world would struggle with the current state of OSU vs. Michigan before or present to Harbaugh being here.

So his only real issue is not being able to beat Ohio State when his record vs. ranked teams is lousy and his bowl record is only 1-4? And spare me your nonsense that losses over ranked teams don't count. That's only in your world. So then that has to mean his wins over ranked teams don't count either right? You act like the only thing missing from JH's coaching resume is beating Ohio State.

One more thing. Why won't you answer the question what exactly has JH accomplished since his retrun to ann arbor? You said he's done just about everything except beat Ohio State. So lists his accomplishments. It shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[Across The Field]

Those guys on Michigan aren't near as sure things. I've seen Freiermuth and Parsons as top 15 picks. I would expect Mayfield to leave. But with that said they'd still return 9 of 11 starters on offense.

You're talking absolute best case scenario. Unless they suck, I see Filiaga and Bell leaving. You're also saying 9 of 11 return as if it's automatically a good thing, but unless Harbaugh finally proves he can develop a QB on his own, that's far from a guarantee. This year is going to be huge for him and his future. He had 2 years with Shea Patterson, studs at WR, and a solid OL and took him from being a potential early first round pick to being a bottom of the barrel UDFA. Dylan McCaffrey and Joe Milton didn't look good at all in their limited time, and they're not the talent Patterson was.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

LOLOL gotta love it

Thanks for bringing this up. Notice anything strange about this image? Do you normally watch TV's crooked? The image is altered to change the perspective on up/down. Yeah if you draw a line in the new vertical it looks like the football would be over the line; but that's not how it actually looked. Down wasn't, in fact, sideways to give him more forward progress. Here's how the image would have looked like on TV:

Notice how if you draw a line down from the football now, it changes to behind the line? Huh? Weird. All I did was rotate the image so the field wasn't pointing down to the right, to rotate the ball in his hands to look like it's over the line. I don't need an optical illusion to make it seem like the play wasn't spotted wrong.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

So his only real issue is not being able to beat Ohio State when his record vs. ranked teams is lousy and his bowl record is only 1-4? And spare me your nonsense that losses over ranked teams don't count. That's only in your world. So then that has to mean his wins over ranked teams don't count either right? You act like the only thing missing from JH's coaching resume is beating Ohio State.

One more thing. Why won't you answer the question what exactly has JH accomplished since his retrun to ann arbor? You said he's done just about everything except beat Ohio State. So lists his accomplishments. It shouldn't be that difficult.

We've had this discussion how many times? I enjoy watching my team win games. Harbaugh took a 5 win team that lost to Rutgers and has been top 10 in wins nationally since his return to Michigan. Pick any year he's been here, a win vs OSU likely changes the entire conversation. He's got a winning, or equal, record against every single other B10 team.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

If Filiaga lives up to the hype, I could easily see him leave since it will have been his 4th year. Otherwise, the other 3 guys are relative nobodies. Mayfield leaving will be a really big loss. With WR, Nico will leave, and I could definitely see Ronnie Bell leaving if he leads the team in receiving again. There's also the unrest at QB since Harbaugh can't seem to develop QBs himself.

It really just comes down to PSU heading in the right direction and michigan not. To be honest, I don't see either of them catching OSU any time soon, but I think PSU has placed itself firmly at #2 in the division.

Let's be honest, all of those things are good but they don't matter when talking about beating OSU. The first time to get an elite QB or RB will be the one to beat OSU. Michigan desperately needs elite QB play, it's been the major difference between our 10 win seasons and actually going undefeated. Michigan has the talent on both sides of the ball to compete with OSU. We've had the receivers. We've had the defense. We haven't had the RB or QB. If just one of our QB's pans out, we have a good shot.

 

[Across The Field]

Thanks for bringing this up. Notice anything strange about this image? Do you normally watch TV's crooked? The image is altered to change the perspective on up/down. Yeah if you draw a line in the new vertical it looks like the football would be over the line; but that's not how it actually looked. Down wasn't, in fact, sideways to give him more forward progress. Here's how the image would have looked like on TV:

Notice how if you draw a line down from the football now, it changes to behind the line? Huh? Weird. All I did was rotate the image so the field wasn't pointing down to the right, to rotate the ball in his hands to look like it's over the line. I don't need an optical illusion to make it seem like the play wasn't spotted wrong.

So, you're saying the picture you just posted is the real image then?

 

[Across The Field]

Let's be honest, all of those things are good but they don't matter when talking about beating OSU. The first time to get an elite QB or RB will be the one to beat OSU. Michigan desperately needs elite QB play, it's been the major difference between our 10 win seasons and actually going undefeated. Michigan has the talent on both sides of the ball to compete with OSU. We've had the receivers. We've had the defense. We haven't had the RB or QB. If just one of our QB's pans out, we have a good shot.

You've had an elite QB prospect that was a projected first rounder that your coach basically ruined. You've also had several other 4* guys that have amounted to nothing. You've also had several 4* RBs that have, again, amounted to nothing because you can't develop RBs. You keep acting like some magical unicorn QB or RB is gonna come along, but the fact is you may have had them all along, your coach just sucks at developing them.

Bottom line is, you've peaked under Harbaugh. He hasn't proven the ability to develop a QB (which was supposed to be his thing), and you can't win big games. It's been 5 years now. Not sure what you're suddenly expecting to happen.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

So, you're saying the picture you just posted is the real image then?

It's certainly closer to it, match the lines on the original broadcast:


They certainly aren't running down to the corner of the screen.

 

[Across The Field]

It's certainly closer to it, match the lines on the original broadcast:

I ask because in the image you posted, he undoubtedly has the line. Looking where he was holding the ball, he easily got the ball to the line, which is all you need to do, so it looks like the spot was good either way you cut it.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

You've had an elite QB prospect that was a projected first rounder that your coach basically ruined. You've also had several other 4* guys that have amounted to nothing. You've also had several 4* RBs that have, again, amounted to nothing because you can't develop RBs. You keep acting like some magical unicorn QB or RB is gonna come along, but the fact is you may have had them all along, your coach just sucks at developing them.

Bottom line is, you've peaked under Harbaugh. He hasn't proven the ability to develop a QB (which was supposed to be his thing), and you can't win big games. It's been 5 years now. Not sure what you're suddenly expecting to happen.

Yeah, we've had the prospects but not the play on the field. I'd totally agree that Harbaugh hasn't proven he can develop a QB. But he has proven the ability to develop NFL guys all over the field. So I don't necessarily think that's a Harbaugh issue just yet.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I ask because in the image you posted, he undoubtedly has the line. Looking where he was holding the ball, he easily got the ball to the line, which is all you need to do, so it looks like the spot was good either way you cut it.

The michigan guy tackling him is inside the line, so he's clearly short.