Gary 'The Glove' Payton: The NBA is soft!

[lakersrule]

Enough with the generational comparisons. The good and great players of any generation would be just as good or great in another. The human body has not evolved over a few generations into a bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic one. Training, medical, and nutritional techniques have.

 

[Hitman Hart]

Where did I say fighting was ok? Scraps, shoving matches are part of the game. Any game. Take them away and it's soft IMO.

When Rudy T got laid out? Not okay.
Artest's tantrum? Not okay

LJ/Alonzo fight? Priceless!! But no one really landed any punches. Van Gundy being dragged around by Zo's leg..

Yes I miss that part of the game and Yes it's too bad these kids would flip out and shoot someone.

As a Hornets fan, it was pretty surreal to watch former LJ and Zo go after each other like that.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

The annual "we walked uphill in the snow to the basketball court there and back"

death, taxes, and some old fart trying to say his era is better because our memory of something gets upgraded.
Nostalgia is dangerous. And we tend to rely on it way too much.
The reality is that there was 85% weak ass nobody players in that generation as well.

We only focus on the superstars and easily preserved highlights.
The crappy unwatchable junk just gets erased from our memories AND we cling to the polished memories.

And that becomes the false narrative about something in the past.

 

[podsox]

the nba regular season is nearly unwatchable. u get maybe 10 interesting games all yr and they really don't mean anything

 

[trojanfan12]

Seriously though, these guys need to give it a rest. Every generation there is a shift in play and there is always a previous generation to bitch about it.

Well then, if this is what old guys have always done. It seems like the young guys need to give it a rest and quit crying about what they know is gonna happen anyway.

And get off my lawn.

 

[bksballer89]

Well then, if this is what old guys have always done. It seems like the young guys need to give it a rest and quit crying about what they know is gonna happen anyway.

And get off my lawn.

LOL I don't think anyone is going to "give it a rest"when some old fart is completely make up bullshit and obvious lies to those who watch basketball. I'm sure guarding Steph Curry is so easy.....all you have to do is play some full court press and that will magically stop him lmao seriously. There were a whole bunch of made up shit in Oscar Robertson comments

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL I don't think anyone is going to "give it a rest"when some old fart is completely make up bullshit and obvious lies to those who watch basketball. I'm sure guarding Steph Curry is so easy.....all you have to do is play some full court press and that will magically stop him lmao seriously. There were a whole bunch of made up shit in Oscar Robertson comments

Young guys need to Let it Go and remember that in a few years, they'll be the one's bitching about the younger generation.


Young guys also need to learn that just because they don't like what someone says, doesn't make it a bunch of made up bullshit.

 

[bksballer89]

Young guys need to Let it Go and remember that in a few years, they'll be the one's bitching about the younger generation.


Young guys also need to learn that just because they don't like what someone says, doesn't make it a bunch of made up bullshit.

Saying the coaches today doesn't understand basketball or defense is a lie. Saying teams only run 1 or 2 plays is another lie. The no double screens is another lie.



The funniest thing is how he brought up how he used to be double in the 60's. I'm sure he didn't have a Klay Thompson on his team. Doubling Curry would be the stupidest defensive strategy against the Warriors. Klay, Iggy, Barnes, and Draymond would have a field day and you would likely end up losing by 20+ points. The whole discrediting Curry shooting is just trash. I'm sure if all you needed to do to stop Steph was "get up on him" or full court press him, the guy would have been shut down 4 years ago.

 

[trojanfan12]

aying the coaches today doesn't understand basketball or defense is a lie. Saying teams only run 1 or 2 plays is another lie. The no double screens is another lie.

No, that's called an opinion. It may not be one you agree with, it may not even be correct. But that doesn't make it a lie.

It's like when you go on your rants bitching about the refs. I don't agree with you most of the time and I think you are wrong about it quite a bit, but I don't think you're lying.

 

[bksballer89]

Matt Moore from CBS on Oscar Robertson comments:

So I'm not a former NBA player, let alone one of the greatest NBA players of all time. Oscar Robertson has forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever know. One thing I do know? Most of this stuff is simply not accurate. There are massive scouting reports, with detailed breakdowns of what each player's tendencies are. There are breakdowns, but there's also a lot of work that goes into taking away a team's strengths.

And if that was one play, it would be one thing. But that's a play the Warriors run all the time. If anything, the rule changes in the NBA have forced more weakside action, better screening activity and more complex sets.

Watch enough of the Warriors and you see players picking up Curry at half-court and keeping a hand on him the entire possession. The Nuggets' Jameer Nelson face-guarded Curry every possession he was assigned to him. Curry's able to get open because keeping that level of attention up is difficult, and because of the Warriors' crushing screen schemes which create separation from him.

Some teams, like, oh, say, the Rockets, struggle immensely to cover Curry off the ball due to personnel and attention problems. For the most part, though, Curry's just great.

 

[trojanfan12]

Matt Moore from CBS on Oscar Robertson comments:

So I'm not a former NBA player, let alone one of the greatest NBA players of all time. Oscar Robertson has forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever know. One thing I do know? Most of this stuff is simply not accurate. There are massive scouting reports, with detailed breakdowns of what each player's tendencies are. There are breakdowns, but there's also a lot of work that goes into taking away a team's strengths.

And if that was one play, it would be one thing. But that's a play the Warriors run all the time. If anything, the rule changes in the NBA have forced more weakside action, better screening activity and more complex sets.

Watch enough of the Warriors and you see players picking up Curry at half-court and keeping a hand on him the entire possession. The Nuggets' Jameer Nelson face-guarded Curry every possession he was assigned to him. Curry's able to get open because keeping that level of attention up is difficult, and because of the Warriors' crushing screen schemes which create separation from him.

Some teams, like, oh, say, the Rockets, struggle immensely to cover Curry off the ball due to personnel and attention problems. For the most part, though, Curry's just great.

@Oscar getting young guys panties all in a bunch. Claiming he's just bitter and doesn't know what he's talking about. Yet, his comments are all they want to talk about.

And the best part is, young guys don't even get how it makes them look like a bunch of crybabies.

 

[bksballer89]

No, that's called an opinion. It may not be one you agree with, it may not even be correct. But that doesn't make it a lie.

It's like when you go on your rants bitching about the refs. I don't agree with you most of the time and I think you are wrong about it quite a bit, but I don't think you're lying.

It's called not watching basketball. It is not an opinion when the proof is in the pudding (when I bitch about the refs, I back it up with video or just refer to the NBA ref report the following day where they usually acknowledge the call(s) were incorrect). If you watch several games of basketball and unless you have a very very low basketball IQ, it is quite obvious that teams are running several sets and several plays. Coaches are using different defensive strategies to take players out of the game or to slow down a specific player

 

[trojanfan12]

It's called not watching basketball. It is not an opinion when the proof is in the pudding (when I bitch about the refs, I back it up with video or just refer to the NBA ref report the following day where they usually acknowledge the call(s) were incorrect). If you watch several games of basketball and unless you have a very very low basketball IQ, it is quite obvious that teams are running several sets and several plays. Coaches are using different defensive strategies to take players out of the game or to slow down a specific player

No, it's called an opinion. Pretty hilarious how worked up you get over comments by old guys that you claim are meaningless.

 

[bksballer89]

@Oscar getting young guys panties all in a bunch. Claiming he's just bitter and doesn't know what he's talking about. Yet, his comments are all they want to talk about.

And the best part is, young guys don't even get how it makes them look like a bunch of crybabies.

I think the only person who looks bad out of this is Robertson because pretty much none of the points he made were valid and most of them were a lie. You can't say teams/players today don't do this and that but yet the games tell a different story.

Since you think Robertson knows it all, I would love to hear your opinion how doubling Curry with that supporting cast and those shooters will turn out.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think the only person who looks bad out of this is Robertson because pretty much none of the points he made were valid and most of them were a lie. You can't say teams/players today don't do this and that but yet the games tell a different story.

Since you think Robertson knows it all, I would love to hear your opinion how doubling Curry with that supporting cast and those shooters will turn out.

I disagree. You and all of the young guys who are bitching and crying about Oscar's comments look way worse than he does. Your panties are all twisted because of the comments of some guy who's 175 years old and that you claim don't matter anyway. This may even be more lame than when you blame refs for losses.

 

[trojanfan12]

(when I bitch about the refs, I back it up with video or just refer to the NBA ref report the following day where they usually acknowledge the call(s) were incorrect).

You have actually blamed refs for losses. I guess you were lying rather than just expressing an opinion.

 

[bksballer89]

I disagree. You and all of the young guys who are bitching and crying about Oscar's comments look way worse than he does. Your panties are all twisted because of the comments of some guy who's 175 years old and that you claim don't matter anyway. This may even be more lame than when you blame refs for losses.

Do you agree with the old fart lame opinions? Honest answer.

I just read the story again and there is not one thing I agree with him on.....and I've seen basketball analyst/former coaches who are much older than me have the same opinion as I did on Oscar comments so this not a young guy issue.

 

[trojanfan12]

Do you agree with the old fart lame opinions? Honest answer.

I just read the story again and there is not one thing I agree with him on.....and I've seen basketball analyst/former coaches who are much older than me have the same opinion as I did on Oscar comments

I do not agree with his comments in total because I believe he was overstating to make a point. Kind of like when my wife see's a spider and exaggerates how big it is (there's never been one in our house smaller than a Great Dane). When I go to take care of it, there is in fact, a spider. But it's always much smaller than she says it is.

I think the game has become mainly 3's and dunks. You and I have actually talked about the disappearance of the mid-range game. This makes it appear as though most teams are running very few plays. That may not be a correct observation, but it does look that way quite a bit. In fact, the triangle, really doesn't have any plays. It's about reading what the defense and reacting to that. So technically, it would be accurate to say that teams that have used the triangle ran no plays.

I also think the defense, league wide, is worse than I can ever remember. So, on those comments, I agree with him.

Where I disagree, is when he says it's the coaching. As I posted earlier, I think it's because overall, the league is much younger than it's ever been because there are so many one and done, 2 and done type players.

In Oscar's day, guys came in after being in college for 4 years. By the time they got to the NBA, they were all pretty fundamentally sound and understood defensive principles. It was just a matter of learning at the NBA level. Often times, today's players get to the NBA and still have to be taught the basics that they would learn if they stayed in college.

 

[wildturkey]

The whole thing about hand checking is overblown (not sure it was really a serious defensive tactic so much as it was a way for slower and/or tired guards to do something on defense; besides there's a lot of grabbing and holding that goes uncalled in today's game), but for the sake argument, let's assume that today's NBA players have an easier time blowing by a perimeter defender because hand checking is not allowed. Even if that's the case, NBA defensive schemes these days are far more advanced than they were in the 1980's. Even if you blow by a perimeter defender today, you're immediately met by second and third lines of defense.

Agreed. Handchecking is soooooooooo overblown. The way some people talk about it now you'd think defensive players were given machetes to hack away at any opposing player's wrists. A handcheck is just the defensive player is allowed to use their arm to grab or nudge the offensive player a bit (but not excessively, that's still a foul). Players used this on the perimeter to slow guards down BRIEFLY because it allowed the defensive player to knock the guard off his path a bit so he could catch back up to get in a defensive position.

Would this hurt some guards today? Sure. Would it hurt Steph Curry? Unlikely. Go watch John Stockton. He slaughtered teams in the handcheck era with that vicious Malone pick and roll because he had superior handling and ball skills. Curry's handle is absurd, just as good (likely better) than Stockton yet Curry is a far better shooter. Pick your poison on that. So even if he is grabbed trying to navigate a pick, he still has the option to shoot because the defender has chosen to handcheck, meaning his hand is down trying to grab. Congratulations, you just gave the best shooter in NBA history an AND 1. That's why its ridiculous people try to put an asterisk on Curry because eras or rules whatever. Look at his skillset. He has an answer for everything. That's true greatness that only a handful of players have ever achieved. When all these older players say "Not taking anything away from Steph" and then immediately follow up saying the NBA was tougher back *insert old timer's era*, that's taking something away from him. It's heavily implying Curry isn't as good because the league isn't as good. Nonsense. We're witnessing something special. If someone can't appreciate that, just keep quiet.

 

[tlance]

The other point to make here, and perhaps somebody has already, is that the 3 point line drastically impacts defensive strategy.

In Oscar's day, defenses would not have to extend nearly as far. If Steph wants to pull from 30+ feet, go right ahead. He might hit that shot between 35-40%, but if it is only worth two points, I will take my chances with allowing it. Oscar's point about defenses not extending far enough is somewhat ironic. Players in the 60s were not a threat to shoot from that deep because it was only worth 2.