Gary 'The Glove' Payton: The NBA is soft!

[bksballer89]

Yes, I'm sure all-time greats and hall of famers have a problem with jealousy.

Saying none of the coaches in the league can coach and that every player in the league can only shoot 3s or dunk make you look like a fucking idiot who sit home and doesn't watch games. His comments were incredibly false and hard to take him serious

 

[Robotech]

Yes, I'm sure all-time greats and hall of famers have a problem with jealousy.

Actually, it seems like many of the game's greatest are so egotistical that they do have problems with jealousy. Look at Michael Jordan. He despised Reggie Theus because Theus briefly dated Juanita Jordan before she met Michael.

 

[trojanfan12]

Saying none of the coaches in the league can coach and that every player in the league can only shoot 3s or dunk make you look like a fucking idiot who sit home and doesn't watch games. His comments were incredibly false and hard to take him serious

No, it doesn't. It's an opinion. The same things we spew on here all the time. The difference is, he's actually played in the league and is an all-time great.

Also, he's not entirely wrong. It has become a league of pretty much dunks and 3's. Many of us in here, you included, have talked about the disappearance of the mid-range game.

Your constant bitching every time an all-time great makes a comment that criticizes today's players is far more tiring than the old guys complaining.

 

[trojanfan12]

Actually, it seems like many of the game's greatest are so egotistical that they do have problems with jealousy. Look at Michael Jordan. He despised Reggie Theus because Theus briefly dated Juanita Jordan before she met Michael.

Yes, because that actually has anything to do with the discussion.

 

[bksballer89]

If I'm a coach in this league it is hard to respect a guy who just said this "I just don't think coaches today in basketball understand the game of basketball. They don't know anything about defenses. They don't know what people are doing on the court.

I'm sure Pop doesn't understand basketball. Same goes for Brad Stephens, Doc Rivers, Spo, Terry Stouts, Rick Carlisle, and the other good coaches we have in this league.

"There have been some great shooters in the past. ... But here again, when I played years ago, if you shot a shot outside and hit it, the next time I'm going to be up on top of you. I'm going to pressure you with three-quarters, half-court defense. But now they don't do that. These coaches do not understand the game of basketball, as far as I'm concerned."

Another lie. I don't watch Warriors game from start to finish but I'm sure there are quite a few times where guys pressure Curry from full court. Heck last night anytime Miami had Richardson in the game, he was picking up Curry full court. It is not that these coaches doesn't understand basketball. They're doing the logical thing. You can't play full court press for 48 minutes and expect to be efficient on offense. It does not work that way.

"I think Golden State and some other teams play very well, but look at the game of basketball," he said. "They run one play. Well, maybe two plays. They've got a high-pick with the center, then the shooters run baseline trying to get open with blocks from the forwards. I mean that's it. You don't see hardly any reverse plays at all, no double screens, no weak side and whatnot."

Yet another lie. Only the top offensive teams have a limited playbook. as some teams opt to give great players such as Curry and Lebron more freedom. Teams with shooters run double screens nightly. I can't even count the amount of double screens GSW set in the 4th quarter of the game last night.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm sure Pop doesn't understand basketball. Same goes for Brad Stephens, Doc Rivers, Spo, Terry Stouts, Rick Carlisle, and the other good coaches we have in this league.

He specifically targeted defenses and he's not entirely wrong. There are a few teams that play top notch defense, but most teams in the league do not. Where I disagree with him is that it's the coaching. It's more about how much younger players are when they enter the league. Defense is always harder for players to learn. In his day, guys played in college for 4 years. Most of the top players today have 1, maybe 2 years of college. They come in to the NBA still needing to learn basic fundamentals. This is why the better defensive teams like the Spurs, Warriors, Cavs, etc. tend to be more veteran teams.

Another lie. I don't watch Warriors game from start to finish but I'm sure there are quite a few times where guys pressure Curry from full court. Heck last night anytime Miami had Richardson in the game, he was picking up Curry full court. It is not that these coaches doesn't understand basketball. They're doing the logical thing. You can't play full court press for 48 minutes and expect to be efficient on offense. It does not work that way.

So, you use one game as your proof that he's wrong? I watch a lot of different games (as I know you do to) and I'm amazed at how many times guys are left wide open at the 3-point line and how often players get virtually uncontested dunks or layups because players don't know how to rotate properly or communicate on defense. I have actually turned games off because the defense was so bad. Another symptom, imo, of the one and done's.

Yet another lie. Only the top offensive teams have a limited playbook. as some teams opt to give great players such as Curry and Lebron more freedom. Teams with shooters run double screens nightly. I can't even count the amount of double screens GSW set in the 4th quarter of the game last night.

So, he says that teams are running limited playbooks, you say he's lying and then say, the top offensive teams have limited playbooks.

 

[Robotech]

If I'm a coach in this league it is hard to respect a guy who just said this "I just don't think coaches today in basketball understand the game of basketball. They don't know anything about defenses. They don't know what people are doing on the court.

I'm sure Pop doesn't understand basketball. Same goes for Brad Stephens, Doc Rivers, Spo, Terry Stouts, Rick Carlisle, and the other good coaches we have in this league.

"There have been some great shooters in the past. ... But here again, when I played years ago, if you shot a shot outside and hit it, the next time I'm going to be up on top of you. I'm going to pressure you with three-quarters, half-court defense. But now they don't do that. These coaches do not understand the game of basketball, as far as I'm concerned."

Another lie. I don't watch Warriors game from start to finish but I'm sure there are quite a few times where guys pressure Curry from full court. Heck last night anytime Miami had Richardson in the game, he was picking up Curry full court. It is not that these coaches doesn't understand basketball. They're doing the logical thing. You can't play full court press for 48 minutes and expect to be efficient on offense. It does not work that way.

"I think Golden State and some other teams play very well, but look at the game of basketball," he said. "They run one play. Well, maybe two plays. They've got a high-pick with the center, then the shooters run baseline trying to get open with blocks from the forwards. I mean that's it. You don't see hardly any reverse plays at all, no double screens, no weak side and whatnot."

Yet another lie. Only the top offensive teams have a limited playbook. as some teams opt to give great players such as Curry and Lebron more freedom. Teams with shooters run double screens nightly. I can't even count the amount of double screens GSW set in the 4th quarter of the game last night.

He's like a lot of ex-players who always think that basketball in their day was the best. The latest and perhaps most ridiculous example is Stephen Jackson saying that his '07 We Believe Warriors would beat the current Warriors. Maybe he meant it's possible that the '07 Warriors could win one game if they played twenty or more times, then yes, I will agree with him.

 

[Robotech]

Yes, because that actually has anything to do with the discussion.

LOL, sure it does. Many of these hall of famers are egotistical jerks.

 

[wildturkey]

Oscar Robertson's comments were some of the dumbest I have ever heard an ex basketball player ever say in my life. Seriously, check that man for senility. That was pure "Old Man Yells At Cloud" bullshit. I listened to the interview and he could not be more wrong. It's laughable. He clearly does not watch games.

He said the Warriors only run like one basic play. Total bullshit. Maybe you could say they ran simple stuff with Mark Jackson and get away with it. Not with Kerr. A lot of their stuff is complex with multiple dummy actions. Hell, Zach Lowe just wrote a column last week with gifs showing several sets with multiple actions, all with the intent to leaving the defense's head spinning.

He said Steph is just a good shooter (his tone made it clear he wasn't impressed) and that the only reason he shoots so well is because teams don't play up on him. REALLY? Since he's been in college till now, no one has thought of that, Oscar? Give me a break. Steph can rain on you from anywhere. Go watch the Clippers game from last week (or any Clips/Dubs game). Chris Paul is breathing down Curry's neck and basically fouls him every play with slaps, checks, etc. It's all the stuff old timers claim you need to do. Guess what. Steph Curry still lights it up. Why? Because he's really really fucking good. Deal with it.

He said no one plays defense in the NBA and that the Warriors get so many layups because of it. Wrong on so many levels. NBA defenses are more complex than ever. Just because James Harden is out there doesn't mean other teams don't play defense. One of the interviewers, Ryen Russillo, pushed back on this and asked O "Don't you think they get those layups because they are stretching the floor and confusing the defense?" (That's what's happening). You know what O did? He totally sidestepped the question because he knew he'd been outed.

This was pure bullshit. It's a classic case of a man that is too prideful and arrogant to admit that something else can come along and be just as good or perhaps even better than what he did in his time. Oscar Robertson, great player in his time but clearly one still stuck in time.

 

[BrockForBroglio]

LOL @ teenagers telling me "they didn't play defense back then. bull SHIT!!!

Oscar Robinson was on Mike & Mike a couple days ago and basically said the same thing. He said that team like Golden State would get pummeled physically back in the day. No post up 3's would be allowed.

 

[BrockForBroglio]

Oscar Robertson's comments were some of the dumbest I have ever heard an ex basketball player ever say in my life. Seriously, check that man for senility. That was pure "Old Man Yells At Cloud" bullshit. I listened to the interview and he could not be more wrong. It's laughable. He clearly does not watch games.

He said the Warriors only run like one basic play. Total bullshit. Maybe you could say they ran simple stuff with Mark Jackson and get away with it. Not with Kerr. A lot of their stuff is complex with multiple dummy actions. Hell, Zach Lowe just wrote a column last week with gifs showing several sets with multiple actions, all with the intent to leaving the defense's head spinning.

He said Steph is just a good shooter (his tone made it clear he wasn't impressed) and that the only reason he shoots so well is because teams don't play up on him. REALLY? Since he's been in college till now, no one has thought of that, Oscar? Give me a break. Steph can rain on you from anywhere. Go watch the Clippers game from last week (or any Clips/Dubs game). Chris Paul is breathing down Curry's neck and basically fouls him every play with slaps, checks, etc. It's all the stuff old timers claim you need to do. Guess what. Steph Curry still lights it up. Why? Because he's really really fucking good. Deal with it.

He said no one plays defense in the NBA and that the Warriors get so many layups because of it. Wrong on so many levels. NBA defenses are more complex than ever. Just because James Harden is out there doesn't mean other teams don't play defense. One of the interviewers, Ryen Russillo, pushed back on this and asked O "Don't you think they get those layups because they are stretching the floor and confusing the defense?" (That's what's happening). You know what O did? He totally sidestepped the question because he knew he'd been outed.

This was pure bullshit. It's a classic case of a man that is too prideful and arrogant to admit that something else can come along and be just as good or perhaps even better than what he did in his time. Oscar Robertson, great player in his time but clearly one still stuck in time.

These teams today would nevermake it against the teams fro the 80's, with the 80's rules. there was so much hand checking, not all this ticky-tacky shit. Steph would be on his as so much back then he would be looking for help. defenses back then were SO much more physical. No way a team from today competes with the Celtics, Lakers, Trailblazers, Rockets Pistons of the 80's.

 

[Robotech]

Oscar Robertson's comments were some of the dumbest I have ever heard an ex basketball player ever say in my life. Seriously, check that man for senility. That was pure "Old Man Yells At Cloud" bullshit. I listened to the interview and he could not be more wrong. It's laughable. He clearly does not watch games.

He said the Warriors only run like one basic play. Total bullshit. Maybe you could say they ran simple stuff with Mark Jackson and get away with it. Not with Kerr. A lot of their stuff is complex with multiple dummy actions. Hell, Zach Lowe just wrote a column last week with gifs showing several sets with multiple actions, all with the intent to leaving the defense's head spinning.

He said Steph is just a good shooter (his tone made it clear he wasn't impressed) and that the only reason he shoots so well is because teams don't play up on him. REALLY? Since he's been in college till now, no one has thought of that, Oscar? Give me a break. Steph can rain on you from anywhere. Go watch the Clippers game from last week (or any Clips/Dubs game). Chris Paul is breathing down Curry's neck and basically fouls him every play with slaps, checks, etc. It's all the stuff old timers claim you need to do. Guess what. Steph Curry still lights it up. Why? Because he's really really fucking good. Deal with it.

He said no one plays defense in the NBA and that the Warriors get so many layups because of it. Wrong on so many levels. NBA defenses are more complex than ever. Just because James Harden is out there doesn't mean other teams don't play defense. One of the interviewers, Ryen Russillo, pushed back on this and asked O "Don't you think they get those layups because they are stretching the floor and confusing the defense?" (That's what's happening). You know what O did? He totally sidestepped the question because he knew he'd been outed.

This was pure bullshit. It's a classic case of a man that is too prideful and arrogant to admit that something else can come along and be just as good or perhaps even better than what he did in his time. Oscar Robertson, great player in his time but clearly one still stuck in time.

I believe you're right about NBA defenses being more complex than ever. Guys like Barkley, Payton, Rodman, and others who think that defense in the past was better are not supported by the numbers. Offenses scored more in the '80s and '90s. Today's NBA defenses are allowing less points even though 3-point shooting is the best it's ever been in the history of the NBA. It's because defenses in the NBA are faster and more athletic than they've ever been and they have more strategy and tactics these days, including zone defense.

Also, just because players could get away with more dirty plays in the '80s and '90s doesn't necessarily mean that the game was overall more physical in those days.

 

[Robotech]

These teams today would nevermake it against the teams fro the 80's, with the 80's rules. there was so much hand checking, not all this ticky-tacky shit. Steph would be on his as so much back then he would be looking for help. defenses back then were SO much more physical. No way a team from today competes with the Celtics, Lakers, Trailblazers, Rockets Pistons of the 80's.

Believe it or not, but today's players are in much better shape. LeBron would be a beast if he played in the '80s. Even Stephen Curry can deadlift 400 pounds. Regarding Stephen, the only rule change that would really affect him is if you took away the three-point line.

 

[Robotech]

These teams today would nevermake it against the teams fro the 80's, with the 80's rules. there was so much hand checking, not all this ticky-tacky shit. Steph would be on his as so much back then he would be looking for help. defenses back then were SO much more physical. No way a team from today competes with the Celtics, Lakers, Trailblazers, Rockets Pistons of the 80's.

The whole thing about hand checking is overblown (not sure it was really a serious defensive tactic so much as it was a way for slower and/or tired guards to do something on defense; besides there's a lot of grabbing and holding that goes uncalled in today's game), but for the sake argument, let's assume that today's NBA players have an easier time blowing by a perimeter defender because hand checking is not allowed. Even if that's the case, NBA defensive schemes these days are far more advanced than they were in the 1980's. Even if you blow by a perimeter defender today, you're immediately met by second and third lines of defense.

 

[tlance]

I believe you're right about NBA defenses being more complex than ever. Guys like Barkley, Payton, Rodman, and others who think that defense in the past was better are not supported by the numbers. Offenses scored more in the '80s and '90s. Today's NBA defenses are allowing less points even though 3-point shooting is the best it's ever been in the history of the NBA. It's because defenses in the NBA are faster and more athletic than they've ever been and they have more strategy and tactics these days, including zone defense.

Also, just because players could get away with more dirty plays in the '80s and '90s doesn't necessarily mean that the game was overall more physical in those days.

Bingo!

THe game is still very physical today, just in different ways. Watch a game from the 80s. When a player drive and their was contact, the whistle blow. Today, there is a lot of incidental contact on those plays that does not get called.

They took out the non-basketball plays and hand checking and everyone acts like the game has gone no contact. Really though, it is just talk. The game is still very physical, and nobody here talking shit about it would be physically able to withstand he rigors of an NBA season.

 

[tlance]

Wow. That was semi-incoherent. You all know what I mean though.

 

[ChrisGar15]

Good comment from Steve Kerr about what Oscar said:

“Oh I’m sure, yeah. I could have stopped this back in my time,” Kerr said, according to Fox Sports. “Boy, I would have shut Steph down. Because athletes, you know, 50 years ago were much bigger, stronger and faster, more finely tuned. So Steph might not have made it in the league.”​

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL, sure it does. Many of these hall of famers are egotistical jerks.

Being egotistical and jealous are not the same thing.

 

[tlance]

Good comment from Steve Kerr about what Oscar said:

“Oh I’m sure, yeah. I could have stopped this back in my time,” Kerr said, according to Fox Sports. “Boy, I would have shut Steph down. Because athletes, you know, 50 years ago were much bigger, stronger and faster, more finely tuned. So Steph might not have made it in the league.”​

I love Steve Kerr. He is hilarious.

 

[CitySushi]

Old guys gonna old guy.

Seriously though, these guys need to give it a rest. Every generation there is a shift in play and there is always a previous generation to bitch about it.

These guys don't take into account how much better, stronger, faster, and skilled players are today compared to the guys they faced. If you honestly put today's Sixer team back in the 60's, most teams just wouldn't be able to match up with their sheer athleticism and speed.