Free agent targets Offseason Armchair GM Thread

[Cmon_WTF]

ohhh boyyyyyy. this could be good, or it could be the start of my 2nd most hated sharks offseaon... Im pretty scared bout it actually

I'm leaning towards the bolded.

 

[SJVP408]

Cmon, do you see a scenario where an acquistion of Rick Nash is a good thing? The guy isn't a bad player, he's just overpaid. I think I am trying to convince myself that Nash will be a good pick up lol.

I think if the Sharks can get rid of one of the fat contracts in exchange for Nash, it wouldn't be so horrible cap wise. Also, if they didn't have to give up anyone under 27 years of age. I would think Pavelski would be the centerpiece because no way Doug gives up Couture.

 

[MrChangoT97]

I don't see Nash getting traded to the Sharks, "unless" and I'm dreaming its Niemi, Demers/Braun, Clowe, & a 1st round pick.

Other than that, I say Doug goes after Suter hard!

 

[Likewall32]

I don't see Nash getting traded to the Sharks, "unless" and I'm dreaming its Niemi, Demers/Braun, Clowe, & a 1st round pick.

Other than that, I say Doug goes after Suter hard!

lets hope your right

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Cmon, do you see a scenario where an acquistion of Rick Nash is a good thing? The guy isn't a bad player, he's just overpaid. I think I am trying to convince myself that Nash will be a good pick up lol.

I think if the Sharks can get rid of one of the fat contracts in exchange for Nash, it wouldn't be so horrible cap wise. Also, if they didn't have to give up anyone under 27 years of age. I would think Pavelski would be the centerpiece because no way Doug gives up Couture.

As far as skill set and team needs go in the top six Nash would be a good addition. The problem is his contract and what the Sharks would have to give up for him expands the more pressing issue of team depth beyond the top six.

The only scenerio I see where it works is if there is a major overhaul of the roster, top to bottom. And still it only works if, and this is a huge if, Wilson can get the necessary pieces through UFA and those subsiquent trades. I'm talking moving out Clowe, Niemi, Murray, Boyle, Handzus, Pavelski who'll most likely get moved in the Nash trade, and possibly Marleau. That kind of turnover in itself is a bad thing IMO and often doesn't result in much success.

 

[SJVP408]

Could a move for Nash be thought of as a move for the future? Marleau and Thornton have two more years remaining on their current deals which end when they are 34. Nash is currently 28 and his deal runs to when he's 34. Doug might want Nash as part of the core for the future.

 

[sjrules99]

For me, the problem with nash is that it does not address the key problems for hte sharks:

1. The PK.
2. The complete dearth beyond the bottom 6.
3. The lack of depth offensively from the D.

These three issues seem, to me, to be the most pressing needs and nash does nothing to help, and may in fact, hurt, depending on what is moved. The only kind of dela that I would support is a package with patty going for nash, since that would simply move one top 3 forward for another with similar salary and much younger. However, I can't see the BJ's accepting anything with patty in it, so I dunno how dougie can do it without a second or third blockbuster this summer. it's hard to pull off one biggy, let alone 3.

Dougie's priorities IMO this summer need to be:

1. Get a coach who can kill a Penalty and motivate better. Whether that means letting Tmac go, or bringing in a specialist assistant matters little to me. This has to be priority number 1.

2. Get a solid, scary 3rd line. When the sharks have the sundstrom-ricci third line, it was huge. Same with last year as pavs and wellwood were very effective on the 3rd line. This year, moore, galiardi, zues, mitchell, winnik, or whoever was on that line was completely ineffective and that was a total killer to the team.

3. Get a solid two way Dman who can skate, pass and shoot. they need to jettison alot of the dead weight who are just too slow. Murray, vandy, white specifically, and bring in a player like burns who can play at both ends. This is the hardest of the 3 priorities to accomplish, so I think signing suter or trading for a player like Subban (for patty straight up???) should be a top action.

I fail to see hpow killing depth further and weaking other positions to bring in Nash is going to accomplish much. Unless the deal dumps our junk like murray or even nemo, without significantly hurting the forwards, then I dont want it. I would rather trade those guys for top line help on D, or good young forwards who can help for a while and wont kill the cap

 

[SJVP408]

I was entertaining the idea that a move for Nash is not a win now type of move. If Doug thinks this core is no good, make a move for Nash, don't expect to contend until Patty, Jumbo, Boyle are out. At that point the core is Nash, Couture, Burns, Vlasic, then move on from there.

 

[MrChangoT97]

I say Doug has to throw ALL of his chips in and go for it this year, Once he decides on the coaching staff. We all know Doug will not trade Thornton, Marleau, Boyle, Burns, Vlasic, Couture. I know a lot of you want Patty gone, but I don't see it happening. Also Doug needs to let the rookies understand there will be no chance of making the big club, unless its due too injury. Doug needs NHL vets not rookies.

If Doug pulls off a trade to land Nash, you know it will be Pavelski, Niemi, Braun or Demers and a 1st round pick at least.

If Doug Doesn't trade for Nash, he needs to get Ryan Suter, nuff said.

I know cap space is alittle over 8mil, but I like to see these moves or something like this. "I'm not even looking at money wise"

Sign Ryan Suter 5 yr deal
Sign Brad Stuart 2 yr deal
Sign Daniel Winnick 2 yr deal
Sign TJ Galardi 1yr deal
Sign Travis Moen 2yr deal
Sign a Right Handed RW that is a sniper "Brad Boyes?"
Sign Ryan Smyth 1 yr deal

Trade Murray "hate to do it, but its bussiness"
Trade Niemi
Let Mitchell, Ferreiro, Moore, White, Vandermeer walk

Couture, Thornton, Pavelski
Havlat, Marleau, Boyes / mystery RW
Clowe, Galardi, Smyth
Moen, Desardin / Handzus, Winnick

Suter , Burns
Vlasic , Boyle
Stuart , Braun

Stalock , Griess

Awh, what a line up! NEVER GONNA HAPPEN, but I'm bored right now.

 

[filosofy29]

I was entertaining the idea that a move for Nash is not a win now type of move. If Doug thinks this core is no good, make a move for Nash, don't expect to contend until Patty, Jumbo, Boyle are out. At that point the core is Nash, Couture, Burns, Vlasic, then move on from there.

That would be an interesting idea. I'm not sure if the reports were correct, but supposedly ownership was split on whether or not to retain DWil. I'm guessing (ala assuming it's true) he's going for the reload approach more than the build the next core approach. I would assume that Clowe is as good as gone for a couple reasons. DWil has seemed to take the team building approach of speed and skating ability. Also, the Sharks need more goal scoring over playmaking. I would hazard a guess that Clowe, Murray and Niemi may not be Sharks next season, but I think they'll hold on to Pavelski (he can at least keep puck possession up with his FO ability, he's a decent PK'er and he scores goals.....unless it's against the Blues, lol).
My pesonal opinion is that I don't want Rick Nash. Under the working assumption that Marleau and Thornton probably aren't going anywhere and neither is Boyle, that's one too many fat contracts. Since I'd really want Thornton AND Marleau gone, but I know that's not happening, I hope they do something like this:

Trades:
To MTL: Ryane Clowe and Jason Demers (combined salary of $4.875M)
To SJ: Erik Cole ($4.5M)

To TB: Antii Niemi and Douglas Murray ($6.3M)
To SJ: Ryan Malone ($4.5M cap hit but only going to get paid $3M, $2.5M and $2.5M for the next 3 years)

RFA/UFA Signings:
Sign Stoll to a 3 year, $7.5M deal.
Sign Galiardi to a 1 year, $.75M deal.
Sign Prust to a 3 year, $3M deal.
Signa Stuart to a 3 year, $7.5M deal.
Sign Zanon to a 1 year, $1.25M deal.
Sign Sanford to a 1 year, $.65M deal.

Roster:
Pavelski ($4M) - Thornton ($7M) - Cole ($4.5M)
Couture ($2.875M) - Marleau ($6.9M) - Havlat ($5M)
Malone ($4.5M) - Stoll ($2.5M) - Wingels (.75M)
Galiardi ($.75M) - Handzus ($2.5M) - Prust ($1M)

Vlasic ($3.1M) - Burns ($5.76M)
Stuart ($2.5M) - Boyle ($6.667M)
Zanon ($1.25M) - Braun ($1.25M)

Curtis Sanford ($.65M)
Thomas Greiss ($.5875M)

$64,042,000 Payroll (approximately).

Good news: This team can skate with Cole, Malone, Stoll and Zanon added. There's some added toughness with Cole, Malone and Prust. The lines are more balanced and the PP in the playoffs should improve with guys like Cole and Malone who go to the net to screen the goalie and dig for rebounds. The defense should be a little more steady in their own end with Stuart and Zanon and Braun should improve with one more year of experience. The 3rd and 4th lines have more depth on them than they did last year. With Thornton, Pavelski, Marleau, Couture, Stoll and Handzus on faceoffs, the Sharks should start out with the puck a lot. The PK should be better if they get a good coach and have the forwards and defensemen above as there are a lot of good faceoff folks and speed.

Bad news: The goaltending is shaky at best and Stalock or Sateri may not be ready to jump in and save it. This team has little to no room for additions at the trade deadline unless they sent something back the other way and the depth would have to come from Worcester.....which is scary. There also would be quite a bit of roster turnover as 7 new faces would be in the lineup from last year. Heavy turnover doesn't usually equate to success.

I'm not particularly enamored with the team above, but with Marleau and Thornton in tow, there's not a lot of maneuverability. That said, there would be a lot more effort and blue collar work as well as skating ability. I'm also not sure that the players I signed would take those contracts (i.e. - Stoll and Stuart).

 

[Cmon_WTF]

From the UFA Coaching ranks, AC Mike Haviland has been let go by Chicago. He is expected to be tops among many teams lists as a possible head coaching canidate.

 

[sjrules99]

Why do people want brad stuart? He's over the hill, clearly in decline. he is not good at all in the P's for detroit after a so-so regular season. he is the opposite of what the sharks need except for a very cheap stopgap. Mark my words, just as I said with handzus, if the sharks sign stuart for anything over 2 or 2.5M, we will all be regretting that day and if its a longer deal, or multiyear, there will be buyout talks much like zues. Older slower players like him are clearly not cutting it. I would have thought that we would learn that from watching vandy, white, and murray make excellent cones out there. Stuart would be little different. 1M per is fine, anything more, I say look elsewhere and dont waste your money. Get younger, faster, and better...

The key this offseason is going to be figuring out how to unload murray, niemi, and zues and actually get value in return, if possible. Niemi would be extremely intriguing to a whole bunch of teams including Tor, TBL, CBJ, CHI (hahaha), among several others. if douge plays his cards right, he might be able to package murray or zues with him and land a good player in return.

Burke and carlyle like physicality and are dying for G. Maybe dougie can package all three + the 16th overall pick for Phaneuf+Bozak. It's a salary wash for both teams (3.8+2.5+2.5 = 8.8M from SJ for 6.5+1.5 = 8M from TOR). The sharks get a 3rd #1 Dman, who plays a physical game like murray but brings so much more to the table and is just the right age along with a solid top 6 forward. TOR gets the franchise goalie they desperately need, a strong defensive precense, something they obviously lacked, as well as a FO and PK specialist who had a bad year, but is a low risk play, not to mention a valuable mid 1st rounder.

If that deal were not possible, then dougie could still drop zues and the 1st and replace him with clowe. (Clowe+Murray+Niemi for Phaneuf+Bozak.) this is probably more realistic as clowe and muray are carlyle/burke style guys, and they still fill their #1 need. of course they would like a #1 C, but I am assuming patty is not an option here.

Whatever deal dougie pulls off, he needs to package nemo with at least one of hte bad salaries and try to bring in 27 or younger top 6 Forward or top 4 D talent in return. It is possible given that the only other #1 goalie on the market with any pedigree is luongo and teams will be very wary of adding that contract. Nemo will be the #1 caught after goalie in the trade market, so dougie might be able to pull a quick one.

I am OK rolling the dice on griess for a year if need be. He has looked very solid and his numbers back it up. The farm is full of goalies coming into their own, so it may be risky, but dougie has gotta roll the dice to get younger and better for the long term. The trajectory of this team is not good at all and it's only getting worse and older. Time for a change...

 

[Cbrower91]

Curtis Sanford? Lol come on man, id rather see Nolan Schaffer in net

 

[Cmon_WTF]

You put way to much emphasis on age, Rules.

Stuart is still extremely mobile, he's physical, and he can move the puck really well. Over the past two years his defensive game has shown bit of decline, part of that is being paired with rookies or a guy who takes a lot of risks in Kronwall, but his defense is still at a level much higher than Murray's. He'd be a cheep upgrade in that role without giving up assets to get him. The biggest issue I see with bringing Stuart in is he hasn't played the left side since leaving San Jose. That's where the Sharks biggest weakness is in their defense, they don't have a natural left dman who excels at moving the puck.

Aside from being a god awful dman Phaneuf is more a Burke/Carlyle style player than either of the two you're suggesting trading for him. If the Sharks are looking at getting a dman from Toronto then Liles, Gardiner, Gunnerson should be their targets.

 

[filosofy29]

Curtis Sanford? Lol come on man, id rather see Nolan Schaffer in net

Sanford actually put up some decent starts considering he was playing in front of a terrible Columbus team. He's more of a stop gap just in case Stalock/Sateri isn't ready. Plus, with the trades/signings I proposed, I didn't have any money left, lol.

Aside from being a god awful dman Phaneuf is more a Burke/Carlyle style player than either of the two you're suggesting trading for him. If the Sharks are looking at getting a dman from Toronto then Liles, Gardiner, Gunnerson should be their targets.

I'm not a big fan of Phaneuf either. He no longer fights that much to back up his marginal hits, he's terrible in his own end and was traded by Calgary solely because of locker room issues. He may have gotten rid of some of them while in Toronto (as he was named C), but that team has gotten nowhere with him at the helm. That said, I doubt Gardiner is going anywhere. If anything, I think they'd be willing to deal Liles or Franson.

Would you be ok with a hypothetical trade of:

To TOR: Clowe, Murray and Niemi
To SJ: Kulemin (his rights), Liles and Reimer

 

[sjrules99]

You put way to much emphasis on age, Rules.

Stuart is still extremely mobile, he's physical, and he can move the puck really well. Over the past two years his defensive game has shown bit of decline, part of that is being paired with rookies or a guy who takes a lot of risks in Kronwall, but his defense is still at a level much higher than Murray's. He'd be a cheep upgrade in that role without giving up assets to get him. The biggest issue I see with bringing Stuart in is he hasn't played the left side since leaving San Jose. That's where the Sharks biggest weakness is in their defense, they don't have a natural left dman who excels at moving the puck.

Aside from being a god awful dman Phaneuf is more a Burke/Carlyle style player than either of the two you're suggesting trading for him. If the Sharks are looking at getting a dman from Toronto then Liles, Gardiner, Gunnerson should be their targets.

I dont think so... very few 35+ year olds are still effective. Patty and Jumbo are both clearly in the decline. I think clowe, at 30 with his style of game, is also declining. Murray at 32 is clearly declining. Boyle is pretty incredible to be so good at his age, but his physical battle ability is diminished some too. Dont get me wrong, age isnt everything and there are a few counter examples like a the wizard, nicky lid and the like, but they are extremely rare. Stuart is gunna be 33 early next year, and I wouldnt give him 2+ by any stretch. He is an upgrade over murray but I dont see turning one old slow, rather ineffective player into another one. The sharks need a much more long term solution, and not another 34 year old buyout candidate come 1 year from now.

As for the toronto deal, I was just throwing it out there. Like I posted elsewhere, I think the sharks need 1 more dominant Defensemen who is in his prime for the next 5+ years. Burns is a great start, but not sufficient and demers and braun sure dont look like legit top 4, 2-way, guys for the future. I would be perfectly fine dumping Murray+Niemi+zues for Bozak alone if burke went for it. It would save over 7M in cap space and if dougie used that for suter, then it would be a cap wash achieving the exact same deal. However, the sharks need a young long-term forward to help replace the big boys a couple years from now and provide depth in the near term, and a young top pair defenseman to replace boyle within a couple years. Dougie needs to drop the salary while trying to fill one (or both) of these holes. It's a tough job, but it's key...

 

[SJVP408]

I'm starting to like the idea of trading Boyle to clear cap space for Suter. A Suter/Burns/Vlasic/Stuart top 4 would be very good. This way, Braun and Demers can be brought along slowly, the right way. I really hope Uncle Gary can sway his nephew to go West. Sharks are going to need a lot of help contending with Carter/Richards/Kopitar.

However, trading Boyle would have to happen first. Otherwise, the Sharks would be over the cap and needing to shed salary which instantly brings Boyle's value down. If the Sharks actually trade Boyle then lose out on the Suter sweepstakes...huge fail.

rules, I know what you mean about getting faster and younger, but I think that mainly applies to the forwards. Defensively, the Sharks have slow guys in Murray, and that's it. I'm assuming White and Vandy are not going to be back. If the Sharks can swap out Murray with Stuart, it wouldn't be such a bad idea. No, Stuart isn't a spring chicken anymore, but he's still very smart and plays a good positional game, something Murray cannot say on most nights.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I dont think so... very few 35+ year olds are still effective. Patty and Jumbo are both clearly in the decline. I think clowe, at 30 with his style of game, is also declining. Murray at 32 is clearly declining. Boyle is pretty incredible to be so good at his age, but his physical battle ability is diminished some too. Dont get me wrong, age isnt everything and there are a few counter examples like a the wizard, nicky lid and the like, but they are extremely rare. Stuart is gunna be 33 early next year, and I wouldnt give him 2+ by any stretch. He is an upgrade over murray but I dont see turning one old slow, rather ineffective player into another one. The sharks need a much more long term solution, and not another 34 year old buyout candidate come 1 year from now.

As for the toronto deal, I was just throwing it out there. Like I posted elsewhere, I think the sharks need 1 more dominant Defensemen who is in his prime for the next 5+ years. Burns is a great start, but not sufficient and demers and braun sure dont look like legit top 4, 2-way, guys for the future. I would be perfectly fine dumping Murray+Niemi+zues for Bozak alone if burke went for it. It would save over 7M in cap space and if dougie used that for suter, then it would be a cap wash achieving the exact same deal. However, the sharks need a young long-term forward to help replace the big boys a couple years from now and provide depth in the near term, and a young top pair defenseman to replace boyle within a couple years. Dougie needs to drop the salary while trying to fill one (or both) of these holes. It's a tough job, but it's key...

I haven't seen any decline in either Thornton's or Marleau's game or any reason to believe one is coming anytime soon. Sacraficing offense to play a more well rounded two-way game is not a decline in ability level. Marleau hasn't lost a step and is even playing a little bit more of a physical game. Thornton is as strong along the boards and on the puck as he's ever been. The last two regular seasons have been the best hockey those two have played in their entire careers.

Stuart is still a solid dman. He's a lot more mobile then you give him credit for and when paired with a defensively compitent partner like Burns or put in a limited 3rd pairing role with someone like Braun he can be extremely effective.

Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying (I hope I am) but are you really suggesting Bozak could be a future replacement for either Marleau or Thornton?

 

[Cbrower91]

Sanford actually put up some decent starts considering he was playing in front of a terrible Columbus team. He's more of a stop gap just in case Stalock/Sateri isn't ready. Plus, with the trades/signings I proposed, I didn't have any money left, lol.



I'm not a big fan of Phaneuf either. He no longer fights that much to back up his marginal hits, he's terrible in his own end and was traded by Calgary solely because of locker room issues. He may have gotten rid of some of them while in Toronto (as he was named C), but that team has gotten nowhere with him at the helm. That said, I doubt Gardiner is going anywhere. If anything, I think they'd be willing to deal Liles or Franson.

Would you be ok with a hypothetical trade of:u

To TOR: Clowe, Murray and Niemi
To SJ: Kulemin (his rights), Liles and Reimer

Sanfords numbers look good due to the shear volume of shots he faced. Kind of luongo and vokun, sure they look great in Florida but when they face fewer shots they are horrendous

 

[sjrules99]

I haven't seen any decline in either Thornton's or Marleau's game or any reason to believe one is coming anytime soon. Sacraficing offense to play a more well rounded two-way game is not a decline in ability level. Marleau hasn't lost a step and is even playing a little bit more of a physical game. Thornton is as strong along the boards and on the puck as he's ever been. The last two regular seasons have been the best hockey those two have played in their entire careers.

Stuart is still a solid dman. He's a lot more mobile then you give him credit for and when paired with a defensively compitent partner like Burns or put in a limited 3rd pairing role with someone like Braun he can be extremely effective.

Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying (I hope I am) but are you really suggesting Bozak could be a future replacement for either Marleau or Thornton?

first, to the last point: no, bozak is not a replacement. he's not in either's league. He part of the replacement though. I dont think they need to replace those guys with another nash-like high powered, big money type guy. having 9 very solid forwards is, to me, better than have 4 or 5 real high enders, and 4 pieces o' junk. Last year, the lack of depth up front was a disaster, and it was largely (though not entirely), due to the huge salary of the big two. I have no problem going with a model more like bruins with no forward making more than around 5M, but 3 full very good O lines. Bozak, to me, is a solid top 9 forward, who wont be too expensive and can be part of hte rebuild, nay, retool of the post PM-JT era.

Second, Jumbo and patt have lost a step, to me. The improved D is nice to see, but patty's speed does not look impressive, and more importantly, the wear and tear on the body is there. Its a matter of time, and not a lot of time before they either get a nasty injury or they just lose some more steps and find themselves not anywhere near their salary's worth, if they arent there already.

3rd, stuart is fine as a #5/6 dman. However, the sharks need something much more than that. They need a #1 dman who can play at both ends. Boyle's career is getting close, and burns cannot anchor a D corp-s alone. Pickles is fine in his own end, but nowhere near a 2-way guy, and it was painfully obvious, as it has been for years, that teams with superior opposition D, and 2-way depth on D, have disposed of the sharks easily. Burns and boyle were fine, but the other 4 were disasterous. Suter would be a great start, but that needs to be an area of focus and stuart doesnt solve that problem.