Aaron Hernandez being invested for homicide

[NinerSickness]

I've known alot of gangsters over the years, and not all were bad guys.

 

[erckm510]

 

[-AC-]

I realise that statement might be hard to comprehend, unless you have been in this enviroment...

 

[NinerSickness]

I realise that statement might be hard to comprehend, unless you have been in this enviroment...

Well, if you're literally a "gangster," meaning you're in a "gang" (and I assume you don't mean like the Bloodhound Gang or the "Gang" of eight in the Senate...which would be even worse...) then if you're not regularly committing crimes (like murdering people) you're complicit in the crimes being committed by the people in your gang. I wouldn't exactly call that not being a bad guy. That's the definition of a bad guy.

I just think it's really stupid to have the extremely shallow, Dennis Rodman way of looking at people.

“He loves power. He loves control because others, you know, dad and stuff like that, but he’s just a great guy. He’s just a great guy.” -Dennis Rodman on Kim Jong Un

 

[-AC-]

Well, if you're literally a "gangster," meaning you're in a "gang" (and I assume you don't mean like the Bloodhound Gang or the "Gang" of eight in the Senate...which would be even worse...) then if you're not regularly committing crimes (like murdering people) you're complicit in the crimes being committed by the people in your gang. I wouldn't exactly call that not being a bad guy. That's the definition of a bad guy.

I just think it's really stupid to have the extremely shallow, Dennis Rodman way of looking at people.

“He loves power. He loves control because others, you know, dad and stuff like that, but he’s just a great guy. He’s just a great guy.” -Dennis Rodman on Kim Jong Un

People make mistakes in life. And I'm not talking about repetitve mistakes. I'm referring more to mistakes that at the time you completely believe is the right decision. Like I said, I don't expect anyone who is not familiar with inner city neighborhoods or those who have lived in this situation to understand...

The 'hang em all' attitude is a very naive way of viewing something you do not comprehend. This is a general statement, not an attack against you or anyone else...

(and I'm not talking about Dennis Rodman, I'm talking about real conflicted people that I have dealt with in real life)

 

[JDM]

I think saying everyone in a gang is a bad person is an extreme over simplification.

 

[NinerSickness]

The 'hang em all' attitude is a very naive way of viewing something you do not comprehend. This is a general statement, not an attack against you or anyone else...

We'll just have to disagree with the definition of a "bad guy" then because people who look the other way and / or support others who are murdering people are not good guys in my opinion. I don't care how nice they are to you; they're still complicit with just about the worst things that happen in society.

As far as making "mistakes" they think are the right thing at the time goes: I don't think believing you are right at the time absolves you from being a bad guy. You can still be a self-righteous jackass.

 

[NinerSickness]

I think saying everyone in a gang is a bad person is an extreme over simplification.

A "bad person" isn't exactly a cut & dry concept, but I think it's safe to say that if you're a member of a gang (a real gang), a member of Al Qaeda, in the mafia, in a drug cartel or in any lawless organization that murders people you're a "bad guy."

Like if a small child were pretending to be one of those people he would be the bad guy. And then Spider Man or some other marvel character would come along and kick his pretend ass.

 

[-AC-]

We'll just have to disagree with the definition of a "bad guy" then because people who look the other way and / or support others who are murdering people are not good guys in my opinion. I don't care how nice they are to you; they're still complicit with just about the worst things that happen in society.

As far as making "mistakes" they think are the right thing at the time goes: I don't think believing you are right at the time absolves you from being a bad guy. You can still be a self-righteous jackass.

This view is as extreme as it gets. If you want to look at just the murderers thats fine, I would actually agree with you on that level. But this isn't the case with the majority of your average everyday gang member. Most are guys who just hang out, like to party, and get into the occasional fight (without loss of life). No more than any average kid at that age. Its the association of just being a gang member that people on the outside looking in seem to think every gang member is Ice Cube from 'Boyz in da hood'...

 

[NinerSickness]

This view is as extreme as it gets. If you want to look at just the murderers thats fine, I would actually agree with you on that level. But this isn't the case with the majority of your average everyday gang member. Most are guys who just hang out, like to party, and get into the occasional fight (without loss of life). No more than any average kid at that age. Its the association of just being a gang member that people on the outside looking in seem to think every gang member is Ice Cube from 'Boyz in da hood'...

Ha! I've never seen Boyz in da hood, so I'll have to take your word for it.

If all someone is doing is hanging out & partying I would hesitate to call that guy a gang member. There are just hangers on and wanna-be's, but my qualifier (a real gang) is clearly something different than what you're describing.

That said, if someone really considers himself a member of a gang (with a name) like bloods, etc. I don't think there's a very good chance he's just hangin' out & having beers with his buddies.

 

[-AC-]

Ha! I've never seen Boyz in da hood, so I'll have to take your word for it.

If all someone is doing is hanging out & partying I would hesitate to call that guy a gang member. There are just hangers on and wanna-be's, but my qualifier (a real gang) is clearly something different than what you're describing.

That said, if someone really considers himself a member of a gang (with a name) like bloods, etc. I don't think there's a very good chance he's just hangin' out & having beers with his buddies.

If you get innitiated into a gang, you're officially a member of that gang. Not just a hang around. Again, you lean toward the extreme. Gang life has been glorified through the media for years. If you couple that with the fact that most gang members are minorities, people tend to think toward the extreme. But in reality most are into petty juvenile crimes, and talk more than anything. I lived in the LA area most of my life and have met some pretty violent individuals. But even in the gang culture, they were in the minority...

Of course that goes back to my original point. If you are natural asshole bully, gang life will only intensify those traits. For whatever reason they have their own axes to grind. Whether its to be the baddest around. Or to gain street credit or respect. Or to achieve that same media stigma I just mentioned. It really doesn't matter why, but some like Aaron Hernandez are just natural asshole bullies who have ne regard for others...

 

[jayviabay]

Hernandez was raised as a blood gang member so seeing him act like one is not too surprising. It is just dumb. in fact the new anchor on a local TV channel here for Boston said Hernandez has to be one of the dumbest guys ever.

I wonder if he will claim blood so he can be with his gang in prison instead of general population.

when you go to prison you will be put in a category but it doesnt remove you from general population unless that category is "PCd UP", which basically means you cried that you are scared or suicidal and entered in as Protective Custody.

 

[MHSL82]

http://deadspin.com/people-are-paying-big-bucks-for-aaron-hernandez-jerseys-633146605

 

[JDM]

A "bad person" isn't exactly a cut & dry concept, but I think it's safe to say that if you're a member of a gang (a real gang), a member of Al Qaeda, in the mafia, in a drug cartel or in any lawless organization that murders people you're a "bad guy."

Like if a small child were pretending to be one of those people he would be the bad guy. And then Spider Man or some other marvel character would come along and kick his pretend ass.

A lot of the people aren't involved or complicit in any of that though. I will certainly agree that it is not the optimal decision, but there are many who feel it is, have no choice, but are never actually given specific enough knowledge of illegal activity to prevent it. Some gangs are stricter with membership than others, so if you're in a gang that requires you to have blood on your hands to become a member, sure, you're probably a shitty dude, but some people are simply not educated enough to see better options than some of the rest.

 

[jayviabay]

A lot of the people aren't involved or complicit in any of that though. I will certainly agree that it is not the optimal decision, but there are many who feel it is, have no choice, but are never actually given specific enough knowledge of illegal activity to prevent it. Some gangs are stricter with membership than others, so if you're in a gang that requires you to have blood on your hands to become a member, sure, you're probably a shitty dude, but some people are simply not educated enough to see better options than some of the rest.

This is well said but sometimes it goes deeper than not having specific knowledge or not being educated enough to exercise better options.

Like AC stated, you have to really experience the life in a poverty stricken environment to fully comprehend it in its entirety.

 

[NinerSickness]

If you get innitiated into a gang, you're officially a member of that gang. Not just a hang around. Again, you lean toward the extreme. Gang life has been glorified through the media for years. If you couple that with the fact that most gang members are minorities, people tend to think toward the extreme. But in reality most are into petty juvenile crimes, and talk more than anything.

I don't give 'em a pass if they are into juvenile crimes either. Baby tigers are cute when they're small...

I just think you can't lay down with dogs & not expect to get fleas. The VAST majority of people in gangs are up to no good, and the ones who aren't usually get pulled into it or have to look the other way to avoid consequences. I suppose those same people COULD have been perfectly nice people if they never joined a gang, but that was the choice they made. Bad guys don't just wake up one day & say, "Hey, I've just decided that I want to become a menace to society. I think I'll go steak a car." They make a series of seemingly small mistakes (like joining a gang) & gradually become thus.

Like I said before: if they're just hangin' out & not doing anything wrong I have no problem with their "gang." But it would be extremely naïve to think that the "real" gangs to which I was referring (like the one to which Hernandez belongs) fits that description.

 

[NinerSickness]

Like AC stated, you have to really experience the life in a poverty stricken environment to fully comprehend it in its entirety.

I don't think that's true at all. I just think all you need is some perspective. I lived out of a car for the better part of a decade working full time & sometimes working 3 jobs (to pay off the debt from starting a failed business). I'd say I got a pretty hefty dose of the povery experience, but that experience didn't affect my view about this kind of stuff in the least.

By the way, I'm 2 generations removed from people who were heavily involved in the mafia (like the you-can't-be-made-unless-you're-Italian mafia). And I think it's perfectly fair to say that every single one of the people involved in that organization were "bad guys." They were just Italian versions of gang bangers.

 

[-AC-]

I don't think that's true at all. I just think all you need is some perspective. I lived out of a car for the better part of a decade working full time & sometimes working 3 jobs (to pay off the debt from starting a failed business). I'd say I got a pretty hefty dose of the povery experience, but that experience didn't affect my view about this kind of stuff in the least.

By the way, I'm 2 generations removed from people who were heavily involved in the mafia (like the you-can't-be-made-unless-you're-Italian mafia). And I think it's perfectly fair to say that every single one of the people involved in that organization were "bad guys." They were just Italian versions of gang bangers.

I think the bolded statement is some what amusing, when you consider you have failed to gain "perspective" or even attempted to gain "perspective" for two pages of messages now...

Its a cultural thing, and I don't believe you can grasp this because you are too cut and dry. Your view is some what naive, and you are resistant to expanding your knowledge on the subject. The world is not as black and white as you think, Sick...

Again, I don't believe all gang members are good guys. But I have known enough to know that there is good people amonst them that were just brought up in the wrong enviroment...

Unless you have been in this enviroment, you probally wouldn't or can't understand. I will just exit this conversation, and leave it at that...

 

[NinerSickness]

Again, I don't believe all gang members are good guys. But I have known enough to know that there is good people amonst them that were just brought up in the wrong enviroment...

I don't think you & I see this as differently as you're making it out to be. I think we're talking about 2 different things. I agree with this quote, but I also think the wrong environment can turn an other wise good guy bad. And I think it usually does.

 

[yossarian]

Yep. That's why my statement was spot on. We encouraged the poor boy to become a murdering thug. Its our fault.

I don't think the point of the article was to excuse his behavior, he was saying that now athletes have to mimic gangster behavior to have credibility, whereas in earlier times it was enough just to be DiMaggio, or Ali, or Clemente. He called him a sociopath in the article, that's hardly a word that gets him off the hook.