Aaron Hernandez being invested for homicide

[jayviabay]

I don't give 'em a pass if they are into juvenile crimes either. Baby tigers are cute when they're small...

I just think you can't lay down with dogs & not expect to get fleas. The VAST majority of people in gangs are up to no good, and the ones who aren't usually get pulled into it or have to look the other way to avoid consequences. I suppose those same people COULD have been perfectly nice people if they never joined a gang, but that was the choice they made. Bad guys don't just wake up one day & say, "Hey, I've just decided that I want to become a menace to society. I think I'll go steak a car." They make a series of seemingly small mistakes (like joining a gang) & gradually become thus.

Like I said before: if they're just hangin' out & not doing anything wrong I have no problem with their "gang." But it would be extremely naïve to think that the "real" gangs to which I was referring (like the one to which Hernandez belongs) fits that description.

Is it really a choice if you are pulled or forced into it. What about the point of avoiding consequences if you dont? I agree the Vast majority is up to no good but there are good/nice guys who join because they feel they are making a sacrifice for the greater good of the well being of their families.

Example: honor student kid, living in the hood with his single mom working two jobs to get them out of the hood. Leader of the gang in that hood is jealous of him because he wants to be somebody in life. he threatens the kid to join the gang or they will hurt his mom. He goes to the cops and they tell him sorry kid there is nothing they can do until an actual crime is committed. Do you wait for them to hurt your mother or do you join the gang?

 

[NinerSickness]

Is it really a choice if you are pulled or forced into it.

If someone is acting completely under coercion, that's a different story. In that case, I sympathize & hope the person doing the coercing gets hit by a bus.

 

[jayviabay]

If someone is acting completely under coercion, that's a different story. In that case, I sympathize & hope the person doing the coercing gets hit by a bus.

LOL, it would be well deserved

 

[SeattleNinersFan]

Example: honor student kid, living in the hood with his single mom working two jobs to get them out of the hood. Leader of the gang in that hood is jealous of him because he wants to be somebody in life. he threatens the kid to join the gang or they will hurt his mom. He goes to the cops and they tell him sorry kid there is nothing they can do until an actual crime is committed. Do you wait for them to hurt your mother or do you join the gang?

sorry Jay, I think this is a bad example as there are plenty of other more likely reasons a "good kid" can join a gang, most have to do with poverty and isolation. Gangs are very accepting of young people and wield a great deal of power over those young people with social acceptance. When you add money into that mix it makes it much easier to get sucked in while young.

Sick, when you lived in a car you were already an adult and had a good sense of self, you knew right from wrong. That is very different than when you are a child specially a child with inadequate parental support. Are those kids bad people for being scared and complacent in a crime? I don't think so. Can this environment turn good kids bad? Yes and many gangs have many sociopaths in their ranks but I also believe that there are many good kids in gangs that got sucked in and don't know how to get out.

 

[erckm510]

Is it really a choice if you are pulled or forced into it. What about the point of avoiding consequences if you dont? I agree the Vast majority is up to no good but there are good/nice guys who join because they feel they are making a sacrifice for the greater good of the well being of their families.

Example: honor student kid, living in the hood with his single mom working two jobs to get them out of the hood. Leader of the gang in that hood is jealous of him because he wants to be somebody in life. he threatens the kid to join the gang or they will hurt his mom. He goes to the cops and they tell him sorry kid there is nothing they can do until an actual crime is committed. Do you wait for them to hurt your mother or do you join the gang?

I think a good example is to watch The Wire. Showed just how grey the world is.

 

[threelittleturds]

Watching the Wire is about as insightful as watching the Sopranos, Goodfellas, Casino, and the Godfather series. While they have some truths, they also are full of dramatic and artistic license so you keep watching...

I read a book a few years ago for a sociology class, general ed.. right?? fuck that, but it was about a sociologist who managed to befriend the leader of a Chicago gang and basically got full access to the gang and how they work. He misrepresented himself and his intentions to get the access, but he still got inside. If you want some general idea of how gangs work, read that book. Don't watch some stupid tv show or movie.. read books like this one.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Gang-Leader-Day-Sociologist-Streets/dp/014311493X]Gang Leader for a Day: A Rogue Sociologist Takes to the Streets: Sudhir Venkatesh: 9780143114932: Amazon.com: Books[/ame] Check it out at your local library, I'm sure it is there.

 

[NinerSickness]

Can this environment turn good kids bad? Yes and many gangs have many sociopaths in their ranks but I also believe that there are many good kids in gangs that got sucked in and don't know how to get out.

Or they're not willing to get out. I'll buy that potential excuse (I'm hearing a lot of them, but I'm not sure I'm buying that they're realistic) for kids like 17 & younger, but eventually people understand the consequences of their wrong decisions & keep making them anyway (like being in a gang). That's when I say sleep in the bed you've made.

 

[erckm510]

Watching the Wire is about as insightful as watching the Sopranos, Goodfellas, Casino, and the Godfather series. While they have some truths, they also are full of dramatic and artistic license so you keep watching...

I read a book a few years ago for a sociology class, general ed.. right?? fuck that, but it was about a sociologist who managed to befriend the leader of a Chicago gang and basically got full access to the gang and how they work. He misrepresented himself and his intentions to get the access, but he still got inside. If you want some general idea of how gangs work, read that book. Don't watch some stupid tv show or movie.. read books like this one.

Gang Leader for a Day: A Rogue Sociologist Takes to the Streets: Sudhir Venkatesh: 9780143114932: Amazon.com: Books Check it out at your local library, I'm sure it is there.

Maybe you should tell William Julius Wilson how much of a stupid tv show it is. Or read his very insightful essay of it. http://criticalinquiry.uchicago.edu/uploads/pdf/Chaddha_and_Wilson_on_The_Wire.pdf

Just because the show is fictional doesn't mean that it can't prove the same point.

 

[threelittleturds]

Maybe you should tell William Julius Wilson how much of a stupid tv show it is. Or read his very insightful essay of it. http://criticalinquiry.uchicago.edu/uploads/pdf/Chaddha_and_Wilson_on_The_Wire.pdf

Just because the show is fictional doesn't mean that it can't prove the same point.

oh man, a 20 page PDF, you sadistic bastard... lol.. i'll need some time to read all of that, so a little patience on your part is needed.

 

[threelittleturds]

Well, that reads just like the sociology book, and the author attempted to tie in The Wire to real events and statistics. I just can't take it seriously though, because it opens up saying that The Wire is entirely fiction... but based on the experiences of a reporter and a cop. What do either of them know about being in a gang if they're on the other side?

I see you were offended that I said the wire was as much hollywood bullshit as those movies... not sure why when your rebuttal is an excerpt from a book (I assume) that admits it is all fiction... but... whatever. It might be good bullshit, but it is still bullshit.

 

[erckm510]

Well, that reads just like the sociology book, and the author attempted to tie in The Wire to real events and statistics. I just can't take it seriously though, because it opens up saying that The Wire is entirely fiction... but based on the experiences of a reporter and a cop. What do either of them know about being in a gang if they're on the other side?

I see you were offended that I said the wire was as much hollywood bullshit as those movies... not sure why when your rebuttal is an excerpt from a book (I assume) that admits it is all fiction... but... whatever. It might be good bullshit, but it is still bullshit.

Not offended. I myself said it was fictional. Doesn't mean that there is nothing to be learned from it. I mostly offered it as an example in this thread for this paragraph alone "Unlike conventional cop or crime dramas, The Wire develops complex characters on each side of the law who cannot be placed in unambiguous moral categories—neither castigated for criminal pathologies and the absence of mainstream values toward work nor valorized as one-dimensional hapless victims of society’s cruelty who should command endless liberal sympathy"

 

[BINGO]

 

[MHSL82]

Cops find evidence in secret Aaron Hernandez pad

Mass. police investigate Aaron Hernandez for possible role in 2007 Gainesville shooting, according to sources

And yes, since everything needs a little Tebow (sarcasm alert): Tim Tebow intervened in Aaron Hernandez bar fight while at Florida

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I see you were offended that I said the wire was as much hollywood bullshit as those movies

I think most people would disagree with this. The creators of the show weren't Hollywood people - they were a former cop (Ed Burns), and a former newspaper reporter (David Simon). Guys who were known in their previous occupations to be serious people who got shit done and knew how things worked in the city as well as anyone. Not sure if you've seen it or not, but its one of the least "Hollywood" productions you'll ever see on TV.

Though definitely outdone in that department by the producers' previous series, The Corner, which was as no-BS as you'll see anywhere outside of a documentary.

 

[jayviabay]

sorry Jay, I think this is a bad example as there are plenty of other more likely reasons a "good kid" can join a gang, most have to do with poverty and isolation. Gangs are very accepting of young people and wield a great deal of power over those young people with social acceptance. When you add money into that mix it makes it much easier to get sucked in while young.

Sick, when you lived in a car you were already an adult and had a good sense of self, you knew right from wrong. That is very different than when you are a child specially a child with inadequate parental support. Are those kids bad people for being scared and complacent in a crime? I don't think so. Can this environment turn good kids bad? Yes and many gangs have many sociopaths in their ranks but I also believe that there are many good kids in gangs that got sucked in and don't know how to get out.

No need to be sorry. you have the right to your opinion. the thing is, im from the hood and this is something that actually happened. I dont think you can explain to me something I lived through and had to overcome. I have already stated that poverty has a lot to do with it. If you read it correctly it was an example of getting forced into a gang to protect the well being of your families welfare. This happens more than you fail to realize. I think being raised in such an environment, i know better than a cop, reporter, or some poll/study. Now simply joining is another story and I agree with the reasons you have listed.

 

[I_am_1z]

View attachment 5726

I would honestly pay an extra 20$ for that cover

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I think most people would disagree with this. The creators of the show weren't Hollywood people - they were a former cop (Ed Burns), and a former newspaper reporter (David Simon). Guys who were known in their previous occupations to be serious people who got shit done and knew how things worked in the city as well as anyone. Not sure if you've seen it or not, but its one of the least "Hollywood" productions you'll ever see on TV.

Though definitely outdone in that department by the producers' previous series, The Corner, which was as no-BS as you'll see anywhere outside of a documentary.

The Corner was based on a book I read several years back. Burns and Simon basically lived with folks involved in the drug trade in Baltimore for a year or so, and the resulting book is non-fiction. These guys know their shit. Not saying "The Wire" is entirely true to life, but I'd say it's one of the more accurate portrayals out there.

 

[BINGO]

Aaron Hernandez - TE - Free Agent

Court documents indicate that fellow suspect Carlos Ortiz will testify against Aaron Hernandez in the Odin Lloyd murder case.

Ernest Wallace appears to be sticking with Hernandez, but it was Ortiz who led authorities to Hernandez's "flop house," where "key evidence" was reportedly found. Ortiz is alleged to have been with Hernandez at the time of Lloyd's murder, so his cooperation could be damning.
Source: Boston Herald

Jul 5 - 10:55 AM

 

[tomikcon1971]

Wallace told Ortiz that Hernandez admitted firing the shots | ProFootballTalk

 

[MHSL82]

I don't get it, what's the point? Where's the injustice. Sure, people could jump to conclusions that he's guilty. Saying to free him is jumping to the conclusion that he's not guilty or ok to leave either way.

Maurkice Pouncey of Pittsburgh Steelers, Mike Pouncey of Miami Dolphins in 'Free Hernandez' caps