2025 Rosterbation

[tzill]

It absolutely is the right play for this team to compete for championships

on a one or two year deal, sure.

But he'll get five. And that risk is too much for the potential reward.

 

[msgkings322]

on a one or two year deal, sure.

But he'll get five. And that risk is too much for the potential reward.

It absolutely is not. The only way we get rings is take some chances. This is the exact one to take. Or we can keep hoarding “resources” and running prospects out there and being a .500 to fringe 3rd wild card team at best

 

[tzill]

It absolutely is not. The only way we get rings is take some chances. This is the exact one to take. Or we can keep hoarding “resources” and running prospects out there and being a .500 to fringe 3rd wild card team at best

Maybe it isn't such a bipolar situation?

I'm not saying don't spend in FA. And I'll freely admit that I was wrong about Chapman. But I think I was kinda right on Snelk...he projects out to 1.35 WAR for 2024. We paid $32M for that.

Any other industry, FZ would be fired for gross negligence. I understand mitigating circumstances, missed ST, etc. But that's just atrocious.

In comparison, Chapman projects to 6.6 WAR for $19M. So, I was dead wrong there.

To sum up, I wouldn't pay $150/5 for Snelk. Some other team probably will. I would pursue Burnes, Fried, Means...maybe Clevinger. We have for 2025
Webb
Ray
Harry
Hicks
Bird

Add Burnes into that and it's elite. He'll be expensive but probably not as much as Snelk, and even if he does cost the same I'd rather have him.

Add Fried into that and it's close to elite.

Say no to Snelk. Unless they sign him then I'm all in.

 

[calsnowskier]

It absolutely is not. The only way we get rings is take some chances. This is the exact one to take. Or we can keep hoarding “resources” and running prospects out there and being a .500 to fringe 3rd wild card team at best

Paying ridiculous amounts to FAs is not the way to a championship.

 

[msgkings322]

Maybe it isn't such a bipolar situation?

I'm not saying don't spend in FA. And I'll freely admit that I was wrong about Chapman. But I think I was kinda right on Snelk...he projects out to 1.35 WAR for 2024. We paid $32M for that.

Bro, don't do that. You know damn well the first half of the year doesn't count. Snell is a flat out ACE. You pay up for those. It's the only way this team can win.

Any other industry, FZ would be fired for gross negligence. I understand mitigating circumstances, missed ST, etc. But that's just atrocious.

Man for being smart baseball obsessives sometimes you guys crack me up. Do you ever watch MLB TV or read the Athletic or whatever? I'm not saying anything radical here.

In comparison, Chapman projects to 6.6 WAR for $19M. So, I was dead wrong there.

To sum up, I wouldn't pay $150/5 for Snelk. Some other team probably will. I would pursue Burnes, Fried, Means...maybe Clevinger. We have for 2025
Webb
Ray
Harry
Hicks
Bird

Add Burnes into that and it's elite. He'll be expensive but probably not as much as Snelk, and even if he does cost the same I'd rather have him.

OK so you're willing to pay 30M/yr but for Burnes instead of Snell? Fine with me if Burnes is as much an ace, I prefer Snell and we have an inside track to sign him (that we don't with Burnes). I'm glad we agree we should go out and spend a ton to get a 3rd ace.

Add Fried into that and it's close to elite.

Say no to Snelk. Unless they sign him then I'm all in.

LOL that's more like it!

All I'm saying here is look at what worked before and do that again: pitching, pitching, pitching. None of the title teams had Soto-type monster bats. They were teams of Chapmans and Ramoses. So add one more of those and make the pitching elite and let's win again.

 

[msgkings322]

Paying ridiculous amounts to FAs is not the way to a championship.

Has been for pretty much all the recent title teams. For us, ace level pitching is the way and we can spend some money for it.

If you guys don't want to spend or take risks then stop bitching about the Dodgers and Padres and FZ and the rest. You guys want to be that pesky team that sometimes gets lucky like 2021. I want to compete with those other teams. We're not a small market team.

 

[LHG]

Chap will get extended.
Snelk will opt out
Ray will opt in.
Forto will be gone
Wilmer will be gone
Canha probably resigned
All the arb guys (Yaz, Tyro, LWJ, Tyler, Doval, Austin) will be resigned.

I have:
Ray 25
Chap -- guess will be 20
Taylor 12
Canha 4
Lee 17
Webb 12
Yaz -- guess 10
Wilmer 3.5 buyout
Hicks 12.5
Tyro -- guess 6
Murph 4
LWJ -- guess 6
Tyler -- guess 5
Camilo 2
Warren, Small -- .75 each = 1.5
Bailey, Beck, Walker, Harry, Hjelle, Winn, Miller, Ramos, RanRod -- 1 each = 9
Fitz, Roupp, Bird, Bivens, Matos, Schmitt, Wise -- .6 each = 4.2
Black, Encarnacion, Knapp, Luci, McCray, Meckler, Sabol, VR, Teng -- .4 each = 3.6

Total estimated = 157.3 40 players

We cannot just decline Flores. It is a player option, which I think he will likely exercise. I cannot see how a mid 30s player coming off a down, injury ridden year would decline what the Giants would give him in 2025 so he can test the market. He's not really a multi positional player either so he's likely to get a minor league deal on the market.

 

[LHG]

Bro, don't do that. You know damn well the first half of the year doesn't count. Snell is a flat out ACE. You pay up for those. It's the only way this team can win.

Man for being smart baseball obsessives sometimes you guys crack me up. Do you ever watch MLB TV or read the Athletic or whatever? I'm not saying anything radical here.

OK so you're willing to pay 30M/yr but for Burnes instead of Snell? Fine with me if Burnes is as much an ace, I prefer Snell and we have an inside track to sign him (that we don't with Burnes). I'm glad we agree we should go out and spend a ton to get a 3rd ace.

LOL that's more like it!

All I'm saying here is look at what worked before and do that again: pitching, pitching, pitching. None of the title teams had Soto-type monster bats. They were teams of Chapmans and Ramoses. So add one more of those and make the pitching elite and let's win again.

Has been for pretty much all the recent title teams. For us, ace level pitching is the way and we can spend some money for it.

If you guys don't want to spend or take risks then stop bitching about the Dodgers and Padres and FZ and the rest. You guys want to be that pesky team that sometimes gets lucky like 2021. I want to compete with those other teams. We're not a small market team.

I really don't get your obsession with Snell. Yes, he's been dominant for the past 10 games or so but he's got a very checkered history of production. Five years is a lot of gamble in hopes that one or two of those years are elite. I can see maybe Burnes at close to the same money or Fried on a lower deal because they have been records of consistency. But Snell seems like such a wild card to lock up for that many years at that price. There is a reason why teams shied away from his demands last offseason.

And as far as it goes on WS teams, how many have won primarily on buying players on the free agent market. Probably fewer than you think. The Dodgers are perennial contenders, which is better than being perennial bottom feeders, but they also have won only one WS in the past 30 years, and it was a really weird year where their opponent in that WS almost was a team with a losing record. Building a team from within seems to create a more cohesive team than a bunch of guys thrown together with money. Maybe this farm will produce that squad and maybe Snell or one other pitcher makes the difference but I have a feeling that the farm needs to produce a few more players and then bring in complementary pieces through the free agent market in order to build a championship squad.

 

[tzill]

Bro, don't do that. You know damn well the first half of the year doesn't count. Snell is a flat out ACE. You pay up for those. It's the only way this team can win.

Man for being smart baseball obsessives sometimes you guys crack me up. Do you ever watch MLB TV or read the Athletic or whatever? I'm not saying anything radical here.

OK so you're willing to pay 30M/yr but for Burnes instead of Snell? Fine with me if Burnes is as much an ace, I prefer Snell and we have an inside track to sign him (that we don't with Burnes). I'm glad we agree we should go out and spend a ton to get a 3rd ace.

LOL that's more like it!

All I'm saying here is look at what worked before and do that again: pitching, pitching, pitching. None of the title teams had Soto-type monster bats. They were teams of Chapmans and Ramoses. So add one more of those and make the pitching elite and let's win again.

I completely agree; you know I loves me some tzill approved baseball. Not trying to beat a dead Snelk here, but I wouldn't commit to him.

 

[tzill]

We cannot just decline Flores. It is a player option, which I think he will likely exercise. I cannot see how a mid 30s player coming off a down, injury ridden year would decline what the Giants would give him in 2025 so he can test the market. He's not really a multi positional player either so he's likely to get a minor league deal on the market.

Interesting. I thought it was a buy out.

 

[msgkings322]

I really don't get your obsession with Snell. Yes, he's been dominant for the past 10 games or so but he's got a very checkered history of production. Five years is a lot of gamble in hopes that one or two of those years are elite. I can see maybe Burnes at close to the same money or Fried on a lower deal because they have been records of consistency. But Snell seems like such a wild card to lock up for that many years at that price. There is a reason why teams shied away from his demands last offseason.

And as far as it goes on WS teams, how many have won primarily on buying players on the free agent market. Probably fewer than you think. The Dodgers are perennial contenders, which is better than being perennial bottom feeders, but they also have won only one WS in the past 30 years, and it was a really weird year where their opponent in that WS almost was a team with a losing record. Building a team from within seems to create a more cohesive team than a bunch of guys thrown together with money. Maybe this farm will produce that squad and maybe Snell or one other pitcher makes the difference but I have a feeling that the farm needs to produce a few more players and then bring in complementary pieces through the free agent market in order to build a championship squad.

Honestly I'm baffled by everyone's reluctance on Snell. So if we can get a different ace you guys like better that's fine with me. Feels like Snell is our best chance

And he is a legit ace. 2 Cy Youngs. Not to mention he just had one of the best runs of starts in Giants history. We all saw it. That's what he can be with a full spring training.

If we get another one, fine, but Snell will be great somewhere else then.

This isn't buying a championship with tons of FAs, the core of the team is still farm products and trades made with farm products.

We are so close now, if we had this team healthy with guys like Ramos and Fitz from opening day and this rotation from opening day I think it's already a wild card team

 

[LHG]

Interesting. I thought it was a buy out.

Only if Flores declines his option do the Giants have a team option to decide on.

 

[calsnowskier]

Has been for pretty much all the recent title teams. For us, ace level pitching is the way and we can spend some money for it.

If you guys don't want to spend or take risks then stop bitching about the Dodgers and Padres and FZ and the rest. You guys want to be that pesky team that sometimes gets lucky like 2021. I want to compete with those other teams. We're not a small market team.

Adding to an already solid base makes sense. Spending money to BECOME competitive is what the Spanks did in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[calsnowskier]

Has been for pretty much all the recent title teams. For us, ace level pitching is the way and we can spend some money for it.

If you guys don't want to spend or take risks then stop bitching about the Dodgers and Padres and FZ and the rest. You guys want to be that pesky team that sometimes gets lucky like 2021. I want to compete with those other teams. We're not a small market team.

This board has done nothing but rave about 2021, so I can understand your take, there.

Put your straw men away and discuss reality.

 

[msgkings322]

This board has done nothing but rave about 2021, so I can understand your take, there.

Put your straw men away and discuss reality.

Reality is we can and should spend some money on another ace and Snell is the one we'd have the best chance to sign. If we get another one, fine. If we don't get any 1/2 level starter, that's a fail. The guy is right here in our uni doing as good as any one since coming back from the IL and I just want to keep him here and see what else we can do next year

 

[sf1giantfan]

Snell is not staying with us with him being Cained so often. I see the Pads or dodgers having a better chance. He naturally wants wins and our offense doesn’t give him that, maybe by 2026 if we are lucky but he isn’t waiting unless the Giants are the top bidders.

 

[filosofy29]

Honestly I'm baffled by everyone's reluctance on Snell. So if we can get a different ace you guys like better that's fine with me. Feels like Snell is our best chance

And he is a legit ace. 2 Cy Youngs. Not to mention he just had one of the best runs of starts in Giants history. We all saw it. That's what he can be with a full spring training.

If we get another one, fine, but Snell will be great somewhere else then.

This isn't buying a championship with tons of FAs, the core of the team is still farm products and trades made with farm products.

We are so close now, if we had this team healthy with guys like Ramos and Fitz from opening day and this rotation from opening day I think it's already a wild card team

I love what he’s done on the Giants, and he’s been on a historical run…but if he wants 5 or 5+ years…I’m with TZ. The back of his baseball card scares me. I’d rather pay 3/$100 than 5/$150. I don’t know what Blake wants though.

Blake Snell Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Blake Snell. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[msgkings322]

I love what he’s done on the Giants, and he’s been on a historical run…but if he wants 5 or 5+ years…I’m with TZ. The back of his baseball card scares me. I’d rather pay 3/$100 than 5/$150. I don’t know what Blake wants though.

Blake Snell Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Blake Snell. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

You pay what the market demands or you don't play

 

[filosofy29]

You pay what the market demands or you don't play

You’re not wrong. But…That doesn’t address any of what I said above.

 

[sf1giantfan]

That’s not pretty