2012 Payroll

[msgkings322]

There is no roster flexability.We did the same thing during the Bonds era.Over paid aging vets to fill in gaps instead of building thru the draft.When Bonds wasnt brought back they made this big presentation about rebuilding the Giant way but see for yourself where we stand besides a lucky run in the post season(that ended my own personel 39 year wait for a title)we are once again paying way too much for the aging vets that fill out our roster.Big contracts to Zito,Rowand and Huff never should have been allowed.

Here is the link for the article, scroll down, it is called "Looking Forward" by Scott Mizuno:Just cut and paste since it didnt make direct link.

<http://knbr.com/Blogs/KNBRGuestBlog/...0/Default.aspx>

T, I think you can look at it from a different angle. Instead of calling our run "lucky" (because every WS winner gets a share of luck, it's the nature of the short series), I call it Sabean's strategy working. His strategy was draft and develop pitching, sign vets to hit. And by golly it worked.

Not only that, but we've started drafting and developing hitting too: Panda, Posey, Belt, looks like Brown...

Obviously the Rowand and Zito contracts were big mistakes, but they were made a while ago especially Zito's. Rowand is gone, Zito probably to follow. You HAD to re-sign Huff after what he did, and the ring he brought us. They kept it to 2 years so not much harm done a la Rowand/Zito

In 2013 4 of 8 positions (Belt, Brown, Posey, Panda) will be manned by homegrown hitters, and possibly all the starters and half the pen too. And maybe more hitters too: Crawford? Panik?

I just have a different take, I really believe Sabean is an excellent GM, one of the best in the business. He's not perfect of course, but none of them are.

 

[TKellion]

Contrary to popular belief Rowand will still count on our payroll next season so you can not subtract that money.If you let all the Free agents walk except Lopez.Plus you non tender everyone except Lincecum,Sandoval,J Sanchez,Romo.Plus we dont bring back Affeldt.that is basically 111m for 2012 payroll using his #s with a ton of holes to fill.9 players not returning that must be replaced and most likely no real money to do so.So they bring in the farm.Ford,Peguero,Gillaspie,Pill,Burris,Sanchez,Crawford,Edlefson,Hembree, Surkamp will all be playing for spots on the roster ready or not to keep the payroll down.

 

[msgkings322]

Contrary to popular belief Rowand will still count on our payroll next season so you can not subtract that money.If you let all the Free agents walk except Lopez.Plus you non tender everyone except Lincecum,Sandoval,J Sanchez,Romo.Plus we dont bring back Affeldt.that is basically 111m for 2012 payroll using his #s with a ton of holes to fill.9 players not returning that must be replaced and most likely no real money to do so.So they bring in the farm.Ford,Peguero,Gillaspie,Pill,Burris,Sanchez,Crawford,Edlefson,Hembree, Surkamp will all be playing for spots on the roster ready or not to keep the payroll down.

I don't know about 'popular belief' but I and most of the posters here are well aware that the G's are on the hook for his $. The fact that they are willing to just eat it (maybe to take it as a hit to capital and not count it on the payroll) is a really really good sign, and pretty unexpected.

And you basically ignored the rest of my post. It's all good, but I think you judge the FO too harshly, especially with championship confetti still in our hair...

As far as holes to fill, I see only CF and SS. I think they will get Crisp or Sizemore or someone to play CF, and probably see if Crawford can handle it and bat him 8th.

 

[TKellion]

I don't know about 'popular belief' but I and most of the posters here are well aware that the G's are on the hook for his $. The fact that they are willing to just eat it (maybe to take it as a hit to capital and not count it on the payroll) is a really really good sign, and pretty unexpected.

And you basically ignored the rest of my post. It's all good, but I think you judge the FO too harshly, especially with championship confetti still in our hair...

As far as holes to fill, I see only CF and SS. I think they will get Crisp or Sizemore or someone to play CF, and probably see if Crawford can handle it and bat him 8th.

Actually I didnt see your post until after I posted the second

 

[tzill]

Nice. And they'd only be open from 12 to 6.

And only serve berries and ziti.

::standing on chair and cheering::

Well played, sir. Mad rep.

 

[tzill]

There is no roster flexability.We did the same thing during the Bonds era.Over paid aging vets to fill in gaps instead of building thru the draft.When Bonds wasnt brought back they made this big presentation about rebuilding the Giant way but see for yourself where we stand besides a lucky run in the post season(that ended my own personel 39 year wait for a title)we are once again paying way too much for the aging vets that fill out our roster.Big contracts to Zito,Rowand and Huff never should have been allowed.

Here is the link for the article, scroll down, it is called "Looking Forward" by Scott Mizuno:Just cut and paste since it didnt make direct link.

<http://knbr.com/Blogs/KNBRGuestBlog/...0/Default.aspx>

Timmy, Cain, MadBum, Chez, Surkamp, Wilson, Romo, Posey, Panda, Belt, Nate, Crawford, Brown, Panik, et. al. say "we disagree."

 

[msgkings322]

Actually I didnt see your post until after I posted the second

It's all good!

:bump2:

 

[msgkings322]

T, I think you can look at it from a different angle. Instead of calling our run "lucky" (because every WS winner gets a share of luck, it's the nature of the short series), I call it Sabean's strategy working. His strategy was draft and develop pitching, sign vets to hit. And by golly it worked.

Not only that, but we've started drafting and developing hitting too: Panda, Posey, Belt, looks like Brown...

Obviously the Rowand and Zito contracts were big mistakes, but they were made a while ago especially Zito's. Rowand is gone, Zito probably to follow. You HAD to re-sign Huff after what he did, and the ring he brought us. They kept it to 2 years so not much harm done a la Rowand/Zito

In 2013 4 of 8 positions (Belt, Brown, Posey, Panda) will be manned by homegrown hitters, and possibly all the starters and half the pen too. And maybe more hitters too: Crawford? Panik?

I just have a different take, I really believe Sabean is an excellent GM, one of the best in the business. He's not perfect of course, but none of them are.

I forgot Schierholtz: In 2013 possibly 5 or even 6 of the 8 positions will be homegrown.

 

[msgkings322]

::standing on chair and cheering::

Well played, sir. Mad rep.

Mad thanks

 

[tzill]

Contrary to popular belief Rowand will still count on our payroll next season so you can not subtract that money.If you let all the Free agents walk except Lopez.Plus you non tender everyone except Lincecum,Sandoval,J Sanchez,Romo.Plus we dont bring back Affeldt.that is basically 111m for 2012 payroll using his #s with a ton of holes to fill.9 players not returning that must be replaced and most likely no real money to do so.So they bring in the farm.Ford,Peguero,Gillaspie,Pill,Burris,Sanchez,Crawford,Edlefson,Hembree, Surkamp will all be playing for spots on the roster ready or not to keep the payroll down.

Dude, what "popular belief" is that? We've discussed that a bit on this board and I think we mostly agree that we DON'T KNOW how the ownership is going to treat the RoRo dead money. They may write that off as a bad investment from a previous ownership group and allow Sabes to spend $130MM anyway.

Or, they may not, and Sabes will have to make due with $120MM plus RoRo's contract. We'll see.

Just a bit of free advice (and maybe only worth what you pay for it): while most of us enjoy a spirited back and forth and can disagree in an agreeable fashion, straw man arguments like "conventional wisdom" and "everybody says" backed with a sarcastic tone isn't going to get you far here. It's obvious you like the team and have insight; you might want to tone it down just a touch if you want to have productive conversations. Again, just my 2 cents. Remember: we're all scarred from the Disney experience.

 

[SFGRTB]

Dude, what "popular belief" is that? We've discussed that a bit on this board and I think we mostly agree that we DON'T KNOW how the ownership is going to treat the RoRo dead money. They may write that off as a bad investment from a previous ownership group and allow Sabes to spend $130MM anyway.

Or, they may not, and Sabes will have to make due with $120MM plus RoRo's contract. We'll see.

Just a bit of free advice (and maybe only worth what you pay for it): while most of us enjoy a spirited back and forth and can disagree in an agreeable fashion, straw man arguments like "conventional wisdom" and "everybody says" backed with a sarcastic tone isn't going to get you far here. It's obvious you like the team and have insight; you might want to tone it down just a touch if you want to have productive conversations. Again, just my 2 cents. Remember: we're all scarred from the Disney experience.

Twitter

Is this what you were saying about the FO writing off his contract?

 

[calsnowskier]

Twitter

Is this what you were saying about the FO writing off his contract?

Just because ownership "signed off on eating the $$" does not mean that they will cost it away from payroll. That only says that they were willing to lose the "asset" that the liability was associated to.

 

[SFGRTB]

Just because ownership "signed off on eating the $$" does not mean that they will cost it away from payroll. That only says that they were willing to lose the "asset" that the liability was associated to.

gottchya!

 

[tzill]

Just because ownership "signed off on eating the $$" does not mean that they will cost it away from payroll. That only says that they were willing to lose the "asset" that the liability was associated to.

This. We'll have to see if they write it off as a bad investment or hold it against payroll in 2012.

 

[mistgl]

Than do you think Philly will offer arb to a player whose "numbers are pretty underwhelming"?

I dont disagree with you, I just think that we have to look at both sides of the equation...

You bet your ass they'll offer arb if they dont resign him. He's the best SS on the market after Reyes, so he will decline. Someone will cave and sign him.

I just don't think that should be us. If he were 29 and putting up the same numbers then it would be a different story, but he's not. I'd Rather pay Crawford next to nothing, than fork over 10 mil a year for Rollins and give Philly our pick.

 

[tzill]

You bet your ass they'll offer arb if they dont resign him. He's the best SS on the market after Reyes, so he will decline. Someone will cave and sign him.

I just don't think that should be us. If he were 29 and putting up the same numbers then it would be a different story, but he's not. I'd Rather pay Crawford next to nothing, than fork over 10 mil a year for Rollins and give Philly our pick.

That's actually a pretty astute observation. Philly will have to offer him arb if they want the picks. I'm not sure he'll decline, though. If he does, we will be in on him.

 

[calsnowskier]

You bet your ass they'll offer arb if they dont resign him. He's the best SS on the market after Reyes, so he will decline. Someone will cave and sign him.

I just don't think that should be us. If he were 29 and putting up the same numbers then it would be a different story, but he's not. I'd Rather pay Crawford next to nothing, than fork over 10 mil a year for Rollins and give Philly our pick.

I am not sure that they will offer arb. Rollins numbers have been trending badly for a few years now, and as you stated, he is on the wrong side of 30. They also would likely be in on the Reyes lottery, so I do not think they want ot get stuck with Rollins, so they may just eat it and let him walk.

If they offer arb, and he declines, than I would ONLY be interested if we get a BIG home town discount. If he declines, than I say (to an extent), GIT 'R DONE

 

[mistgl]

I am not sure that they will offer arb. Rollins numbers have been trending badly for a few years now, and as you stated, he is on the wrong side of 30. They also would likely be in on the Reyes lottery, so I do not think they want ot get stuck with Rollins, so they may just eat it and let him walk.

If they offer arb, and he declines, than I would ONLY be interested if we get a BIG home town discount. If he declines, than I say (to an extent), GIT 'R DONE

If he declines arb I have no problem with trying to net him.

Personally, I would not want them to give him any more than 3 years.

Since Reyes was mentioned, I pray to God Sabes stays away from him. It is not smart to throw 9 figures at a guy who's missed almost 200 games in the last 3 seasons.

 

[tzill]

If he declines arb I have no problem with trying to net him.

Personally, I would not want them to give him any more than 3 years.

Since Reyes was mentioned, I pray to God Sabes stays away from him. It is not smart to throw 9 figures at a guy who's missed almost 200 games in the last 3 seasons.

+1. Reyes is going to be way too rich for a mid market team budget. He'll go to the Yanks/Red Sox/Angels/Phils.

 

[CameronFrye]

Interesting factoid: the Giants have scored 13 runs in the last six games (ugh).

One player has driven in 7 of those runs, guess who.

Hint: Cam doesn't think he's worth $3.5MM next year.

To be fair, I don't think he's worth $3.5 million as a backup 2B. If he had a starting position or if he were good enough to play multiple positions on the infield, then I would easily agree that he was worth that much money. But his bat is just not good enough to make up for his lack of defensive skills.