2012 Payroll

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

trade Jonathan Sanchez, let Surkamp take the 5th spot.

 

[tzill]

I have him at $12 million. This year and next. Had an $8 million signing bonus that was paid in 08' and 09' at 4 million each.

Cot's Baseball Contracts: San Francisco Giants

That's interesting; my spreadsheet is from the same site. Here's what I think happened: whoever put together the spreadsheet took that 8M signing bonus and spread it over the 5 year deal, thus: 13.6MM.

If the bonus was already paid, then we are $1.6MM better off next year.

 

[Stokes1931]

OUT: Ross, Cabrera, DeRosa, Whiteside, Fontenot, Burrell, Mota, Tejada. Thats $22 million

I'm still undecided on Beltran.

I'll decide in three words....

 

[tzill]

The problems is, you're [sic] theoretical line-up is basically the same thing we marched out at the begging of this season, and they left much to be desired.

I know everyone is confident we'll resign Cain and Lincecum, but they both might actually want to test the FA market. And could you blame them? They're star pitchers who will command top dollar.

Not quite. We'll likely get someone like Crisp to leadoff and play CF. Nate will start in RF and be there all year. Craw will be at SS. That's 3/8 of the lineup that will be different.

Further, with a healthy Posey; a relatively healthy Franchez (and Kepp to back him up); and a rebound year from Huff I think we'll be the preseason favorites in the NLW.

I envision this:

Crisp CF
Franchez 2B
Posey C
Panda 3B
Belt LF
Huff 1B
Nate RF
Crawford SS

With our staff and decent health, I like our chances.

 

[Stokes1931]

Sabean today:

Sabean also said Barry Zito's status was not part of today's equation. He has two years left on a seven-year, $126 million contract that ranks among the worst in the nearly four decades of free agency.

Asked if Zito will be around next year, Sabean said, "I have no idea."

Read more: Bold moves: SF Giants dump Aaron Rowand, Miguel Tejada

Well, it is a step in the right direction. While we are at it, why not clean the whole house, not just the kitchen?

 

[tzill]

tzill - There's no longer a reason to try to get "value" for Durty. It will be more valuable to get rid of his salary and to get rid of the problems associated with keeping him on the team. The guy is a headcase. When SF traded Livan Hernandez for Jim Brower, did anyone think the Giants were getting value? Nope. But they made themselves a better team by subtracting Livan from the team.

The same goes for Durty. By not having him around - even if the player they get back is a long reliever - the Giants are a better team. And they save money that they can put toward a better player.

As for Keppinger, bringing him back to be a backup at second for $3.5 million is crazy. While we all assume Freddy is injury-prone, and we are all agreed that Keppinger is a better hitter than Burriss. Those are not in question. But Manny can play 2B and SS and the OF. Keppinger is sub-par defensively at second. Seeing him at short would be like watching Tejadfa again, and I don't really want that. And I don't know if Keppinger has ever played the OF.

Unless you can guarantee me that Freddie is not going to be ready to open the season, I don't really want to pay $3.5 million for a backup - especially one who can only really back up one position and who is sub-par defensively at that one spot.

I see what you're saying, but I don't see Chez as "addition by subtraction" like you do. The guy has tons of talent and has swing-and-miss stuff. Very few MLB pitchers have that kind of stuff. I don't see us letting him go for a long reliever or a backup infielder. He's probably a 2.5 - 3.0 WAR pitcher when healthy and was trending up until this year when he's been hurt. He's worth more to the Giants than to any other club I'm guessing, which will make it difficult to trade him for value. Also, Sabes is going to be particularly sensitive to trade value given the Beltran/Wheeler deal. We can disagree, though.

As for Kepp, he can play third as well as second. I'd also assume he can play first. You're correct about SS, but that's what Fontenot or Burris will be for. Simply put, the guy is a pro hitter and there is nothing wrong with paying a pro hitter $3.5 to backup and pinch hit.

 

[tzill]

Sabean today:

Sabean also said Barry Zito's status was not part of today's equation. He has two years left on a seven-year, $126 million contract that ranks among the worst in the nearly four decades of free agency.

Asked if Zito will be around next year, Sabean said, "I have no idea."

Read more: Bold moves: SF Giants dump Aaron Rowand, Miguel Tejada

Well, it is a step in the right direction. While we are at it, why not clean the whole house, not just the kitchen?

Wow. If the ownership group is willing to write off Zeet's contract, we'd have a good chunk of change to chase a FA or two....interesting.

 

[mistgl]

Wow. If the ownership group is willing to write off Zeet's contract, we'd have a good chunk of change to chase a FA or two....interesting.

If there was actual pay roll flexibility, what free agents do you want?

 

[SFGRTB]

If there was actual pay roll flexibility, what free agents do you want?

Thing is, we do have payroll flexibility.

 

[filosofy29]

If there was actual pay roll flexibility, what free agents do you want?

If they do intend on spending that money, I'd love to do get Rollins on a short deal (2 years max) for the money that was owed to Rowand and Tejada. Then, with the money owed to Cody and Torres I'd love to get Crisp (I'd even accept a 2 year deal for Coco if that's what it took to get him).

In this park, it would be awesome to have good speed and defense (assuming Coco plays good defense, I've never really watched him play).

This lineup would be good for me though next season (although I HIGHLY doubt it will happen).

CF - Crisp
2B - Sanchez
3B - Sandoval
C - Posey
LF - Belt
SS - Rollins
1B - Huff
RF - Nate

And guys, please forget about Fielder.....AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN (in my humble opinion of course ). With this team, it's been proven the last two years that you just need an above average lineup that plays good defense and the pitching staff can do the rest. I think the lineup above would be good enough for this pitching staff.

Keeping Timmay, Cain and Bum in tow is much more important than a power hitting 1B.

 

[msgkings322]

If they do intend on spending that money, I'd love to do get Rollins on a short deal (2 years max) for the money that was owed to Rowand and Tejada. Then, with the money owed to Cody and Torres I'd love to get Crisp (I'd even accept a 2 year deal for Coco if that's what it took to get him).

In this park, it would be awesome to have good speed and defense (assuming Coco plays good defense, I've never really watched him play).

This lineup would be good for me though next season (although I HIGHLY doubt it will happen).

CF - Crisp
2B - Sanchez
3B - Sandoval
C - Posey
LF - Belt
SS - Rollins
1B - Huff
RF - Nate

And guys, please forget about Fielder.....AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN (in my humble opinion of course ). With this team, it's been proven the last two years that you just need an above average lineup and the pitching staff can do the rest. Keeping Timmay, Cain and Bum in tow is much more important than a power hitting 1B.

Terrific post, agree with all of it. If you can get Crisp and Rollins on 2 year deals, those are about the best realistic moves they can make.

And agreed, Fielder doesn't make sense for our team (Belt) and our payroll.

 

[nateistheshi]

If they do intend on spending that money, I'd love to do get Rollins on a short deal (2 years max) for the money that was owed to Rowand and Tejada. Then, with the money owed to Cody and Torres I'd love to get Crisp (I'd even accept a 2 year deal for Coco if that's what it took to get him).

In this park, it would be awesome to have good speed and defense (assuming Coco plays good defense, I've never really watched him play).

This lineup would be good for me though next season (although I HIGHLY doubt it will happen).

CF - Crisp
2B - Sanchez
3B - Sandoval
C - Posey
LF - Belt
SS - Rollins
1B - Huff
RF - Nate

And guys, please forget about Fielder.....AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN (in my humble opinion of course ). With this team, it's been proven the last two years that you just need an above average lineup that plays good defense and the pitching staff can do the rest. I think the lineup above would be good enough for this pitching staff.

Keeping Timmay, Cain and Bum in tow is much more important than a power hitting 1B.

Absolutely, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Belt ends up putting up more WAR over the next 5 year span than Fielder does anyway (defense counts too.)

 

[nateistheshi]

Cam got me thinking with the Fat Fielder discussion about the payroll for next year. Here's what we know (salaries in $MM)

Zito 19; Tim 18; RoRo 14; Huff 10; Cain 15; Wilson 8.5; Franchez 6; Buster 0.7; Bum 0.7; Belt 0.5 -- 92.4MM

Here's what I project:

Chez 6 (arb); Affeldt 5 (team option); Lopez 3 (FA); Kepp 3.5 (arb); Torres 3 (arb); RamRam 2 (arb); Casilla 2 (arb); Fonty 2 (arb); Song 3 (arb); Pablo 3 (arb); Romo 2 (arb); Nate 2 (arb) -- 36.5

That's 21 players (plus RoRo's contract) and an estimated payroll of 128.9.

Add in Craw .4; Chez3 .4; Peguero .4; and Ford 0.4 -- total about $130MM

Positionally, that breaks down:

C - Posey
1b - Huff
2b - Franchez
SS - Craw
3b - Pablo
LF - Belt
CF - Torres
RF - Nate
Bench - Chez3, Kepp, Fonty, Peguero, Ford, Gillaspie
SP - Tim, Cain, Song, Bum, Chez
RP - Weez, Romo, Affeldt, Lopez, RamRam, Casilla

The problems:

1. Wither Zeets? I don't have a position for him, but he sucks up $19MM.
2. RoRo's contract -- if mgt writes that off, then the payroll shrinks to $115MM
3. We still need a leadoff CF guy. Crisp is going to go about $8MM per, so that brings payroll back up to $123 or so (and keeps Ford down in the minors).
4. Signing Fielder would keep Peguero down in the minors as well, and push payroll north of $140MM even forgetting RoRo's dead money.

Bottom line: mgt may stretch payroll that high, but I wouldn't want to do it for Fielder as a) he's a big fat tub of goo and not getting any slimmer; b) He's not going to be worth $20MM a year in his 30s unless he can DH; c) we'd have to keep Belt in the OF for his career.

It's not the worst idea ever, but I don't like mega contracts for FAs.

That part is incredibly optimistic. Anywhere else on here where you can find places the Giants saving money will be made up for by the fact that Lincecum is going to shatter 18M in arb this offseason.

Lincecum's Historic Arbitration Case: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

If he goes to arbitration, he's taking at least $21M with the season he's had.

 

[calsnowskier]

That part is incredibly optimistic. Anywhere else on here where you can find places the Giants saving money will be made up for by the fact that Lincecum is going to shatter 18M in arb this offseason.

Lincecum's Historic Arbitration Case: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

If he goes to arbitration, he's taking at least $21M with the season he's had.

Would you sign Timmeh to a 5/100 this off season? Would he accept it if it were offered?

 

[msgkings322]

Would you sign Timmeh to a 5/100 this off season? Would he accept it if it were offered?

Yes, and not sure

 

[nateistheshi]

Would you sign Timmeh to a 5/100 this off season? Would he accept it if it were offered?

Fuck yeah, and that depends on how good his agent is. I'm sure that they know that in the current state of the Giants, they need Lincecum or they go from being a very good team to a slightly above average team.

If Cliff Lee with history of back issues at the age of 32 got 5/120M then Lincecum should get more on the open market and there's no way his agent doesn't know that. I guess we would be in a somewhat similar situation (thought Lincecum hasn't achieved as much to date as Albert) as STL and Pujols if we can't get him resigned this offseason.

 

[SFGRTB]

If they do intend on spending that money, I'd love to do get Rollins on a short deal (2 years max) for the money that was owed to Rowand and Tejada. Then, with the money owed to Cody and Torres I'd love to get Crisp (I'd even accept a 2 year deal for Coco if that's what it took to get him).

In this park, it would be awesome to have good speed and defense (assuming Coco plays good defense, I've never really watched him play).

This lineup would be good for me though next season (although I HIGHLY doubt it will happen).

CF - Crisp
2B - Sanchez
3B - Sandoval
C - Posey
LF - Belt
SS - Rollins
1B - Huff
RF - Nate

And guys, please forget about Fielder.....AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN (in my humble opinion of course ). With this team, it's been proven the last two years that you just need an above average lineup that plays good defense and the pitching staff can do the rest. I think the lineup above would be good enough for this pitching staff.

Keeping Timmay, Cain and Bum in tow is much more important than a power hitting 1B.

I think we have a better chance at Fielder than Rollins, and I don't think we have a shot at Fielder. Rollins ain't going anywhere, he's a Philly for life. (Though I would really like to see him).

 

[nateistheshi]

I think we have a better chance at Fielder than Rollins, and I don't think we have a shot at Fielder. Rollins ain't going anywhere, he's a Philly for life. (Though I would really like to see him).

If the Phillies don't make it to the WS this year, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them let Rollins go in favor of Reyes. Amaro has made it obvious that he wants the Phillies to become the Yankees.

 

[tzill]

If they do intend on spending that money, I'd love to do get Rollins on a short deal (2 years max) for the money that was owed to Rowand and Tejada. Then, with the money owed to Cody and Torres I'd love to get Crisp (I'd even accept a 2 year deal for Coco if that's what it took to get him).

In this park, it would be awesome to have good speed and defense (assuming Coco plays good defense, I've never really watched him play).

This lineup would be good for me though next season (although I HIGHLY doubt it will happen).

CF - Crisp
2B - Sanchez
3B - Sandoval
C - Posey
LF - Belt
SS - Rollins
1B - Huff
RF - Nate

And guys, please forget about Fielder.....AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN (in my humble opinion of course ). With this team, it's been proven the last two years that you just need an above average lineup that plays good defense and the pitching staff can do the rest. I think the lineup above would be good enough for this pitching staff.

Keeping Timmay, Cain and Bum in tow is much more important than a power hitting 1B.

Absolutely fucking agree with both moves. Rollins would be coming home, and on a 2 year deal wouldn't kill us even if he flamed out (see: Huff, Aubrey). Crisp is a no-brainer.

 

[tzill]

Thing is, we do have payroll flexibility.

SFG, all due respect, but you can't know that. The ownership group sets the budget and we've no idea how they view the dead money to RoRo.