Series Thread: 1) Cavs(57-25) vs 8) Pistons (44-38)

[WiggyRuss]

JR Smith has been much more than a 3 point shooter this season. I haven't seen a single player on the Cavs hustle more than him. He's been a very good defender and he does a good job of moving the ball. Earlier in his career he could turn into a black hole on offense and that hasn't happened this season at all.

As much as i am shocked/pleasantly surprised about it- Gordon's post is true. Smith has done a solid job defensively- he gets after it- he can switch the PnR, he has been active in the passing lanes. Definitely not something i expected out of him--- but the Cavs have done a great job with him--- both Blatt and Lue had/have Smith's trust- something that WAS definitely not the case for Smith in NY....the Cavs are WINNING which certainly helps...and of course LEBron- the biggest component- his leadership and the respect is just off the charts.

Phil Jackson is airing Smith's dirty laundry in the press--- the Cavs gave Smith a clean slate- and while you never completely trust a guy like BY FAR the most important carrot is the contract. I think it MIGHT be ok with Smith if they gave him 3 years 30 million....but ya never know. Keeping a short contract keeps the carrot out there for Smith and you always have the stick if you need it. You lose both the carrot and the stick when you give a guy a guaranteed 30 million.

 

[gordontrue]

As much as i am shocked/pleasantly surprised about it- Gordon's post is true. Smith has done a solid job defensively- he gets after it- he can switch the PnR, he has been active in the passing lanes. Definitely not something i expected out of him--- but the Cavs have done a great job with him--- both Blatt and Lue had/have Smith's trust- something that WAS definitely not the case for Smith in NY....the Cavs are WINNING which certainly helps...and of course LEBron- the biggest component- his leadership and the respect is just off the charts.

Its why he's been the starter all season and will continue to be so. Shump is of course a better defender... but JR isn't far off. JR brings a lot more to the table offensively than shump and without sacrificing a whole lot defensively.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Its why he's been the starter all season and will continue to be so. Shump is of course a better defender... but JR isn't far off. JR brings a lot more to the table offensively than shump and without sacrificing a whole lot defensively.

definitely.

the Cavs wanted Shumpert to start since they traded for him- and he did start at times last year- but after he came back from the injury this year Smith just never gave up the job. He has played great. When Smith is hitting 3's like he did the other night the Cavs go from being a great offensive team to being positively unstoppable- when you have to worry about ANOTHER offensive option outside of Love, LeBron, Irving...definitely a nice thing.

A list of Cavs in how important they are- i think Smith is 5th probably...all though Delly is certainly giving him a run for his money lately

1. Bron
2. KI
3. Love
4. TT
5. JR
6. Delly
7. Shumpert
8. Frye
9. Jefferson
10. Mo (would be higher if not for injuries)

Mo Williams is our 10th guy right now...yet some people in their blithering idiocy think its a good idea to trade Love or Irving for depth. You play 7-9 guys AT MOST in the playoffs.....lol....its just ridiculous.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

definitely.

the Cavs wanted Shumpert to start since they traded for him- and he did start at times last year- but after he came back from the injury this year Smith just never gave up the job. He has played great. When Smith is hitting 3's like he did the other night the Cavs go from being a great offensive team to being positively unstoppable- when you have to worry about ANOTHER offensive option outside of Love, LeBron, Irving...definitely a nice thing.

A list of Cavs in how important they are- i think Smith is 5th probably...all though Delly is certainly giving him a run for his money lately

1. Bron
2. KI
3. Love
4. TT
5. JR
6. Delly
7. Shumpert
8. Frye
9. Jefferson
10. Mo (would be higher if not for injuries)

Mo Williams is our 10th guy right now...yet some people in their blithering idiocy think its a good idea to trade Love or Irving for depth. You play 7-9 guys AT MOST in the playoffs.....lol....its just ridiculous.

I agree with the JR posts.
Tristan at 4 though?
I mean, maybe, cause you have no bigs and need some rebounds, but Cavs can win most of the time if he didn't even play.

And if you don't win it all, whatever your list is, isn't enough.

#overhaul

 

[WiggyRuss]

I agree with the JR posts.
Tristan at 4 though?
I mean, maybe, cause you have no bigs and need some rebounds, but Cavs can win most of the time if he didn't even play.

And if you don't win it all, whatever your list is, isn't enough.

#overhaul

lol the Heat are the team that is going to have a ridiculous all encompassing overhaul this offseason.

Now if the Cavs lose BEFORE the Finals- or get swept in the Finals- i could see changes....if the Cavs lose a tough series against Golden State in a year where they break the all time wins record there simply will not be anything CLOSE to "an overhaul"....the same stuff will occur that happened last offseason- some minor moves etc...but Love and Irving and Thompson and Delly are going no where....i could POSSIBLY see a move with Shumpert- and as i said yewsterday if JR wants every last dollar he MIGHT be gone- that should be interesting....

but i think your rather delusional if you think an "overhaul" is coming for the Cavs absent a disaster before the Finals.


the fun thing is- that in July we will be able to see who is right- me or you! and- as its happened many many times before- time will once again vindicate me. Common sense and logic usually prevail more so than "they will be fine"

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

lol the Heat are the team that is going to have a ridiculous all encompassing overhaul this offseason.

Now if the Cavs lose BEFORE the Finals- or get swept in the Finals- i could see changes....if the Cavs lose a tough series against Golden State in a year where they break the all time wins record there simply will not be anything CLOSE to "an overhaul"....the same stuff will occur that happened last offseason- some minor moves etc...but Love and Irving and Thompson and Delly are going no where....i could POSSIBLY see a move with Shumpert- and as i said yewsterday if JR wants every last dollar he MIGHT be gone- that should be interesting....

but i think your rather delusional if you think an "overhaul" is coming for the Cavs absent a disaster before the Finals.


the fun thing is- that in July we will be able to see who is right- me or you! and- as its happened many many times before- time will once again vindicate me. Common sense and logic usually prevail more so than "they will be fine"

Under any other circumstance, I would readily agree with you, but we're talking James.
He thinks he's head and shoulders better than anyone.
He won't give a flying fuck about the 'all time wins' stuff.
That's just going to be your excuse. Like we don't already see it coming.
If the Cavs lose with this group , then what on earth would make him think that this group could win next year?
The other teams figure to improve.
So maybe equate that bit of common sense into the equation, because that will be his mindset.

Let's not forget, the Spurs Finals performance 2 years ago was much better than the Warriors performance last year, and James didn't consider that.

And you can keep on worrying about the Heat.
I'm not.
I trust the people who have made this franchise the top or near top players choice of destinations to play to continue to do so.

#blindhomer
#hope

 

[WiggyRuss]

Under any other circumstance, I would readily agree with you, but we're talking James.
He thinks he's head and shoulders better than anyone.
He won't give a flying fuck about the 'all time wins' stuff.
That's just going to be your excuse. Like we don't already see it coming.
If the Cavs lose with this group , then what on earth would make him think that this group could win next year?
The other teams figure to improve.
So maybe equate that bit of common sense into the equation, because that will be his mindset.

Let's not forget, the Spurs Finals performance 2 years ago was much better than the Warriors performance last year, and James didn't consider that.

And you can keep on worrying about the Heat.
I'm not.
I trust the people who have made this franchise the top or near top players choice of destinations to play to continue to do so.

#blindhomer
#hope

hey we will see who is right and who is wrong in just a couple short months.

 

[trojanfan12]

definitely.

the Cavs wanted Shumpert to start since they traded for him- and he did start at times last year- but after he came back from the injury this year Smith just never gave up the job. He has played great. When Smith is hitting 3's like he did the other night the Cavs go from being a great offensive team to being positively unstoppable- when you have to worry about ANOTHER offensive option outside of Love, LeBron, Irving...definitely a nice thing.

A list of Cavs in how important they are- i think Smith is 5th probably...all though Delly is certainly giving him a run for his money lately

1. Bron
2. KI
3. Love
4. TT
5. JR
6. Delly
7. Shumpert
8. Frye
9. Jefferson
10. Mo (would be higher if not for injuries)

Mo Williams is our 10th guy right now...yet some people in their blithering idiocy think its a good idea to trade Love or Irving for depth. You play 7-9 guys AT MOST in the playoffs.....lol....its just ridiculous.

Can't believe I'm about to say this, but I might have JR 3rd on that list right now. I still wouldn't trust him, but he's playing some of the best basketball of his career. Even in game 1 when the role players didn't play well, you couldn't question JR's effort.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

hey we will see who is right and who is wrong in just a couple short months.

Of course.
This forum is for opinions.
Like I said, normally, I'd agree with you, but please answer this.
Other than power, why did James leave Wade/Bosh?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Can't believe I'm about to say this, but I might have JR 3rd on that list right now. I still wouldn't trust him, but he's playing some of the best basketball of his career. Even in game 1 when the role players didn't play well, you couldn't question JR's effort.

He's 4th, right after James, Love/Kyrie.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Of course.
This forum is for opinions.
Like I said, normally, I'd agree with you, but please answer this.
Other than power, why did James leave Wade/Bosh?

because wade and bosh were getting old
because arison was cheap
because he felt riley took more credit than he deserved
because he wanted to make things right in Cleveland and be able to be in NEO post-career
because Miami asked him to take LESS than the max
because Miami's idea of reloading was Granger, McBob, and Napier

as just some of the reasons.

 

[trojanfan12]

He's 4th, right after James, Love/Kyrie.

Definitely 4th. But, I'd even consider him 3rd because he's been playing defense too. Love doesn't.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Definitely 4th. But, I'd even consider him 3rd because he's been playing defense too. Love doesn't.

Cavs couldve made it to game 6 of the Finals without JR...they couldnt have done it without Thompson last year

he was the heart and soul of the team and I dont think its a question that after LeBron he was the Cavs 2nd best player if you look at the entirety of the playoff run.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

because wade and bosh were getting old
because arison was cheap
because he felt riley took more credit than he deserved
because he wanted to make things right in Cleveland and be able to be in NEO post-career
because Miami asked him to take LESS than the max
because Miami's idea of reloading was Granger, McBob, and Napier

as just some of the reasons.

That's a lot of words to just avoid saying:

"BEACUSE THEY LOST AND HE DIDN'T FEEL THAT GROUP COULD BEAT THE WC WINNER".

Maybe consider that they won it back to back right before that, despite all the bullshit you listed as an answer.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Cavs couldve made it to game 6 of the Finals without JR...they couldnt have done it without Thompson last year

he was the heart and soul of the team and I dont think its a question that after LeBron he was the Cavs 2nd best player if you look at the entirety of the playoff run.

Ummm.
Who is talking last year?

 

[trojanfan12]

Cavs couldve made it to game 6 of the Finals without JR...they couldnt have done it without Thompson last year

he was the heart and soul of the team and I dont think its a question that after LeBron he was the Cavs 2nd best player if you look at the entirety of the playoff run.

I'm just talking right now...in these playoffs. As much as I don't like JR and, as I said, still wouldn't trust him, I can't deny what I've seen. He didn't play particularly well in game 1, but his effort was there. In game 2, I felt he was the best player not named Lebron.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Definitely 4th. But, I'd even consider him 3rd because he's been playing defense too. Love doesn't.

White men can't jump.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's a lot of words to just avoid saying:

"BEACUSE THEY LOST AND HE DIDN'T FEEL THAT GROUP COULD BEAT THE WC WINNER".

Maybe consider that they won it back to back right before that, despite all the bullshit you listed as an answer.

see i dont know if i agree with this at all.

I think if LeBron was being honest- that he MIGHTVE wanted to stay another year in Miami with Wade- but so much of the stuff on the outside was pushing him towards Cleveland

I think he really resented Riley. I think he thought Arison was making a ton of money off him and didnt have enough of his own skin in the game. I think he saw Clevelands up and coming roster- the winning of the lotto- and knew that they were looking to use their cap space before Kyrie signed his extension- as the story goes the plane went from picking up Gordon Heyward to Miami- if LeBron didnt come to Cleveland when he did and he waited a year it might not have been able to happen or if it did happen it would have been a lot more difficult etc.

If we are being super honest i think LeBron never wantedto leave in the first place- but the Cavs had been in win-now mode for so long and traded picks away etc. that the cupboard was just mostly bare and he feared that it might be a long long time or never before they could do something to make the team good enough considering when you have LeBron your always going to be winning and in a hard position to add talent. He was afraid he would never win- and to get the pressure off - going to Miami- winning a couple- getting the monkey off his back and then coming back was lways something he imagined- i just dont think he expected to be back afte 4 years--- but the Heats Organizations stubbornness and obstinance and ego when it came to their Golden Goose rubbed LeBron the wrong way- he saw an opporunity to team up with 2 guys that were just entering their primes that were multi time all stars in his home town where he could make things right and be a hero- in a city that ACTUALLY cares about their sports teams unlike Miami.

 

[gordontrue]

You guys are forgetting about Jordan McRae in your rankings. His Playoff PER is 258.0!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

see i dont know if i agree with this at all.

I think if LeBron was being honest- that he MIGHTVE wanted to stay another year in Miami with Wade- but so much of the stuff on the outside was pushing him towards Cleveland

I think he really resented Riley. I think he thought Arison was making a ton of money off him and didnt have enough of his own skin in the game. I think he saw Clevelands up and coming roster- the winning of the lotto- and knew that they were looking to use their cap space before Kyrie signed his extension- as the story goes the plane went from picking up Gordon Heyward to Miami- if LeBron didnt come to Cleveland when he did and he waited a year it might not have been able to happen or if it did happen it would have been a lot more difficult etc.

If we are being super honest i think LeBron never wantedto leave in the first place- but the Cavs had been in win-now mode for so long and traded picks away etc. that the cupboard was just mostly bare and he feared that it might be a long long time or never before they could do something to make the team good enough considering when you have LeBron your always going to be winning and in a hard position to add talent. He was afraid he would never win- and to get the pressure off - going to Miami- winning a couple- getting the monkey off his back and then coming back was lways something he imagined- i just dont think he expected to be back afte 4 years--- but the Heats Organizations stubbornness and obstinance and ego when it came to their Golden Goose rubbed LeBron the wrong way- he saw an opporunity to team up with 2 guys that were just entering their primes that were multi time all stars in his home town where he could make things right and be a hero- in a city that ACTUALLY cares about their sports teams unlike Miami.

I agree with parts of this, but a lot is just the sane old rhetoric.

1. Money. Heat never said he couldn't get a max the summer he left. Actually is was the opposite.

2. I don't think he cares/cared where he played. He's going where he feels he can win rings until he feels he can't win rings at that place.

3. He came here because of what Riley/Arison were and what they offered. Nothing changed between 2010 and 2015.

4. Heat has/had much better attendance with and WITHOUT James, then Cavs do/did. It's a myth that Heat fans aren't legit. The ones that left when James did (just like you did when he left the Cavs) were never fans to begin with.