Your Top 25 MLB Players of All-Time

[broncosmitty]

Ted>>>>>Bonds

If you're crazy.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Ted Williams was a bad ass and he missed 3 prime time seasons (Between the ages of 23 and 26) for military service

He missed most of 2 more seasons, age 33/34 to fight in Korea. And the year before he left and the year he got back, he led the league in wRC+ both times.

 

[JohnU]

Koufax was the best pitcher of the 60s to me. Which means he's a rightful HOFer and an all-time great. You can be great, but also overrated. If someone wants to say he's an all-time great pitcher and a HOFer, you won't hear an argument from me. When people claim he's a top 25 player all-time, a top 5 pitcher of all-time, or the best lefty of all-time, then I'm going to say that's overrating him.

I can't say he is or isn't the best ever, or in the top 5. Hell, for all I know ... Herb Score should have been that guy except for a line drive to the eye socket. I really have issues with all the "all-time" lists that are based on numbers in eras that don't overlap or even coincide.

Guys hitting balls over the short fence in the LA Coliseum or trying to hit one out in CF in the Polo Grounds. Day games, train rides, 8-team leagues where the same 3 or 4 pitchers faced another team 6 times ... no relief pitchers, doubleheaders in August on Sundays ... coming to spring camp out of shape ... I just think we get obsessed with lists.

The metrics seem to try to compare players but honestly, do they really? Either way, I think Koufax is properly seeded in this conversation as one of the best lefthanders from the 1960s and he probably would have been as well in the 70s. All-time? Dunno ... I'd put him in my rotation.

 

[jon2tanman]

If you're crazy.

Bonds was an overrated defender.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Anything with a plus sign is make believe to me. Not a fan of adjusting reality with hard math.

And yeah, those are the other four.

Bonds is the only guy I'd put in Ruth's class.

1-2 then a drop off.

5th best outfielder ever isn't a dig. He missed a chunk of his prime because he was a damn good American. JoeD and Hank Greenberg take the Patriotic hit too.

Well adjusting based on the hitting/pitching environment of the time shows how they compared to their peers. Which is how you win games, you play better than your peers.

But take out the plus sign if you like, wRC+ derives from wOBA, which he has the 2nd highest of all-time. He also has the 2nd highest OPS.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Anything with a plus sign is make believe to me. Not a fan of adjusting reality with hard math.

And yeah, those are the other four.

Bonds is the only guy I'd put in Ruth's class.

1-2 then a drop off.

5th best outfielder ever isn't a dig. He missed a chunk of his prime because he was a damn good American. JoeD and Hank Greenberg take the Patriotic hit too.

And that's fine, I have him as the 4th best outfielder of all-time and just 1 spot ahead of Cobb on the all-time list. So really arguing he's the 5th greatest OFer against where most people rank him is splitting hairs.

 

[JohnU]

He missed most of 2 more seasons, age 33/34 to fight in Korea. And the year before he left and the year he got back, he led the league in wRC+ both times.

All that missing time for service does is reduce his overall career numbers (or the success of the team) but if he showed this talent either side of that missed time, that's really not relevant. We know Williams could hit so the only thing missing is what numbers he'd have put up if he'd played.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Bonds was an overrated defender.

Even if he is overrated defensively, I'd still take Bonds. Williams was a better hitter across the board, but Bonds has a couple things going for him. 1. He played longer. You can credit Williams for serving, but those games didn't happen. You can't just plug them in like they did. 2. Bonds also had the ability to steal bags. and 3. Even though Bonds may have been overrated defensively, he was still better than Williams.

Maybe, if Williams had played those 5 extra seasons, the gap in hitting would have been enough to make up for the other gaps. But I'm a Red Sox fan, and objectively, Bonds wins out.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I can't say he is or isn't the best ever, or in the top 5. Hell, for all I know ... Herb Score should have been that guy except for a line drive to the eye socket. I really have issues with all the "all-time" lists that are based on numbers in eras that don't overlap or even coincide.

Guys hitting balls over the short fence in the LA Coliseum or trying to hit one out in CF in the Polo Grounds. Day games, train rides, 8-team leagues where the same 3 or 4 pitchers faced another team 6 times ... no relief pitchers, doubleheaders in August on Sundays ... coming to spring camp out of shape ... I just think we get obsessed with lists.

The metrics seem to try to compare players but honestly, do they really? Either way, I think Koufax is properly seeded in this conversation as one of the best lefthanders from the 1960s and he probably would have been as well in the 70s. All-time? Dunno ... I'd put him in my rotation.

Lists are fun. They won't be 100% correct because we can never know, but making them, and the discussions, are enjoyable.

 

[JohnU]

Lists are fun. They won't be 100% correct because we can never know, but making them, and the discussions, are enjoyable.

I agree they are fun. So long as we don't attach any real importance to them, and I don't suggest we are.

 

[broncosmitty]

Bonds was an overrated defender.

Thats fine.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Spahn's absurd longevity and durability should not be overlooked. But how many seasons was he the best pitcher in baseball?

The guy has the most wins in the modern era after missing 4 years to military service, he didn't have a full season till he was 26 years old. Add in the fact he had a career era of just over 3 in the biggest hitters' era in history, he is top 3 ALL TIME among starting pitchers in my opinion.
I'd take Spahn, Seaver and Maddux top 3 post WWII.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Thats fine.

Did you mean Bonds is the only guy you put in Ruth's class as far as hitting? If so, why would you have Bonds as a better hitter than Williams?

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Barry Bonds had to bat against pitchers who were on PEDs

Bonds is the poster boy for PEDs use.
I hope he has an incurable rash on his anus.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Did you mean Bonds is the only guy you put in Ruth's class as far as hitting? If so, why would you have Bonds as a better hitter than Williams?

Williams on PEDs, now that is a scary thought.

 

[soxfan1468927]

The guy has the most wins in the modern era after missing 4 years to military service, he didn't have a full season till he was 26 years old. Add in the fact he had a career era of just over 3 in the biggest hitters' era in history, he is top 3 ALL TIME among starting pitchers in my opinion.
I'd take Spahn, Seaver and Maddux top 3 post WWII.

1. His longevity and durability is a big reason why he got all those wins. Which I already said shouldn't be overlooked.
2. Not even close to the biggest hitter's era in history. The league ERA from 1946-1963 was 3.91. The 30s and late 90s were bigger hitter's eras.
3. Post WW2 I would take Seaver, Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Pedro, and then Spahn.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Williams on PEDs, now that is a scary thought.

I do not care about steroids.

 

[soxfan1468927]

The guy has the most wins in the modern era after missing 4 years to military service, he didn't have a full season till he was 26 years old. Add in the fact he had a career era of just over 3 in the biggest hitters' era in history, he is top 3 ALL TIME among starting pitchers in my opinion.
I'd take Spahn, Seaver and Maddux top 3 post WWII.

And usually in baseball, the "modern era" is considered 1901 (formation of the AL) to the present. In which case, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, and Pete Alexander all had more wins. If you mean post-WW2 than fine.

 

[UK Cowboy]

It seems like every baseball forum has a thread counting down the top 100 players of all time for each poster. While I don't have time for that this morning, I will count down my top 25, and you can all do the same.

Rules:

• Only stats from the AL or NL count. Nothing from the Confederate League, AA, ***** Leagues, etc.
• This is a thread for the greatest players of all time, not the greatest players with potential of all time (sorry Roy Campanella)
• Count contributions for both pitching, hitting, and defense (i.e., you can count how great a pitcher Babe Ruth was)
• Factor in PED's how you'd like

Here we go:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ty Cobb
4. Willie Mays
5. Ted Williams
6. Honus Wagner
7. Roger Clemens
8. Rogers Hornsby
9. Cy Young
10. Stan Musial
11. Tris Speaker
12. Hank Aaron
13. Walter Johnson
14. Eddie Collins
15. Lou Gehrig
16. Randy Johnson
17. Mickey Mantle
18. Mike Schmidt
19. Mel Ott
20. Nap Lajoie
21. Frank Robinson
22. Rickey Henderson
23. Greg Maddux
24. Jimmie Foxx
25. Roger Connor

The greatest lefty pitcher ever and second best righty doesn't make your top 25

 

[soxfan1468927]

The greatest lefty pitcher ever and second best righty doesn't make your top 25

Who are you referring to?