Your Top 25 MLB Players of All-Time

[Shanemansj13]

A lot of people think that, which is why I think he's extremely overrated.

A lot of people think lots of players are legends, so you overrate them too? Just asking, not being a smart ass, everyone has their own opinion.

He had one of the best primes of any pitcher, although a short career. He is arguably the best left-handed SP of all-time. Won 3 Cy Youngs in a span of 4 years. In those 4 years his highest ERA was 2.04, led the league in SO's 3 out of those 4 years. Led the league in FIP 6 straight years, WHIP 4 straight years, H/9 5 straight years, SO/9 6 out of 7 straight years. Literally the only thing you can argue about him is his longevity, nothing about him is overrated IMO

 

[Shanemansj13]

Not to mention, he has 2 WS MVP's. He had 7 career starts in the playoffs and has 0.95 ERA. Has given up 6 ER in 57 innings. Pretty remarkable

 

[soxfan1468927]

A lot of people think lots of players are legends, so you overrate them too? Just asking, not being a smart ass, everyone has their own opinion.

He had one of the best primes of any pitcher, although a short career. He is arguably the best left-handed SP of all-time. Won 3 Cy Youngs in a span of 4 years. In those 4 years his highest ERA was 2.04, led the league in SO's 3 out of those 4 years. Led the league in FIP 6 straight years, WHIP 4 straight years, H/9 5 straight years, SO/9 6 out of 7 straight years. Literally the only thing you can argue about him is his longevity, nothing about him is overrated IMO

That question doesn't make sense. I lot of people think lots of players are legends, are you asking if I think they're overrated? Some yes, some no. Babe Ruth isn't overrated because he's rated accurately as the best player ever by most people. Koufax is rated by many people as one of the greatest pitchers ever and I don't think he was close.

I'm well aware of everything Koufax did. But his career was way too short to be considered one of the best ever. And his prime needs to be put into context. He had 3 seasons where he was top 5 in ERA and IP. That's not enough. And those 6 straight years he led in FIP, in 2 of them he couldn't crack the top 10 in IP. Technically he "qualified" for the ERA title the year he threw 184 innings, but for the time that's not enough.

And his ERA looks amazing now, but it's not as dominant as it seems because of the era. From 1962-1966 the league ERA was 3.60 and his was 1.95. That's 54% of the league average, or about a 2.27 ERA last year. So basically what Kyle Hendricks was. Great season, and really great to do it over 5 years, but not otherworldy.

I don't know how you can put Koufax over Grove or Johnson. Sandy Koufax had a 5-year prime with an ERA+ of 167. Lefty Grove had a 14-year prime with an ERA+ of 158. Almost triple the innings pitched. Randy Johnson had a 10-year prime with an ERA+ of 171 with 650 more innings pitched with 5 Cy Young Awards in that time.

So, in conclusion, I think he's overrated because people skate over the fact that he did really had only 3 dominant seasons AND those seasons weren't as dominant as they appeared on the surface due to the pitching environment of the time.

 

[Voltaire26]

Instead of the greatest 25, I picked the all time team (25 players)


C – Johnny Bench (R)

1B – Lou Gehrig (L)

2B – Rogers Hornsby (R)

SS – Honus Wagner (R)

3B – Mike Schmidt (R)

DH – Barry Bonds (L)

RF – Babe Ruth (L)

CF – Ty Cobb (L)

LF – Ted Williams (L)


OF – Willie Mays (R)

UT – Pete Rose (S)

INF – Alex Rodriguez (R)

INF – Jackie Robinson (R)a

C – Ivan Rodriguez (R)


SP – Walter Johnson (R)

SP – Sandy Koufax (L)

SP – Roger Clemens (R)

SP – Clayton Kershaw (L)

SP – Pedro Martinez (R)

RP – Randy Johnson (L)

RP – Christy Mathewson (R)

RP – Bob Gibson (R)

RP – Andrew Miller (L)

RP – Dennis Eckersley (R)

CL – Mariano Rivera (R)

 

[Clayton]

My personal opinion on Pujols was that he shipped off to Anaheim and kicked over the can on the way out of town.

For some reason, it seems baseball purists don't have much respect for the Angels. If Pujols had stayed in St. Louis (salary considerations aside) I think his inclusion on the all-time list would have already occurred.

Pujols was breaking down a tiny bit in STL to be honest. I dont think it has anything to do with the Angels.

Pujols does have 14 good seasons. Its not bad. Gehrig had 14 (obviously a big * there). Hornsby had 15. He doesn't have to put in a Stan Musial performance of 19 and take a prime possible MVP year off to go to war or anything but he is only a bit behind a lot of other people that are getting ranked highly imo. He is a bit behind, though. I guess the only way to move him up at this point is if you think era differences help him but he is kinda fringe elite in terms of the all timers.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Instead of the greatest 25, I picked the all time team (25 players)


C – Johnny Bench (R)

1B – Lou Gehrig (L)

2B – Rogers Hornsby (R)

SS – Honus Wagner (R)

3B – Mike Schmidt (R)

DH – Barry Bonds (L)

RF – Babe Ruth (L)

CF – Ty Cobb (L)

LF – Ted Williams (L)


OF – Willie Mays (R)

UT – Pete Rose (S)

INF – Alex Rodriguez (R)

INF – Jackie Robinson (R)a

C – Ivan Rodriguez (R)


SP – Walter Johnson (R)

SP – Sandy Koufax (L)

SP – Roger Clemens (R)

SP – Clayton Kershaw (L)

SP – Pedro Martinez (R)

RP – Randy Johnson (L)

RP – Christy Mathewson (R)

RP – Bob Gibson (R)

RP – Andrew Miller (L)

RP – Dennis Eckersley (R)

CL – Mariano Rivera (R)

Pretty much completely agree with your lineup. Except Williams should DH and Bonds should play LF and I would put Mays over Cobb (but I think both are top 5 position players all time).

For the bench, I would have:

OF: Ty Cobb
OF: Hank Aaron
INF: Eddie Collins
INF: Albert Pujols
C: Gary Carter

 

[soxfan1468927]

Pujols was breaking down a tiny bit in STL to be honest. I dont think it has anything to do with the Angels.

Pujols does have 14 good seasons. Its not bad. Gehrig had 14 (obviously a big * there). Hornsby had 15. He doesn't have to put in a Stan Musial performance of 19 and take a prime possible MVP year off to go to war or anything but he is only a bit behind a lot of other people that are getting ranked highly imo. He is a bit behind, though. I guess the only way to move him up at this point is if you think era differences help him but he is kinda fringe elite in terms of the all timers.

Gehrig from 1925-1938 was better than Pujols from 2001-2014 though. And Hornsby was clearly better, especially when you think about the positional difference.

Gehrig's 14 year prime was better than Pujols 10 year prime, in my opinion. That's why I think he needed 5-7 more years like his first 10 to surpass Gehrig.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Not to mention, he has 2 WS MVP's. He had 7 career starts in the playoffs and has 0.95 ERA. Has given up 6 ER in 57 innings. Pretty remarkable

Yeah I know he was a great pitcher. I don't think this puts him over Lefty Grove or Randy Johnson (and I don't think it's particularly close). That's why I think he's overrated, because I always hear that 1. He's possibly the greatest lefty ever and 2. He's one of the greatest pitchers ever. I disagree strongly with both of those statements.

 

[JohnU]

Yeah I know he was a great pitcher. I don't think this puts him over Lefty Grove or Randy Johnson (and I don't think it's particularly close). That's why I think he's overrated, because I always hear that 1. He's possibly the greatest lefty ever and 2. He's one of the greatest pitchers ever. I disagree strongly with both of those statements.

Koufax was the dominant pitcher inside a short window of his era. Easily the best lefty of the early-to-mid '60s. Not sure if his longevity puts him in the top 5 all-time but the arthritis ... oh, well.

Of lefties in the modern generation (since the first expansion) ... Randy Johnson and Steve Carlton.

Koufax learned to be a great pitcher, so there's that.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Koufax was the dominant pitcher inside a short window of his era. Easily the best lefty of the early-to-mid '60s. Not sure if his longevity puts him in the top 5 all-time but the arthritis ... oh, well.

Of lefties in the modern generation (since the first expansion) ... Randy Johnson and Steve Carlton.

Koufax learned to be a great pitcher, so there's that.

Koufax was the best pitcher of the 60s to me. Which means he's a rightful HOFer and an all-time great. You can be great, but also overrated. If someone wants to say he's an all-time great pitcher and a HOFer, you won't hear an argument from me. When people claim he's a top 25 player all-time, a top 5 pitcher of all-time, or the best lefty of all-time, then I'm going to say that's overrating him.

 

[Voltaire26]

Pretty much completely agree with your lineup. Except Williams should DH and Bonds should play LF and I would put Mays over Cobb (but I think both are top 5 position players all time).

For the bench, I would have:

OF: Ty Cobb
OF: Hank Aaron
INF: Eddie Collins
INF: Albert Pujols
C: Gary Carter

I can't argue on Mays over Cobb - real close - I am a Tiger fan and Cobb is my leadoff hitter.
I can think of about 5 other Outfielders before Aaron (too much of a prima donna)
Jackie Robinson over Collins. Close, I just like what Robinson meant to the game.
A. Rod over Pujols because of position SS/3B greater than 1B (or I would have picked Miguel)
I. Rod over Carter. Tiger fan!!

 

[soxfan1468927]

I can't argue on Mays over Cobb - real close - I am a Tiger fan and Cobb is my leadoff hitter.
I can think of about 5 other Outfielders before Aaron (too much of a prima donna)
Jackie Robinson over Collins. Close, I just like what Robinson meant to the game.
A. Rod over Pujols because of position SS/3B greater than 1B (or I would have picked Miguel)
I. Rod over Carter. Tiger fan!!

I don't care about Aaron being a prima donna, I'll take him off the bench any day. I'd consider Musial, or Henderson obviously for the baserunning threat. I'd like to have a backup 1B/3B on the team as well as a back up SS/2B. That's why I went with Pujols.

 

[Clayton]

Gehrig's 14 year prime was better than Pujols 10 year prime, in my opinion. That's why I think he needed 5-7 more years like his first 10 to surpass Gehrig.

And thats fair enough. I dont think he has passed Gehrig and he is only 30th in WAR and thats likely not going much higher. He might push that up to 25th but I doubt that is going to happen. A rough list for me mostly based on WAR (certainly not entirely, though) would be:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Walter Johnson
3. Willie Mays
4. Ty Cobb
5. Cy Young
6. Ted Williams
7. Barry Bonds
8. Hank Aaron
9. Stan Musial
10. Roger Clemens
11. Rogers Hornsby
12. Honus Wagner
13. Lou Gehrig
14. Tris Speaker
15. Eddie Collins
16. Pete Alexander
17. Mickey Mantle
18. Kid Nichols
19. Rickey Henderson
20. Mike Schmidt
21. Greg Maddux
22. Randy Johnson
23. Alex Rodriguez
24. Mel Ott
25. Tom Seaver

So I dont have Pujols on my first glance, either.

 

[Voltaire26]

I don't care about Aaron being a prima donna, I'll take him off the bench any day. I'd consider Musial, or Henderson obviously for the baserunning threat. I'd like to have a backup 1B/3B on the team as well as a back up SS/2B. That's why I went with Pujols.

Henderson was tough to keep off. What an annoying fuck ... I would not want Henderson on a team I was playing against.

 

[broncosmitty]

@Omar 382

Roys car accident might've helped him statistically. His career was nearly over.

You gotta get past his car accident man.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Ty Cobb
Bath Ruth
Hank Aaron
Lou Gehrig
Lefty Grove
Tris Speaker
Stan Musial
Walter Johnson
Willie Mays
Johnny Bench
Ted Williams
Ken Griffey jr
Greg Maddux
Rogers Hornby
Mickey Mantle
Honus Wagner
Tom Seaver
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Christie Matthewson
Eddy Collins
Mike Schmitt
Warren Spahn
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Mariano Rivera

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah I know he was a great pitcher. I don't think this puts him over Lefty Grove or Randy Johnson (and I don't think it's particularly close). That's why I think he's overrated, because I always hear that 1. He's possibly the greatest lefty ever and 2. He's one of the greatest pitchers ever. I disagree strongly with both of those statements.

That's why I said longevity is the only issue, still a top 3 lefty of all-time IMO. Randy and Lefty are right up there as well. I wouldn't have a problem with anyone putting Randy at 1 honestly.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Pretty much completely agree with your lineup. Except Williams should DH and Bonds should play LF and I would put Mays over Cobb (but I think both are top 5 position players all time).

For the bench, I would have:

OF: Ty Cobb
OF: Hank Aaron
INF: Eddie Collins
INF: Albert Pujols
C: Gary Carter

Eddie Collins is over-rated IMO... I really don't get why people like him more than Joe Morgan...

 

[broncosmitty]

Way too much value on Ted Williams in this thread as well.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Pretty much completely agree with your lineup. Except Williams should DH and Bonds should play LF and I would put Mays over Cobb (but I think both are top 5 position players all time).

For the bench, I would have:

OF: Ty Cobb
OF: Hank Aaron
INF: Eddie Collins
INF: Albert Pujols
C: Gary Carter

I would take Jimmy Foxx or Pujols