Wilson going to the Broncos

[Southieinnc]

It's not used car salesman stuff, just simple math. $37M with Russell Wilson vs $26M without. Again, this isn't new cap space phenomena. After the trade, they have $11M more cap space than they did before. It would cost them MORE in cap space to have RW on the team for '22.

And think about how much they'll save having a useless fill-in at QB

 

[returnofjakedog]

And think about how much they'll save having a useless fill-in at QB

Drew Lock makes about $1.75 million a year.

Having to extend RW next offseason at about $50 million a year (thanks GB!) was apparently unpalatable to the Seahawks. It will be interesting to see what kind of extension Denver offers him.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And think about how much they'll save having a useless fill-in at QB

Like Cam Newton?

 

[returnofjakedog]

Like Cam Newton?

Cam?!? God NO!
Don't give me a heart attack like that!

I think that just about anyone would be better than Cam at this point.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Cam?!? God NO!
Don't give me a heart attack like that!

I think that just about anyone would be better than Cam at this point.

Didn't the Pats sign Cam at some point?

 

[Southieinnc]

Didn't the Pats sign Cam at some point?

Never happened!

 

[JMR]

$40 million to play or not - $51 million to trade or cut. They just don't have the option to let him go for peanuts as it'll bury them either way.

From what I see on overthecap, that's not correct. A post 1-June trade represents only $5M dead cap for Houston and a cap savings of $35M. If Houston holds onto him for '22, he counts the sum of those 2 numbers ($40.4M) against their cap. The numbers change dramatically if they take action prior to 1 June to get him off their roster, however.

 

[blstoker]

From what I see on overthecap, that's not correct. A post 1-June trade represents only $5M dead cap for Houston and a cap savings of $35M. If Houston holds onto him for '22, he counts the sum of those 2 numbers ($40.4M) against their cap. The numbers change dramatically if they take action prior to 1 June to get him off their roster, however.

Why would you assume it'll be post June 1. While it's possible, most rosters will be set, and if Seattle holds 75% of their cap space in reserve for this trade then they will be a nonfactor in this restructure and may as well just blow the team to hell and start from scratch.

I will admit that I had my numbers off for trade, it's not $51 million, that's just cut. It's $16 million for trade

 

[JMR]

Now look at it this way......you have the goat x4, two hired guns after the team was built (Manning and Stafford), Mahomes on a rookie deal and the outlier in Foles.

It's almost like you should build a team first and then bring in a QB to top it off.......or have the GOAT, which Wilson isn't.

Yeah, having a solid team first and then adding a really good QB is maybe ideal, but one of the difficult aspects of that is usually teams that don't have good QBs are expending considerable resources (e.g. draft capital) to get one, which in turn makes it much more difficult to stockpile talent at other positions. I guess if you can focus on stop-gap type veteran QBs while building the rest of the roster that could set the stage to add that QB, but then you have to make the gamble you nail the QB before the other key players become expensive, decide to get paid elsewhere, get old, etc.

 

[JMR]

Why would you assume it'll be post June 1. While it's possible, most rosters will be set, and if Seattle holds 75% of their cap space in reserve for this trade then they will be a nonfactor in this restructure and may as well just blow the team to hell and start from scratch.

I am not assuming anything -- just stating the fact that Houston *can* unload him after 1 June and save big time on their salary cap. Trading him is not untenable for them, and they may not demand some huge price tag in return since they would benefit greatly from not having his salary bit into their cap (especially since they didn't even play him in '21).

 

[JMR]

And think about how much they'll save having a useless fill-in at QB

Yes, I am clearly on board with having a really good QB and having to pay them the going rate, and I would prefer it if we didn't trade Russell. However, it's also true as a statement of fact that trading him saves the team $11M against the '22 cap.

 

[MrS]

Yeah, having a solid team first and then adding a really good QB is maybe ideal, but one of the difficult aspects of that is usually teams that don't have good QBs are expending considerable resources (e.g. draft capital) to get one, which in turn makes it much more difficult to stockpile talent at other positions. I guess if you can focus on stop-gap type veteran QBs while building the rest of the roster that could set the stage to add that QB, but then you have to make the gamble you nail the QB before the other key players become expensive, decide to get paid elsewhere, get old, etc.

this is the formula they may attempt to follow. build up the defense and OL and running game, build an environment in which a young QB can succeed ala 2012. too often we see teams throw QBs into shit teams and they fail I think in large part because of that

 

[blstoker]

this is the formula they may attempt to follow. build up the defense and OL and running game, build an environment in which a young QB can succeed ala 2012. too often we see teams throw QBs into shit teams and they fail I think in large part because of that

And that formula can work. People forget that the Patriots were a top 10 defense every year Tom Brady won the Super Bowl but 1 (2002, 17), as well as Tampa. I'm good with that strategy, which is why I hope they don't spend too much capital on a QB before rebuilding the roster.

 

[JMR]

this is the formula they may attempt to follow. build up the defense and OL and running game, build an environment in which a young QB can succeed ala 2012. too often we see teams throw QBs into shit teams and they fail I think in large part because of that

If you trade away a bona fide HOF stud QB (regardless of why the trade was made or who forced the issue), then I guess by default you turn to relying on other parts of the team (defense and run game, as you state) to carry the day. The times of having Steve Young waiting behind Joe Montana are long over.

So does it now make sense to invest in a guy like DK Metcalf? He'll be wanting a new deal a year from now. Does it make sense to hold onto Lockett? He's not cheap, doesn't have many prime years left, so wouldn't it be better to get what we can for him? Did re-signing Rashaad Penny just become a greater priority now that we will need to be relying more on the ground game to put points on the board?

Lots of looming decisions have now come out of this trade.

 

[flyerhawk]

And that formula can work. People forget that the Patriots were a top 10 defense every year Tom Brady won the Super Bowl but 1 (2002, 17), as well as Tampa. I'm good with that strategy, which is why I hope they don't spend too much capital on a QB before rebuilding the roster.

Yeah. But the Patriots didn't get rid of Brady because he was getting paid a lot of money. Mahomes is getting paid 40 million a year. I don't think anyone thinks the Chiefs should trade him.

The Seahawks have struggled for the past 5 or 6 years because A) the defense hasn't been very good and B) the offensive line has hovered between bad and atrocious.

A lot of people talk about how the Seahawks offense fell off a cliff in 2020 because teams switched to a Cover-2. And there is some truth to that. But the other problem we had was that we started seeing injuries on the line. Brandon Shell goes down and all of the sudden the entire OL starts to fall apart. And it's not because he was some All Pro stud. It's because while the starting offensive line can range from mediocre to competent, the backups are generally terrible.

Does this mean that Russ is without fault? Of course not. He's made plenty of mistakes. But if your defense can't stop the other team and OL can't block, your QB has to be near perfect to succeed which is close to impossible.

All this is to say that the problem with the team wasn't Russell Wilson. The problem is the team doesn't execute to the level it needs to. Whether that's because we don't bring in the right players or because the coaches don't put the players in a position to succeed can be debated.

 

[returnofjakedog]

If you trade away a bona fide HOF stud QB (regardless of why the trade was made or who forced the issue), then I guess by default you turn to relying on other parts of the team (defense and run game, as you state) to carry the day. The times of having Steve Young waiting behind Joe Montana are long over.

So does it now make sense to invest in a guy like DK Metcalf? He'll be wanting a new deal a year from now. Does it make sense to hold onto Lockett? He's not cheap, doesn't have many prime years left, so wouldn't it be better to get what we can for him? Did re-signing Rashaad Penny just become a greater priority now that we will need to be relying more on the ground game to put points on the board?

Lots of looming decisions have now come out of this trade.

I think DK should be traded now while he has max value. He wasn't always happy with Russ throwing the ball, I can't imagine it would get better with Lock or whatever band aid we throw out there next year.

 

[blstoker]

Yeah. But the Patriots didn't get rid of Brady because he was getting paid a lot of money. Mahomes is getting paid 40 million a year. I don't think anyone thinks the Chiefs should trade him.

The Seahawks have struggled for the past 5 or 6 years because A) the defense hasn't been very good and B) the offensive line has hovered between bad and atrocious.

A lot of people talk about how the Seahawks offense fell off a cliff in 2020 because teams switched to a Cover-2. And there is some truth to that. But the other problem we had was that we started seeing injuries on the line. Brandon Shell goes down and all of the sudden the entire OL starts to fall apart. And it's not because he was some All Pro stud. It's because while the starting offensive line can range from mediocre to competent, the backups are generally terrible.

Does this mean that Russ is without fault? Of course not. He's made plenty of mistakes. But if your defense can't stop the other team and OL can't block, your QB has to be near perfect to succeed which is close to impossible.

All this is to say that the problem with the team wasn't Russell Wilson. The problem is the team doesn't execute to the level it needs to. Whether that's because we don't bring in the right players or because the coaches don't put the players in a position to succeed can be debated.

I agree, and if we hadn't traded Wilson I thought we could've still addressed the issues to the line and defense and moved forward as a playoff contender. Now that they've traded him away, I'd be a lot more inclined to address the issues across the roster before getting the QB in place.

Yes, the Tom Brady example was just to show that defense has a huge impact on how even a top tier QB does in team success. New England was able to capitalize on cheaper high performing pieces while having their QB, which Seattle obviously hasn't been able to do as well.

 

[blstoker]

The more I think about it, the more I think the issue I really have with the trade was sending our 4th rounder with Wilson. Why do we always throw in one of our own picks? What piece would Denver have nixed the trade over the 4th rounder?

I'm being facetious.....................sort of

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think DK should be traded now while he has max value. He wasn't always happy with Russ throwing the ball, I can't imagine it would get better with Lock or whatever band aid we throw out there next year.

I think that could be in the cards, specially if he indicates he doesn't want to resign. Be a really nice trade chip to boot. I also see Carson, Dunlop being cut post june 1st. Right now the Seahawks have zoomed back to having 50 million in cap space and cutting Carson and Dunlop would add another 10 million in cap space. I now doubt they resign injury prone Penny since they have a whole slew of picks they can now draft a young health RB for "pennies".
I look at teams that need to do something about cap space and see opportunities to either snag a cap causality or make a trade with those teams. Maybe address OL in trades or free agency. Heck Cam Robinson now is possible for example. Thinking about next years cap space ( 142 million) has me giddy. Really looking forward to the next two drafts where the Seahawks are loaded with draft capitol.
Trading RW has the Seahawks with room to maneuver via the draft, free agency or trades. That's been missing for years and years. I'm really excited about football again. Now I'm busy looking at players available in the draft, looking at free agents for 2022 but even more for 2023, considering trade possibilities. Football is fun again!

 

[returnofjakedog]

I think that could be in the cards, specially if he indicates he doesn't want to resign. Be a really nice trade chip to boot. I also see Carson, Dunlop being cut post june 1st. Right now the Seahawks have zoomed back to having 50 million in cap space and cutting Carson and Dunlop would add another 10 million in cap space. I now doubt they resign injury prone Penny since they have a whole slew of picks they can now draft a young health RB for "pennies".
I look at teams that need to do something about cap space and see opportunities to either snag a cap causality or make a trade with those teams. Maybe address OL in trades or free agency. Heck Cam Robinson now is possible for example. Thinking about next years cap space ( 142 million) has me giddy. Really looking forward to the next two drafts where the Seahawks are loaded with draft capitol.
Trading RW has the Seahawks with room to maneuver via the draft, free agency or trades. That's been missing for years and years. I'm really excited about football again. Now I'm busy looking at players available in the draft, looking at free agents for 2022 but even more for 2023, considering trade possibilities. Football is fun again!

All fair points, but I think that watching this team next year is going to be a bit of a painful slog. I'm currently think 5 is over/under on wins.