Game Thread: Thursday Night: Seahawks vs Dallas: Week 13

[PolarVortex]

Why is it that I knew all the way through that game that the Seahawks would lose somehow? The last two drives ended with 3 consecutive incomplete passes and 4 consecutive incomplete passes.

Geno is better than Lock. But, this team isn't going far in the playoffs with him as QB, and that is assuming the Seahawks make the playoffs. Looking at the remaining schedule I think they finish 9-8. Will that good enough? I don't know.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's all fair. The punt thing is a little misleading though. Yes, Dallas never punted, but Seattle stopped them on 3rd down twice where Dallas decided to just go for it on 4th down instead of punting/kicking. A lot of teams are using the analytics and going for it more on 4th down than ever before. Those times where they go for it now would have been punts in the past. Dallas never forced us to punt either. I think I read that that is only the 5th time in NFL history where neither team had a punt.

I agree but they showed a stat last night that said that there have only been 6 games ever with zero punts.

 

[JMR]

I think our chances of getting past the first round of the playoffs are most likely gone.

Oh, I am sure we would be underdogs and unlikely to win a game. I didn't think the Giants would win a game (or even make the playoffs) last year either, and they did. Probably depends on the draw. If it's SF, then we get smoked. If it's a team from the NFCN, then maybe a decent shot.

But ultimately I think the team has had the same problems for the past 5 or 6 years. Mediocre defense and spotty OL play.

I think the defense has almost completely turned over from 5 years ago, and it was well below mediocre almost all of last year and has been substantially better at times this year (just not against top offenses, which is why they are top offenses). The center of gravity of the team 5 years ago was the QB. It's shifted away from that now.

Given how much we have invested on the D, we have to wonder if the problem is Pete

I think the defense is generally on the right track. If you can for a moment set aside what just happened vs 2 of the league's best offenses, overall they've done pretty well this year. Have kept us in games (like Cleveland and Rams II) when the offense was doing nothing. If there is a problem to attribute to Pete, it's the penalties. I think it's just what you get with him at the helm.

 

[flyerhawk]

Oh, I am sure we would be underdogs and unlikely to win a game. I didn't think the Giants would win a game (or even make the playoffs) last year either, and they did. Probably depends on the draw. If it's SF, then we get smoked. If it's a team from the NFCN, then maybe a decent shot.

I think the defense has almost completely turned over from 5 years ago, and it was well below mediocre almost all of last year and has been substantially better at times this year (just not against top offenses, which is why they are top offenses). The center of gravity of the team 5 years ago was the QB. It's shifted away from that now.


I think the defense is generally on the right track. If you can for a moment set aside what just happened vs 2 of the league's best offenses, overall they've done pretty well this year. Have kept us in games (like Cleveland and Rams II) when the offense was doing nothing. If there is a problem to attribute to Pete, it's the penalties. I think it's just what you get with him at the helm.

I think the defense is better this year. But it went from a bottom 5 defense to a bottom 16 defense. Improvement certainly but given the talent on the defense, I question how it isn't better than it is.

Now, in fairness to Pete, we seem to be heavily targeted for penalties, more than any other team. Part of that is a lack if discipline, to be sure, but also I think the refs are looking for it with us.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think the defense is better this year. But it went from a bottom 5 defense to a bottom 16 defense. Improvement certainly but given the talent on the defense, I question how it isn't better than it is.

Now, in fairness to Pete, we seem to be heavily targeted for penalties, more than any other team. Part of that is a lack if discipline, to be sure, but also I think the refs are looking for it with us.

I do agree that the defense has improved and that penalties need to be cut down, here's the top offenders:



Obviously the secondary needs to cut back on penalties especial Woolen and not surprised to see Metcalf in this group of top offenders. A little surprised to see Geno in the group. Another problem is covering crossing routes by Wagner, LBs have a hard time keeping up with speedy receivers in the first place and once they lose a step it can be a problem and has been.

 

[flyerhawk]

I do agree that the defense has improved and that penalties need to be cut down, here's the top offenders:

View attachment 347586

Obviously the secondary needs to cut back on penalties especial Woolen and not surprised to see Metcalf in this group of top offenders. A little surprised to see Geno in the group. Another problem is covering crossing routes by Wagner, LBs have a hard time keeping up with speedy receivers in the first place and once they lose a step it can be a problem and has been.

Geno is probably there for delay of game fouls.

IMO, we need to find out if Olu can be a legit C. He appeared good in spot moments.

 

[Anointed One]

Geno is probably there for delay of game fouls.

Two or three of them are intentional grounding

 

[flyerhawk]

Two or three of them are intentional grounding

Yeah. I would imagine the QB is almost always a leader in penalties on teams.

 

[JMR]

I think the defense is better this year. But it went from a bottom 5 defense to a bottom 16 defense. Improvement certainly but given the talent on the defense, I question how it isn't better than it is.

Yeah, I look at it a lot like stock market performance. There are rises and falls as you go along. Hard numbers right after playing SF and Dallas in consecutive games are going to be down, but if you zoom out a little and look at the larger trend line, I think it shows progress vs last year to the point where I am not in panic mode about the defense. We don't have to tear it down the studs and start over.

Now, in fairness to Pete, we seem to be heavily targeted for penalties, more than any other team. Part of that is a lack if discipline, to be sure, but also I think the refs are looking for it with us.

Pete's teams are just going to get flagged a lot is the only conclusion I can draw on that after him being here 14 seasons. It's just the cost of doing business with him as the coach, sort of like "holding on to the ball too long" with Russ.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Yeah. I would imagine the QB is almost always a leader in penalties on teams.

Actually no, they don't. In fact looking Geno was the only QB in the top 5 and think there was only one QB (other than Geno) in top 10 in penalties for a team.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html

 

[HaroldSeattle]

2013 Seahawks lead the league in penalties, but it worked out OK.

 

[flyerhawk]

Actually no, they don't. In fact looking Geno was the only QB in the top 5 and think there was only one QB (other than Geno) in top 10 in penalties for a team.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html

Fair enough. Those intentional grounding calls are what separate him.

 

[JMR]

Fair enough. Those intentional grounding calls are what separate him.

Speaking of intentional grounding, I was watching one of the games yesterday (Texas I think), and there was a play where the WR zigged when the QB thought he was gonna zag, threw it to a wide open area with no receiver in sight. QB was not flagged for grounding, but it reminded me of that insane call on Geno earlier in the year when he did the same thing.

 

[flyerhawk]

Speaking of intentional grounding, I was watching one of the games yesterday (Texas I think), and there was a play where the WR zigged when the QB thought he was gonna zag, threw it to a wide open area with no receiver in sight. QB was not flagged for grounding, but it reminded me of that insane call on Geno earlier in the year when he did the same thing.

Yeah that one was one of the more ridiculous calls against us all season.

 

[MrS]

Speaking of intentional grounding, I was watching one of the games yesterday (Texas I think), and there was a play where the WR zigged when the QB thought he was gonna zag, threw it to a wide open area with no receiver in sight. QB was not flagged for grounding, but it reminded me of that insane call on Geno earlier in the year when he did the same thing.

is that different than the one where the defense was offside and unabated to the QB so he threw it away and got called for it?

 

[flyerhawk]

is that different than the one where the defense was offside and unabated to the QB so he threw it away and got called for it?

Yes. The play J is talking about was a normal drop back. The receiver did an out but Geno was expecting him to run a fly. So he wildly overthrew him. Geno was not facing any pressure at the time.

Not that I have a huge problem with grounding penalties when the QB is certain to be sacked.

 

[JMR]

Yes. The play J is talking about was a normal drop back. The receiver did an out but Geno was expecting him to run a fly. So he wildly overthrew him. Geno was not facing any pressure at the time.

Not that I have a huge problem with grounding penalties when the QB is certain to be sacked.

Yep, Geno wasn't facing pressure but was not on the same page with the WR to the point where he threw the ball to a wide open space. Still flagged for "intentional" grounding.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Fair enough. Those intentional grounding calls are what separate him.

Maybe but Vikings lead the league in grounding calls.

 

[flyerhawk]

Maybe but Vikings lead the league in grounding calls.

View attachment 347712

And that's why they have 2 QBs in their top 5 of penalties.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties-player.html?tm=18&yr=2023

 

[Anointed One]

Granted, one of Geno's IG calls was bogus and shouldn't had been called IG.... He was not throwing it away... He was throwing it to where he thought his WR was running to... Just a miscommunication between the two...