The '20-'21 White Sox offseason

[idseer]

MLB has on the average 6-7 extra innings games per year (of course, some of them crucial) if you pitch your closer in the 9th and it is still tied going into the 10th - your closer is very valuable. Also - depending on bullpen use or injuries - you might want to put your closer in the game in the 8th inning and have him pitch two innings. Not much use - maybe, but crucial.

Also - thanks for adding collateral arguments that had no bearing on my post (like bringing in McCann). I was the one arguing that McCann had a better season last year than Grandal. I also posted that at $10 million to the Mets the Sox should have retained him for catching and DH work (which also proved handing in giving Abreu a break at 1st with Grandal playing some 1st base).

But - what is most annoying is when you insinuate that somehow I am countering your point of view - when I am not.

i am basing my comments on my original post which deals with how much did the sox ACTUALLY improve this off season. not focused on just one particular player. i get that hendriks is more versatile than colome. that's why i brought up mccann. my 'collateral' arguments are relevant to my initial post .... which you are responding to. i am making MY argument ... not attacking yours.

 

[idseer]

I have made nothing but complimentary mentions of Vaughn's talent - if you think counting on Vaughn to play in the majors after a few games in high A ball - is a smart thing to do - I've got a Gordon Beckham I'd like to sell you. You don't rush players to the majors - without risking the possibility of ruining their careers.

You may be right about Collins - I have also suggested he hasn't been a good catcher. What he hasn't had is a consistent opportunity to play at the AAA level.

If you want to state your opinions - state them - don't rope me into your imaginary punching bag.

I happen to like your opinions - your knowledge of the Sox history and the game.

i fail to see how my saying vaughn is better than you think he is makes you some kind of punching bag. can i counter your thinking he may not be ready? i think i can.

and i really thought it goes without saying that all these comments are ALL opinions!

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

We have to remember at this point, there's addition by addition and addition by subtraction. Outside of losing McCann, the Sox really don't have much in the way of subtraction to talk about. We way more than gained with the Lynn/Dunning trade, we more than gained with the Hendriks/Colome exchange, and we more than gained (possibly) with the Eaton/Mazara exchange. I'd say we're on the plus side of the gain/loss situation. Can't say the same with the Twins or the Whatevers. While it's still early and things can still change, the losses to date have impacted their fortunes significantly more than the gains. So that in itself is a big gain for the Good Guys.

LSD logic at its finest

 

[Mingo]

i fail to see how my saying vaughn is better than you think he is makes you some kind of punching bag. can i counter your thinking he may not be ready? i think i can.

and i really thought it goes without saying that all these comments are ALL opinions!

Are you actually claiming to know what I think? All you could possibly know is what I have posted and I have had nary a negative word about Vaughn.

 

[Mingo]

i am basing my comments on my original post which deals with how much did the sox ACTUALLY improve this off season. not focused on just one particular player. i get that hendriks is more versatile than colome. that's why i brought up mccann. my 'collateral' arguments are relevant to my initial post .... which you are responding to. i am making MY argument ... not attacking yours.

Not every post is a response to your thoughts - no matter how much you want to believe that.

 

[idseer]

We have to remember at this point, there's addition by addition and addition by subtraction. Outside of losing McCann, the Sox really don't have much in the way of subtraction to talk about. We way more than gained with the Lynn/Dunning trade, we more than gained with the Hendriks/Colome exchange, and we more than gained (possibly) with the Eaton/Mazara exchange. I'd say we're on the plus side of the gain/loss situation. Can't say the same with the Twins or the Whatevers. While it's still early and things can still change, the losses to date have impacted their fortunes significantly more than the gains. So that in itself is a big gain for the Good Guys.

LSD logic at its finest

i agree. and i have all along. i was merely trying to temper our expectations a little. i was basically blueprinting the changes so far. this wouldn't be the first time we've gone into a season thinking we'd be much better and then failing. i still feel we made one change worth commenting about and that's lynn, the rest is all within the margin of error either way.
do i feel good about singing hendriks? you bet! because i wasn't convinced we'd get colome back. it could have been a real negative.

 

[idseer]

Are you actually claiming to know what I think? All you could possibly know is what I have posted and I have had nary a negative word about Vaughn.

say what? what you said is " Vaughn has not played above high A ball - so counting on him to DH is rushing him." i ASSUME that's what you think! MY opinion is that it won't be rushing him. I think he is ready. why the argument here?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

i agree. and i have all along. i was merely trying to temper our expectations a little. i was basically blueprinting the changes so far. this wouldn't be the first time we've gone into a season thinking we'd be much better and then failing. i still feel we made one change worth commenting about and that's lynn, the rest is all within the margin of error either way.
do i feel good about singing hendriks? you bet! because i wasn't convinced we'd get colome back. it could have been a real negative.

You're not the only one who has sought to temper our expectations. I really like what we've done so far, but I'm not close to singing World Series here we come!!. Hell, even if we pick up another starter, a proven backup catcher and proven DH/OF, I'd still remain cautious. I would expect us to be right up there as the preseason darlings to at least get to the big show, but I'd still temper it with caution.

 

[Mingo]

say what? what you said is " Vaughn has not played above high A ball - so counting on him to DH is rushing him." i ASSUME that's what you think! MY opinion is that it won't be rushing min. I think he is ready. why the argument here?

As long as you understand you have an extreme minority position - which is why they have minor league teams. It would be a big surprise if the Sox didn't think he needed more minor league play instead of putting him in at DH from the get go.

But - okay - now I do get why you said - Vaughn was better than I think.

 

[idseer]

As long as you understand you have an extreme minority position - which is why they have minor league teams.

i've always understood that. i think everyone here KNOWS that.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

say what? what you said is " Vaughn has not played above high A ball - so counting on him to DH is rushing him." i ASSUME that's what you think! MY opinion is that it won't be rushing him. I think he is ready. why the argument here?

I think you just answered your own question id. Mingo feels that Vaughn is not ready yet due to his lack of pro ball. You feel he is ready. There's your "argument", altho I'd just state it as a difference of opinion. BTW, I happen to agree with Mingo on this issue. I'm not comfortable counting on Vaughn as our primary DH this season. I might change my tune a bit if he really kills it in ST. But it would have to be a monster of a ST.

 

[Mingo]

i've always understood that. i think everyone here KNOWS that.

LOL - Okay - sorry for the blasting. As you know it is not my usual posting posture.

 

[Mingo]

I think you just answered your own question id. Mingo feels that Vaughn is not ready yet due to his lack of pro ball. You feel he is ready. There's your "argument", altho I'd just state it as a difference of opinion. BTW, I happen to agree with Mingo on this issue. I'm not comfortable counting on Vaughn as our primary DH this season. I might change my tune a bit if he really kills it in ST. But it would have to be a monster of a ST.

LSD - if you notice - my post was based on what the Sox think - not what I think - I was thinking like White Sox management - and trying to be predictive as to what THEY would do.

 

[idseer]

You're not the only one who has sought to temper our expectations. I really like what we've done so far, but I'm not close to singing World Series here we come!!. Hell, even if we pick up another starter, a proven backup catcher and proven DH/OF, I'd still remain cautious. I would expect us to be right up there as the preseason darlings to at least get to the big show, but I'd still temper it with caution.

so much depends on the expected progress of of our kids. i include giolito in that. i think we all expect gio, anderson, robert, moncada, madrigal, and eloy to keep getting better (which we all hope they do). that's a lot to rely on.

 

[idseer]

LOL - Okay - sorry for the blasting. As you know it is not my usual posting posture.

i know that.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

LSD - if you notice - my post was based on what the Sox think - not what I think - I was thinking like White Sox management - and trying to be predictive as to what THEY would do.

Sorry, I thought that was also your take as well. Actually, I'm not sure if the Sox brass feel that way. If they don't sign a bonified DH/OF by the time the season starts, then they very well may be thinking along iddy's line - that Vaughn is ready.

 

[idseer]

I think you just answered your own question id. Mingo feels that Vaughn is not ready yet due to his lack of pro ball. You feel he is ready. There's your "argument", altho I'd just state it as a difference of opinion. BTW, I happen to agree with Mingo on this issue. I'm not comfortable counting on Vaughn as our primary DH this season. I might change my tune a bit if he really kills it in ST. But it would have to be a monster of a ST.

i thought it WAS stated as a difference of opinion. if i come off as suggesting you're wrong and i'm right it is strictly unintentional.
from everything i've read about him, from scouts to players, i'll be disappointed if he isn't ready to step right in.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

so much depends on the expected progress of of our kids. i include giolito in that. i think we all expect gio, anderson, robert, moncada, madrigal, and eloy to keep getting better (which we all hope they do). that's a lot to rely on.

Yes it is. I'm a bit more confident that we can expect solid performances from guys like Gio, Anderson, and Eloy, as they've now done it two years in a row. ANY player can regress from season to season, but when guys like these have proven themselves in consecutive years, I like their chances to pretty much maintain the status quo.

I don't see how Robert could do any worse.

Madrigal won't hit .340 for a full season, but his type of play dictates that we shouldn't see much of a floor.

That leaves the $64k question as to how Moncada will faire in '21. Will he be the '19 or the '20 version? I'm counting on the issues he had related to the covid that contributed to a poor hitting season. So I see an upswing in his performance this year.

 

[Jiddy]

IMO, and as I’ve always harped on...It’s not just about us. Even if we’ve only marginally improved with just the Lynn move (a HUGE need imo...so it wasn’t just helpful but absolutely necessary), it isn’t just about that.

A good deal of our direct playoff competitive competition in the AL has gone sideways or down on paper. Jesus, if we actually pulled Cruz from the Twins....

And the Red Sox are in the sh*tter...Any time a that is occurring for a big payroll team it’s good for us.

Yankees are a problem. But they’ll almost always be a problem so it is what it is.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

IMO, and as I’ve always harped on...It’s not just about us. Even if we’ve only marginally improved with just the Lynn move (a HUGE need imo...so it wasn’t just helpful but absolutely necessary), it isn’t just about that.

A good deal of our direct playoff competitive competition in the AL has gone sideways or down on paper. Jesus, if we actually pulled Cruz from the Twins....

And the Red Sox are in the sh*tter...Any time a that is occurring for a big payroll team it’s good for us.

Yankees are a problem. But they’ll almost always be a problem so it is what it is.

One AL team I would keep an eye out for are the Blue Jays. They are being very aggressive this offseason and were already a playoff team before busting any moves. I'd rank them at this moment the #2 team in the East and closing in fast on the Yankees for the top spot.