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The '20-'21 White Sox offseason

Jiddy

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He wasn't on my wish list, but if we had signed him, I wouldn't have thrown a hissy fit over it.

We’re good enough to get to the dance. At this point I’d rather they go after a pitcher that adds that over the top playoff oomph if anything. High upside potential even if a risk and/or expensive.
 

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We’re good enough to get to the dance. At this point I’d rather they go after a pitcher that adds that over the top playoff oomph if anything. High upside potential even if a risk and/or expensive.
Outside of Bauer, who we all know the Sox aren't going to sign, there really isn't a high impact FA pitcher out there. Tanaka's probably the most consistent and has a decent track record, but reports keep suggesting he's heading back to the mother land. As far as potential trades are concerned, if the Reds were to dangle Castillo out there again (but then NOT pull him back), I'd definitely like to see what it would take to land him, which I'm guessing is a lot. As always, I trust Hahn will not trade any of the untouchables, Vaughn, Kopech, Crochet, and Kelley.
 

Mingo

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Hector Gomez - with deep connections in the Dominican Republic is hinting Nelson Cruz to the Sox. Last year he was wrong about Marcel Ozuna to the Sox, but right about Encarnacion to the Sox.

Cruz would have a better shot at a Ring with the Sox than with the Twins - plus have better commercial opportunities in Chicago. Obviously, the Sox would like to subtract him from the Twins and add him to the Sox as a killer for Divisional positioning.

My guess is he can probably be had for Encarnacion money - 1 year $12 million.
 

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Hector Gomez - with deep connections in the Dominican Republic is hinting Nelson Cruz to the Sox. Last year he was wrong about Marcel Ozuna to the Sox, but right about Encarnacion to the Sox.

Cruz would have a better shot at a Ring with the Sox than with the Twins - plus have better commercial opportunities in Chicago. Obviously, the Sox would like to subtract him from the Twins and add him to the Sox as a killer for Divisional positioning.

My guess is he can probably be had for Encarnacion money - 1 year $12 million.
I've been hoping this offseason for the Sox to find a 1-2 year LH bat............but give me RH hitter Nelson Cruz any day of the week and twice on Sunday - make that three times!!

But the big sticking point with the Twins unable to sign Cruz has been a 2nd year, which apparently he insists on getting. I'm wondering if the Sox could pull a Hendriks here and give him a similar deal for two years, as in the first year guaranteed at say that $12m number you suggested. Then the 2nd year would be guaranteed for the same amount as an option......or the Sox spread it out over a period of time, again like the Hendriks deal.
 

Jiddy

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Hector Gomez - with deep connections in the Dominican Republic is hinting Nelson Cruz to the Sox. Last year he was wrong about Marcel Ozuna to the Sox, but right about Encarnacion to the Sox.

Cruz would have a better shot at a Ring with the Sox than with the Twins - plus have better commercial opportunities in Chicago. Obviously, the Sox would like to subtract him from the Twins and add him to the Sox as a killer for Divisional positioning.

My guess is he can probably be had for Encarnacion money - 1 year $12 million.


Intriguing. I never really even considered him tbh because I was more focused on pitching...but we have spot for him at DH and he's still pretty good for an oldie. I mean, could he possibly do worse than Encarnacion? I don't even think it's possible. (famous last words)
 

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Intriguing. I never really even considered him tbh because I was more focused on pitching...but we have spot for him at DH and he's still pretty good for an oldie. I mean, could he possibly do worse than Encarnacion? I don't even think it's possible. (famous last words)
He would be a double addition, as in adding his bat to our already impressive lineup, as well as addition by subtraction, as in he's no longer beating the crap out of our pitchers while playing for our arch rivals. Which is also the same way I feel about Rosario.
 

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I really like this article:


Actually, I don't like it or I shouldn't, because it explains how the Sox are presently in position to really stick a dagger in the Central and maybe the rest of the league as well, but aren't doing it. Sometimes the truth hurts. There's still plenty of offseason left, but I'd like to see the Good Guys take the next step while it's there for the taking. A lot of high end FA talent remains unsigned, let's ink at least one or two of them.
 

Mingo

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I really like this article:


Actually, I don't like it or I shouldn't, because it explains how the Sox are presently in position to really stick a dagger in the Central and maybe the rest of the league as well, but aren't doing it. Sometimes the truth hurts. There's still plenty of offseason left, but I'd like to see the Good Guys take the next step while it's there for the taking. A lot of high end FA talent remains unsigned, let's ink at least one or two of them.
Even if - last year's total annualized team salary is the goal - the Sox still have $12 million to spend on FA's.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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Even if - last year's total annualized team salary is the goal - the Sox still have $12 million to spend on FA's.
That should net us at least one Nelson Cruz or Eddie Rosario, maybe splurge just a bit beyond this with signing one of the remaining FA starters out there or another experienced BP guy. The beauty about signing one of those two former Twins tho is if they set up the contract correctly, if need be, the Sox can buyout the 2nd year and get that contract off the books.
 

idseer

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I really like this article:


Actually, I don't like it or I shouldn't, because it explains how the Sox are presently in position to really stick a dagger in the Central and maybe the rest of the league as well, but aren't doing it. Sometimes the truth hurts. There's still plenty of offseason left, but I'd like to see the Good Guys take the next step while it's there for the taking. A lot of high end FA talent remains unsigned, let's ink at least one or two of them.
interesting that this article agrees with my previous post in the 'random thoughts' thread. have they really gotten that much better?
 

Lake Shore Drive

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interesting that this article agrees with my previous post. have they really gotten that much better?
It kinda does, kinda doesn't agree with your previous assessment. The article isn't suggesting that the Sox haven't improved. In fact, it points out that we've taken concrete steps to get better while the rest of the division has primarily remained stagnant, altho I've said in other posts that I do think the Royals have so far been the other Central club to at least make an effort to improve.

But where it does fall in line with your take is we could be doing more and so far up to this point, we haven't done enough. On this, I completely agree. I LOVE the Lynn trade, I really really really LIKE the Hendriks signing, and I'm a bit "yeah ok" with the signing of Eaton. IF he's healthy for the full season and that's a BIG IF, he does give bring added value to the RF position, along with a much needed LH bat - certainly a cut above what Mazara gave us this last year. But all in all, we can and should be doing even better. This is our chance to step on the throats of all 4 Central rivals and catch up to or pass the powers that be in the other divisions to boot.
 

idseer

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It kinda does, kinda doesn't agree with your previous assessment. The article isn't suggesting that the Sox haven't improved. In fact, it points out that we've taken concrete steps to get better while the rest of the division has primarily remained stagnant, altho I've said in other posts that I do think the Royals have so far been the other Central club to at least make an effort to improve.

But where it does fall in line with your take is we could be doing more and so far up to this point, we haven't done enough. On this, I completely agree. I LOVE the Lynn trade, I really really really LIKE the Hendriks signing, and I'm a bit "yeah ok" with the signing of Eaton. IF he's healthy for the full season and that's a BIG IF, he does give bring added value to the RF position, along with a much needed LH bat - certainly a cut above what Mazara gave us this last year. But all in all, we can and should be doing even better. This is our chance to step on the throats of all 4 Central rivals and catch up to or pass the powers that be in the other divisions to boot.
i never suggested the sox haven't improved.
i also liked the hendriks signing ... but that wasn't an improvement. we exchanged one excellent closer for another.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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i never suggested the sox haven't improved.
i also liked the hendriks signing ... but that wasn't an improvement. we exchanged one excellent closer for another.
I think it was an improvement, even tho being what we did do turned out to be an exchange, so the improvement might not be all that measurable. But I'll take Hendriks over Colome any time. Let's summarize:

*Lynn vs Dunning - major improvement
*Hendriks vs Colome - improvement, even if only slight
*Eaton vs Mazara - TBD. If Eaton plays a relatively full season, big improvement

Add 'em up and I'd say the Sox have improved themselves. But again, they shouldn't stop with just this.
 

Mingo

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Hendriks pitched 48 pitches in game two against the Sox - then came on the next day and struck out the side. Colome could not have done that. The fact that Hendriks is able to go past one inning is invaluable - again Colome did not show two inning availability his entire White Sox career. Hendriks is only a slight upgrade only if you are viewing through a one inning portal.
 

Mingo

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The probability of three more roster additions ranked in order of team needs:

1) A 2nd Catcher - Collins figures here too - he is not ready defensively - he has not shown the bat strength, but needs to play regularly, or write him off as a prospect. However - if Collins has a successful half year in AAA - they can drop the 2nd catcher and bring him up to the majors.
2) DH help - I can't see the Sox counting on Collins to DH and be effective - he can play some 1st base and relieve Abreu. Also, Vaughn has not played above high A ball - so counting on him to DH is rushing him.
3) SP help - Kopech needs to go pitch outside the MLB level and ramp up his arm strength and prove his worth. Lopez can't be counted upon based on his history - that leaves Cease - who I think would be a good 5th starter material - easily swapped out for Lopez or Kopech if they prove ready. The only reason I rank this as the 3rd priority is that the Sox probably think their investment in Katz as a pitching coach ought to pay dividends.

The Sox should get one of the many FA catchers milling around who can play D and work with the pitchers and a DH who can replace the offense this 2nd catcher will not bring to his game. They should also invest in a 4th starter - some reclamation type (you know the usual Sox pitcher signing) to start the season and hope they bought a winning lottery ticket.

Now - if Kopech or Lopez are lights out and Collins plays reasonably well, or even if Vaughn mashes - these guys can be brought up as injury replacements or position failure rescuers.
 

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Hendriks pitched 48 pitches in game two against the Sox - then came on the next day and struck out the side. Colome could not have done that. The fact that Hendriks is able to go past one inning is invaluable - again Colome did not show two inning availability his entire White Sox career. Hendriks is only a slight upgrade only if you are viewing through a one inning portal.
ok, let's say the 'more than on inning' thing is a small improvement (and btw i don't expect to see that much of that kind of use, do you?). i'd suggest the fact we weakened ourselves by losing mccann more than makes up for that. so it's still a wash in my mind. i still say the only improvement we made was lynn (and you know i've been claiming all along that it was the kind of improvement we needed the most) but that was it! all the other improvement depends on the players we already have. eaton and engel in right is a complete wait and see. i am glad we have depth there if robert or eloy goes down.
 

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The probability of three more roster additions ranked in order of team needs:

1) A 2nd Catcher - Collins figures here too - he is not ready defensively - he has not shown the bat strength, but needs to play regularly, or write him off as a prospect. However - if Collins has a successful half year in AAA - they can drop the 2nd catcher and bring him up to the majors.
2) DH help - I can't see the Sox counting on Collins to DH and be effective - he can play some 1st base and relieve Abreu. Also, Vaughn has not played above high A ball - so counting on him to DH is rushing him.
3) SP help - Kopech needs to go pitch outside the MLB level and ramp up his arm strength and prove his worth. Lopez can't be counted upon based on his history - that leaves Cease - who I think would be a good 5th starter material - easily swapped out for Lopez or Kopech if they prove ready. The only reason I rank this as the 3rd priority is that the Sox probably think their investment in Katz as a pitching coach ought to pay dividends.

The Sox should get one of the many FA catchers milling around who can play D and work with the pitchers and a DH who can replace the offense this 2nd catcher will not bring to his game. They should also invest in a 4th starter - some reclamation type (you know the usual Sox pitcher signing) to start the season and hope they bought a winning lottery ticket.

Now - if Kopech or Lopez are lights out and Collins plays reasonably well, or even if Vaughn mashes - these guys can be brought up as injury replacements or position failure rescuers.
1. mark my words ... collins will never, ever be a good catcher! the same label that was attached to him in 2017 hasn't changed one bit. he's a hack behind the plate. as a hitter he just another typical 'hit's the ball a long way' no field, no hit player. do not count on collins for anything!
2. vaughn is better than you think he is.
3. i wouldn't mind another dependable cheap starter but lopez should be traded asap. i've seen all i want to see of him.

trade lopez for narvaez and some decent reliever.
 

Mingo

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ok, let's say the 'more than on inning' thing is a small improvement (ct to and btw i don't expesee that much of that kind of use, do you?). i'd suggest the fact we weakened ourselves by losing mccann more than makes up for that. so it's still a wash in my mind. i still say the only improvement we made was lynn (and you know i've been claiming all along that it was the kind of improvement we needed the most) but that was it! all the other improvement depends on the players we already have. eaton and engel in right is a complete wait and see. i am glad we have depth there if robert or eloy goes down.
MLB has on the average 6-7 extra innings games per year (of course, some of them crucial) if you pitch your closer in the 9th and it is still tied going into the 10th - your closer is very valuable. Also - depending on bullpen use or injuries - you might want to put your closer in the game in the 8th inning and have him pitch two innings. Not much use - maybe, but crucial.

Also - thanks for adding collateral arguments that had no bearing on my post (like bringing in McCann). I was the one arguing that McCann had a better season last year than Grandal. I also posted that at $10 million to the Mets the Sox should have retained him for catching and DH work (which also proved handing in giving Abreu a break at 1st with Grandal playing some 1st base).

But - what is most annoying is when you insinuate that somehow I am countering your point of view - when I am not.
 

Mingo

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1. mark my words ... collins will never, ever be a good catcher! the same label that was attached to him in 2017 hasn't changed one bit. he's a hack behind the plate. as a hitter he just another typical 'hit's the ball a long way' no field, no hit player. do not count on collins for anything!
2. vaughn is better than you think he is.
3. i wouldn't mind another dependable cheap starter but lopez should be traded asap. i've seen all i want to see of him.

trade lopez for narvaez and some decent reliever.
I have made nothing but complimentary mentions of Vaughn's talent - if you think counting on Vaughn to play in the majors after a few games in high A ball - is a smart thing to do - I've got a Gordon Beckham I'd like to sell you. You don't rush players to the majors - without risking the possibility of ruining their careers.

You may be right about Collins - I have also suggested he hasn't been a good catcher. What he hasn't had is a consistent opportunity to play at the AAA level.

If you want to state your opinions - state them - don't rope me into your imaginary punching bag.

I happen to like your opinions - your knowledge of the Sox history and the game.
 
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