Surprised I haven't seen this one discussed

[SJ76]

Mark Jackson is one that I remember who always used to take him into the post and work him. AI was a liability at the defensive end. I watched almost every game he played as a Sixer. He found a way to make contributions at that end to try and offset what he would give up and that came in using his anticipation and speed to gamble and get into passing lanes. In regular season ball, you’ll get your fair share of lazy passes. Those get less frequent in the playoffs. Mark Jackson and others would back him down and shoot over him. Iverson’s defensive mind set became I might as well gamble on the pass lanes cause if I get posted it’s an average of 1.5 points per possession.

I love AI but he was a liability defensively. Like every stat, steals needs context and it’s only one piece of the puzzle.

Steals certainly doesn’t tell the whole story for sure but it is part of defense.

Mark Jackson abused alot of smaller guards. I’m tryna think of more bigger guards that gave AI a hard time.
Good thing was he was quick and did have Snow to help. But no way he stops bigger guards backing him down in the post.

 

[tlance]

Steals certainly doesn’t tell the whole story for sure but it is part of defense.

Mark Jackson abused alot of smaller guards. I’m tryna think of more bigger guards that gave AI a hard time.
Good thing was he was quick and did have Snow to help. But no way he stops bigger guards backing him down in the post.

That is just it.

Most guards were bigger than AI.

He weighed a buck 50 dripping wet.

Wasn’t his fault, but he was a mediocre to bad NBA defender.

 

[fightinfunbags]

That is just it.

Most guards were bigger than AI.

He weighed a buck 50 dripping wet.

Wasn’t his fault, but he was a mediocre to bad NBA defender.

In playoff basketball, it’s especially exploitable.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

Paxson and BJ?

They are catch and shoot role players.

AI didn’t defend the other teams top guards. Snow did that.

You know why?

The other AI was a god at adjustments and allowed for a ton of those steal attempts.

 

[SJ76]

That is just it.

Most guards were bigger than AI.

He weighed a buck 50 dripping wet.

Wasn’t his fault, but he was a mediocre to bad NBA defender.

Mediocre ok. Bad naahhh not with that quickness and anticipation. I’d take him all day

Who else exposed him? We’ve got 1 guy so far

 

[tlance]

Mediocre ok. Bad naahhh not with that quickness and anticipation. I’d take him all day

Who else exposed him? We’ve got 1 guy so far

I am sure plenty did. Despite the fact that the 6ers hid him and he played in an era before teams heavily utilized forced switches on pick and role plays.

Of course advanced defensive stats aren’t perfect, but they tell a much better story than looking at blocks, steals and rebounds.

-.2 DBPM and 106 defense rating is well below average.

He was adequate early in his career, but more like James Harden the second half.

 

[SJ76]

I am sure plenty did. Despite the fact that the 6ers hid him and he played in an era before teams heavily utilized forced switches on pick and role plays.

Of course advanced defensive stats aren’t perfect, but they tell a much better story than looking at blocks, steals and rebounds.

-.2 DBPM and 106 defense rating is well below average.

He was adequate early in his career, but more like James Harden the second half.

It’s the Same reason I wouldn’t say Steph Curry is a bad defender especially early in his career when he was smaller. Instincts and IQ still can make plays. Not to mention there were alot more smaller PGs back in his day

What was Stocktons rating?

 

[Mecca]

Reggie Miller is so overrated guys

Very good player, don’t get me wrong. Clutchest of clutch shooters. He would be a great #2 Klay style in today’s NBA.

But not anywhere close to top 5 never to win a ring.

So many great players fell short of that.

Dude is a heart pick for me.

UCLA, Cali Kid, huge sack in big moments.

For me, his greatest accomplishment was to NOT wilt under the pressure of being Cheryl’s little brother.

Maybe it’s because I got to see it firsthand.

But, her shadow was immense.

It’s bad enough to be compared to a HoF parent.

Imagine getting your ass handed to you by your sister on the regular.

….and up until she got hurt in College, the ass whoopings were continuous.

He could not beat her.

 

[broncosmitty]

Not really.

He deserves to be a HOF player because of those moments.

But he didn’t drag any teams anywhere.

He was the top scorer (not necessarily the best player) on some 2004 Piston style teams with a lot of quality pieces.

Speaking of those 04 Pistons…

If Reggie attempts to dunk, instead of slowly going for the layup in the final 20 seconds of Game 2 of the ECF, who knows.

Would’ve tied the game, an Indiana win would’ve given the Pacers a 2-0 lead.

The Lakers were ready to meltdown no matter who they faced in the finals. Not to discredit what Detroit did…

 

[broncosmitty]

Malone's a pedo? I had no idea.

He knocked up a 13 year old when he was 20.

Just became public this winter I think.

 

[tlance]

It’s the Same reason I wouldn’t say Steph Curry is a bad defender especially early in his career when he was smaller. Instincts and IQ still can make plays. Not to mention there were alot more smaller PGs back in his day

What was Stocktons rating?

Stockton was 104 D rating, but 1.9 in DBPM.

No 1 stat tells the whole story.

I am good with the Steph comparison in terms of defense impact, although I think they get there in different ways.

My only point from the start is that you were giving AI way too much credit defensively.

 

[shopson67]

Do some research here man.

You are wrong.

AI had below average advanced defensive stats pretty much across the board.

He got steals, but allowed a lot of easy buckets too.

That doesn’t make someone a good defender overall.

For some of us, research isn't needed. We watched him play. AI was a disruptor offensively and defensively. More offensive minded for sure, but you couldn't take him for granted defensively. Size limitations come into play, but that comes with a boost in speed/quickness.

 

[tlance]

For some of us, research isn't needed. We watched him play. AI was a disruptor offensively and defensively. More offensive minded for sure, but you couldn't take him for granted defensively. Size limitations come into play, but that comes with a boost in speed/quickness.

I watched him play too.

He got steals. Was often out of position because he gambled a lot.

Was not a good defender overall.

 

[shopson67]

He knocked up a 13 year old when he was 20.

Just became public this winter I think.

A different time and place, but that's still too young. He called her his girlfriend, so he had to know? If it had been a fling at a college party, maybe he wouldn't have known.

 

[trojanfan12]

Dude is a heart pick for me.

UCLA, Cali Kid, huge sack in big moments.

For me, his greatest accomplishment was to NOT wilt under the pressure of being Cheryl’s little brother.

Maybe it’s because I got to see it firsthand.

But, her shadow was immense.

It’s bad enough to be compared to a HoF parent.

Imagine getting your ass handed to you by your sister on the regular.

….and up until she got hurt in College, the ass whoopings were continuous.

He could not beat her.

I heard Reggie tell a funny story from when they were in high school. After their games, they used to like to see who scored the most points. Cheryl usually had more points.

There was a game where Reggie scored something like 50 or 60 points. He thought sure he had her and was all excited about how he was going to smack talk her.

That turned out to be the night Cheryl scored 100. lol

 

[SJ76]

Stockton was 104 D rating, but 1.9 in DBPM.

No 1 stat tells the whole story.

I am good with the Steph comparison in terms of defense impact, although I think they get there in different ways.

My only point from the start is that you were giving AI way too much credit defensively.

Not really. The man is top 10 all time in steals per game. I didn’t make that up

 

[SJ76]

For some of us, research isn't needed. We watched him play. AI was a disruptor offensively and defensively. More offensive minded for sure, but you couldn't take him for granted defensively. Size limitations come into play, but that comes with a boost in speed/quickness.

Boom

 

[fightinfunbags]

Not really. The man is top 10 all time in steals per game. I didn’t make that up

With this comment, we’re right back where we were. Statistical analysis is always going to be limited. This is even more so the case when analyzing the defense played in basketball. Anyone who regularly watched AI would not consider his defense a plus. They wouldn’t even consider it to be average. It was a liability throughout his career. I love the guy. He brought me great sports joy and was fun to watch. But I’m just being honest. He was a subpar defensive player.

 

[SJ76]

With this comment, we’re right back where we were. Statistical analysis is always going to be limited. This is even more so the case when analyzing the defense played in basketball. Anyone who regularly watched AI would not consider his defense a plus. They wouldn’t even consider it to be average. It was a liability throughout his career. I love the guy. He brought me great sports joy and was fun to watch. But I’m just being honest. He was a subpar defensive player.

Well no one is saying his defensive was really good and I’m saying it wasn’t bad. Steals is a part of defense which obviously he was good at and he was usually guarding another smaller guard.

The times he was exposed we’ve established Mark Jackson but who else? Ron Harper in Cleveland? Tim Hardaway in Miami? He was tough to guard but he wasn’t really backing anyone down into the paint. Penny?

 

[fightinfunbags]

Well no one is saying his defensive was really good and I’m saying it wasn’t bad. Steals is a part of defense which obviously he was good at and he was usually guarding another smaller guard.

The times he was exposed we’ve established Mark Jackson but who else? Ron Harper in Cleveland? Tim Hardaway in Miami? He was tough to guard but he wasn’t really backing anyone down into the paint. Penny?

Just take every Sixers playoff series that he competed in. Sometimes the Sixers had enough to overcome it. Other years they didn’t. When a game is one of 82, you weren’t going to see him get attacked every night. However, put him in a playoff series when you get that familiarity with the opponent and intricate game plans designed to hunt weaknesses and he was Where’s Waldo out there for the offense.