Surprised I haven't seen this one discussed

[SJ76]

Just take every Sixers playoff series that he competed in. Sometimes the Sixers had enough to overcome it. Other years they didn’t. When a game is one of 82, you weren’t going to see him get attacked every night. However, put him in a playoff series when you get that familiarity with the opponent and intricate game plans designed to hunt weaknesses and he was Where’s Waldo out there for the offense.

AI was never on a super team especially offensively and I can’t even think if he had a legit Robin. Don’t think he did. So the 76ers then had holes besides AI on D.

Like I said, a lot of smaller guards back then he could hang with on D. Yeah maybe a few that over powered him. Chauncey would have been one

 

[Shanemansj13]

it sounded like you were going to make one of my jokes where I have said that my top five are this and the first four are in order. I guess technically that could mean that the fifth could be the first or the last or could be inserted anywhere I suppose as long as those four respectively don’t change.

I just meant the top 4 are clear and there is a clear order, imo. Like I said to Sushi, I forgot about Gervin. I would actually put him at 5. After that change, imo a clear top 5 and order

 

[shopson67]

AI was never on a super team especially offensively and I can’t even think if he had a legit Robin. Don’t think he did. So the 76ers then had holes besides AI on D.

Like I said, a lot of smaller guards back then he could hang with on D. Yeah maybe a few that over powered him. Chauncey would have been one

Iguodala

 

[trojanfan12]

Well no one is saying his defensive was really good and I’m saying it wasn’t bad. Steals is a part of defense which obviously he was good at and he was usually guarding another smaller guard.

The times he was exposed we’ve established Mark Jackson but who else? Ron Harper in Cleveland? Tim Hardaway in Miami? He was tough to guard but he wasn’t really backing anyone down into the paint. Penny?

You are overvaluing steals, imo.

Steals are basically the "eye candy" of defensive stats.

Turn on SportsCenter and you'd see highlights of him picking someone's pocket or stepping into passing lanes to steal the ball and score on the other end.

What you don't see are the several other times a game where the guy he was covering scored or assisted on a score because AI gambled and got caught out of position.

He averaged 2.2 steals per game and averaged 2.8 steals per game at his peak in '01-'02. If those steals led to 4-6 points per game for his team, but he gave up 8-10 points a game because he was out of position or was simply overpowered by a bigger player...that's a defensive net negative.

 

[SJ76]

Iguodala

He wasn’t on the 2001 76ers that made the finals and wasn’t with AI until his 8th/9th year in the league.

 

[SJ76]

You are overvaluing steals, imo.

Steals are basically the "eye candy" of defensive stats.

Turn on SportsCenter and you'd see highlights of him picking someone's pocket or stepping into passing lanes to steal the ball and score on the other end.

What you don't see are the several other times a game where the guy he was covering scored or assisted on a score because AI gambled and got caught out of position.

He averaged 2.2 steals per game and averaged 2.8 steals per game at his peak in '01-'02. If those steals led to 4-6 points per game for his team, but he gave up 8-10 points a game because he was out of position or was simply overpowered by a bigger player...that's a defensive net negative.

Taking the ball from the offense is a big deal as well as a threat. Certainly not going to under value this at all

Someone is quick and can take the ball from you is no big deal? That’s ball pressure and a very big deal. Or are we just assuming all of AIs steals were in the passing lane


Cmon y’all

 

[shopson67]

He wasn’t on the 2001 76ers that made the finals and wasn’t with AI until his 8th/9th year in the league.

Kukoc, Mutombo, Ollie, Snow, Ty Hill, McKie, Lynch, MacCullough, Ratliff, Buford were the ones that played more than half the season on the 2001 squad with AI.

 

[trojanfan12]

Taking the ball from the offense is a big deal as well as a threat. Certainly not going to under value this at all

Someone is quick and can take the ball from you is no big deal? That’s ball pressure and a very big deal. Or are we just assuming all of AIs steals were in the passing lane


Cmon y’all

So, you're going to completely ignore the points he gave up because he was out of position from gambling for a steal or was overpowered.

Interesting that you avoid that.

 

[SJ76]

So, you're going to completely ignore the points he gave up because he was out of position from gambling for a steal or was overpowered.

Interesting that you avoid that.

Already addressed it

He gambles like anyone with those instincts gambles. He’s just smaller but a lot of the guards back then or small as well


Are you sseiously questioning AIs ability and instincts? His teams were not offensively loaded at all if anything they were more defense focused besides AI himself

 

[SJ76]

I love the splitting of the hairs in here. The guy was not great on defense, but he wasn’t a marshmallow either.

Originally I said he’s sneaky and I’m taking him over Reggie for this list

 

[trojanfan12]

Already addressed it

He gambles like anyone with those instincts gambles. He’s just smaller but a lot of the guards back then or small as well


Are you sseiously questioning AIs ability and instincts? His teams were not offensively loaded at all if anything they were more defense focused besides AI himself

His teams weren't offensively loaded, so they had to win with defense. He didn't really help on that end because he gave up more points than he got for his team.

He was an incredible scorer and was a significant boost on the offensive end. The positives he brought offensively significantly outweighed his being a net negative on defense.

 

[tlance]

I love the splitting of the hairs in here. The guy was not great on defense, but he wasn’t a marshmallow either.

Originally I said he’s sneaky and I’m taking him over Reggie for this list

What you said was that you were taking AI over Reggie for his defense.

AI was not a better defender than Reggie Miller.

AI was orders of magnitude better offensively though.

So I agree AI is the better player. Just not for the reason you claimed.

 

[Mecca]

I heard Reggie tell a funny story from when they were in high school. After their games, they used to like to see who scored the most points. Cheryl usually had more points.

There was a game where Reggie scored something like 50 or 60 points. He thought sure he had her and was all excited about how he was going to smack talk her.

That turned out to be the night Cheryl scored 100. lol

Yes!!!!

He told that story in the Lady of Troy Documentary…..lol

I felt so sorry for him.

 

[SJ76]

What you said was that you were taking AI over Reggie for his defense.

AI was not a better defender than Reggie Miller.

AI was orders of magnitude better offensively though.

So I agree AI is the better player. Just not for the reason you claimed.

You were the one saying Reggie was overrated. Not sure how but both are what they are. Decent defenders and a lot of offense. The difference for me between the 2 is steals and AI better offensively

The fact we are taking this apart for 24 hours is funny. Its just splitting hairs man. Lol

AI nor Reggie were both great or really good defenders. Both were not bad either.

 

[SJ76]

His teams weren't offensively loaded, so they had to win with defense. He didn't really help on that end because he gave up more points than he got for his team.

He was an incredible scorer and was a significant boost on the offensive end. The positives he brought offensively significantly outweighed his being a net negative on defense.

Agreed. I am just defending that he wasn’t a bad defender. Lol

And yeah I’m a believer in steals. As guard, having any kind of ball pressure makes offense more difficult for the opposition.

AIs good teams were definitely built around defense and he didn’t have much of a Robin at all

 

[dtgold88]

Maybe it has been but I missed it...

We always do GOAT lists and whatever, compare rings won, and sometimes someone jokes about Barkley or who ever not getting a ring...got me thinking

Who are the top 5 players all time to not win a ring? Active players must be over 35

Not sure the order but gotta be something like Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Paul right? With not far off Reggie Miller and Webber and Iverson and TMac...?

Gonna only include guys I saw play as may not know whether some of those before my time got a ring or not.

I'd say Barkley, Malone and Ewing for sure. Certainly hard to argue with Stockton and CP as the other 2. Besides the ones you mentioned, the others who could maybe make a case are Wilkins and maybe Gervin, Nash and Melo?

 

[msgkings322]

Gonna only include guys I saw play as may not know whether some of those before my time got a ring or not.

I'd say Barkley, Malone and Ewing for sure. Certainly hard to argue with Stockton and CP as the other 2. Besides the ones you mentioned, the others who could maybe make a case are Wilkins and maybe Gervin, Nash and Melo?

Add Reggie Miller and that seems to be the consensus top 10 with the same top 3

 

[dtgold88]

Patrick Ewing
Adrian Dantley
Dominique Wilkins
George Gervin
Vince Carter

Forgot about Carter. Good one. I'd have thought Dantley won one in Detroit but guess I was wrong.

 

[msgkings322]

Forgot about Carter. Good one. I'd have thought Dantley won one in Detroit but guess I was wrong.

And we both forgot Iverson

 

[dtgold88]

And we both forgot Iverson

We had him.....you had Iverson in the comment to which I replied (and I said guys besides the ones you mentioned).

"Not sure the order but gotta be something like Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Paul right? With not far off Reggie Miller and Webber and Iverson and TMac...?"