NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[trojanfan12]

None of that preparation caused a dropped pass.

True. That's also part of why sometimes you just take the points. Those are momentum killers.

 

[fightinfunbags]

So you can't refute what I actually said then?

I did. It’s your opinion that it’s a coach’s job to follow the conventional wisdom established decades. It’s my opinion that a coach is tasked with molding a winner.

 

[trojanfan12]

I did. It’s your opinion that it’s a coach’s job to follow the conventional wisdom established decades. It’s my opinion that a coach is tasked with molding a winner.

Not what I said at all.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Not what I said at all.

Sure it is. You want him to do the auto move that everyone else does.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

this convo is really making me wish the Lions had won

 

[DJ Fieri]

this convo is really making me wish the Lions had won

LOL.

 

[Think McFly Think]

this convo is really making me wish the Lions had won

 

[dtgold88]

...and you would expect former Lion Orlovsky to say different?

I wonder if he supported going for 2 from the 7 yard line too....

I mean, going for a couple of those were fine. Maybe not the first one.

I think his biggest gaffe was the late run AND blowing his last TO when it failed. Also agree.....going for 2 from the 7 just screams stubborn/dumb.

 

[dtgold88]

This is the issue. Some coaches know when to look at analytics and use it in game situations where it is smart to go for it. Campbell does not do that. He just goes for it bc that is his "staple". He won him games but it also lost him games in the regular season and now in the NFCCG.

-If you have a kick to tie the game in the NFCCG and to that point you haven't score a single point in the half, you take points when you can get them.
Same thing with the one earlier in the game. San Fran kicks a FG coming out of half, Detroit has a nice drive and they can get those 3 points right back but Campbell takes the risk instead of the easy points and going up 3 scores.

The fact is some people with agree with it and some will disagree but this style of play (extremely aggressive) has never been successful in winning a SB.

BB and Reid usually weigh their options and are smart with their decisions and sometimes risky. Campbell is a loose cannon. To compare Reid went for it half the time Campbell did and had a higher 4th down conversion rate this season. That tells me he is aggressive at times but he has a nice balance and knows when to take his points.

Just bc Orlovsky agrees with his decisions doesn't mean it is fact. It's just his opinion and people listen bc he talks football on a prime network. Problem is the logic of this risky play at some point fails. Playing it safe at times we know has a great track record and wins championship-you need a balance. Campbell has no balance.

agree with a lot of this.....for sure I would have kicked to try to go up 17. The later one to tie? Think I'd have kicked there, too, but maybe he did not trust his kicker? I think too often those who oppose these choices say "you TAKE the points" when the points are not guaranteed.

As I said...I think his bigger blunder was the late run AND wasting the TO when it failed.

 

[dtgold88]

That is a bad way to look at it. It means he isn't looking at it by situation, just pea brain logic. The guy is a roided out pea brain.

It pisses me off bc the Browns had so many bad coaches for a long time and this guy is being praised like he is one of the best coaches when in reality is average. Lets see him keep up this aggressive play and see if it works. I highly doubt it.

It got Staley fired....

2021 - 9-8 - 3rd most attempts in NFL (65%) much higher than Campbell's rate
2022 - 10-7 - 6th most attempts in NFL (52%)
2023 - 5-9 - 6th most attempts in NFL (46%) good for bottom 5 %

True...I mean I think he is a decent coach but the rah rah/screaming schtick only takes you so far. Might they be as good next year? sure....but the division and conference may also improve, he might have more significant injuries (say, to a QB perhaps?), etc.

 

[dtgold88]

Disagree on this point. This is the way Doug Pederson coached. His aggression in calling the Philly Special at the end of the first half on 4th down instead of taking the auto choice of FG helped win the Eagles the Super Bowl.

That balance you speak of may come over time for Campbell. His aggression helped put a team that’s been dog shit for decades into the NFC championship game. That really can’t be argued. The players on the team have taken on the aggressive persona of their coach and it has been to the benefit of the Lions.

It’s easy to poop on shit when it doesn’t work. Data shows that Campbell’s teams had executed on 4th down all year at a high clip. You have to be who you are.

To an extent, yes you do.....and why I don't think he had to kick in every one of those situations. Especially if he didn't trust his K on kicks that were not really gimmes.

But sometimes you need to think things through and not just be aggressive or in his case stubborn. Best example for me was when he went for the 2 pointer against Dallas even when moved back to the 7. That's dumb even if it worked (just would have saved him from his dumb).

 

[dtgold88]

Staley made it to an AFC title game?

I must have missed that.

To be fair it's a little more difficult in a division with the Chiefs.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah the Staley comparisons are ridiculous. That guy went for 2 at weird times and was just off the rails.

Like when he is moved back to the 7 for the attempt and a 1 ties the game late?

 

[dtgold88]

If the players actually executed.....we might not even be talking about this.

Fair point....but pretty much true of many situations where fans are blaming the coach for failures.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, but the narrative if they miss that FG is why did the coach move away from what worked for them all season long? Why is he chickening out now? He got scared in the championship game and it cost them the game. Etc.

No doubt...often fans will just blame thew coach and not even look at the other side, execution, etc.

 

[dtgold88]

Not really. As I pointed out earlier, the Niners knew the Lions are aggressive in those situations and spent extra time preparing.

Kind of reminds me of when the Seahawks ran that pass play vs. the Patriots in the Super Bowl. With all of the criticism over that call, folks overlooked the preparation by the Patriots. They knew that was a play the Seahawks liked and had some success with. During practice, Malcolm Butler was late when they practiced that play because of how he reacted...Belichik told him "When you see that, just break hard to that spot".

I'd be confident in betting that the Niners coaches were saying similar things when preparing for the Lions 4th down package.

while I agree with a lot of what you and others have been saying not sure this really applies here as the play call worked a couple times...the player dropped the ball.

 

[dtgold88]

True. That's also part of why sometimes you just take the points. Those are momentum killers.

so should they do it because SF had an idea what the play was or do it because a player may not execute? I mean, not crazy a kicker might not execute on a near 50 yarder.

 

[fightinfunbags]

To an extent, yes you do.....and why I don't think he had to kick in every one of those situations. Especially if he didn't trust his K on kicks that were not really gimmes.

But sometimes you need to think things through and not just be aggressive or in his case stubborn. Best example for me was when he went for the 2 pointer against Dallas even when moved back to the 7. That's dumb even if it worked (just would have saved him from his dumb).

I read that Bagley is 9-20 in his career 48 yards and longer and now you put in the pressure of kicking on the road for an indoor kicker with the pressure of playoff football.

Meanwhile, on 4th and 3 or less the Lions were 15-20 this year.

The coach has made his team in his image and likeness and he knows his team.

Personally? I go for the first and kick the FG on the 2nd. But I haven’t earned one of these prestigious jobs so what I would have personally done doesn’t really matter.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Here’s the actual data on Campbell’s team.

 

[thunderc]

Here’s the actual data on Campbell’s team.

View attachment 352814

The added story to that is Badgely wont be the kicker next year.