NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[bksballer89]

The Ravens went wrong by turning the ball over in the end zone twice and committing stupid personal fouls. The game plan they chose should've resulted in a win.

They ran the ball 6 times with their backs. They had the best running offense in football

If you include Lamar scrambles they had 14 runs to 37 passes in a game they never trailed by more than 10

 

[fightinfunbags]

From a Ravens fan, horrible game plan, as bad as it gets.

They allowed the Chiefs to dictate to them through fronts. The Chiefs just had to present certain looks and the Ravens got away from run.

Ravens should be immune to that shit because of Lamar as a runner. You get an extra blocker and/or negate a defender that has to honor Lamar keep.

They got away from who they are. Defense was leaky early but recovered. If Ravens were committed to 30-35 rushes maybe this goes differently.

Ravens backs had 6 total carries. That’s not who they are.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Again, on point only because you agree with him. Taking the FG and going up a third score puts more pressure on that Niners offense and potentially changes their game plan.

Their HC has been coaching that way all season.

 

[Black Adam]

They allowed the Chiefs to dictate to them through fronts. The Chiefs just had to present certain looks and the Ravens got away from run.

Ravens should be immune to that shit because of Lamar as a runner. You get an extra blocker and/or negate a defender that has to honor Lamar keep.

They got away from who they are. Defense was leaky early but recovered. If Ravens were committed to 30-35 rushes maybe this goes differently.

Ravens backs had 6 total carries. That’s not who they are.

I think a lot of the Ravens loss can be blamed on composure...or lack thereof. These guys let the Chiefs get in their heads from the gitty-up. From some accounts they were scrapping BEFORE the game even started...

Definitely agree with you far as getting outta their "identity" so to speak, though. Just bringing up another component imho...

 

[shopson67]

They ran the ball 6 times with their backs. They had the best running offense in football

If you include Lamar scrambles they had 14 runs to 37 passes in a game they never trailed by more than 10

Sure, but without the two costly turnovers, they win the game. Winning the game is the ultimate result. They more or less had their way in the 2nd half, just couldn't capitalize on those drives.

The bratty/tough-guy behavior hurt them more than the absence of running plays IMO.

 

[shopson67]

They ran the ball 6 times with their backs. They had the best running offense in football

If you include Lamar scrambles they had 14 runs to 37 passes in a game they never trailed by more than 10

Sure, but without the two costly turnovers, they win the game. Winning the game is the ultimate result. They more or less had their way in the 2nd half, just couldn't capitalize on those drives.

The bratty/tough-guy behavior hurt them more than the absence of running plays IMO.

 

[shopson67]

I think a lot of the Ravens loss can be blamed on composure...or lack thereof. These guys let the Chiefs get in their heads from the gitty-up. From some accounts they were scrapping BEFORE the game even started...

Definitely agree with you far as getting outta their "identity" so to speak, though. Just bringing up another component imho...

That 15 yard penalty they were goaded into by Kelce was embarrassing (and really was minor enough that the refs could've let it slide). The taunting call on Flowers also just mind-numbing. At least he has the "dumb rookie" defense.

The clothesline on Mahomes was at least in the flow of play.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Data is data. This shows that Campbell’s aggression is:
1) a staple of Campbell ball
2) very successful
3) they blow away the analytics percentages that already deem going for it to be more valuable than settling for FGs.

Seemed like he just stated facts

This is the issue. Some coaches know when to look at analytics and use it in game situations where it is smart to go for it. Campbell does not do that. He just goes for it bc that is his "staple". He won him games but it also lost him games in the regular season and now in the NFCCG.

-If you have a kick to tie the game in the NFCCG and to that point you haven't score a single point in the half, you take points when you can get them.
Same thing with the one earlier in the game. San Fran kicks a FG coming out of half, Detroit has a nice drive and they can get those 3 points right back but Campbell takes the risk instead of the easy points and going up 3 scores.

The fact is some people with agree with it and some will disagree but this style of play (extremely aggressive) has never been successful in winning a SB.

BB and Reid usually weigh their options and are smart with their decisions and sometimes risky. Campbell is a loose cannon. To compare Reid went for it half the time Campbell did and had a higher 4th down conversion rate this season. That tells me he is aggressive at times but he has a nice balance and knows when to take his points.

Just bc Orlovsky agrees with his decisions doesn't mean it is fact. It's just his opinion and people listen bc he talks football on a prime network. Problem is the logic of this risky play at some point fails. Playing it safe at times we know has a great track record and wins championship-you need a balance. Campbell has no balance.

 

[thunderc]

This is the issue. Some coaches know when to look at analytics and use it in game situations where it is smart to go for it. Campbell does not do that. He just goes for it bc that is his "staple". He won him games but it also lost him games in the regular season and now in the NFCCG.

-If you have a kick to tie the game in the NFCCG and to that point you haven't score a single point in the half, you take points when you can get them.
Same thing with the one earlier in the game. San Fran kicks a FG coming out of half, Detroit has a nice drive and they can get those 3 points right back but Campbell takes the risk instead of the easy points and going up 3 scores.

The fact is some people with agree with it and some will disagree but this style of play (extremely aggressive) has never been successful in winning a SB.

BB and Reid usually weigh their options and are smart with their decisions and sometimes risky. Campbell is a loose cannon. To compare Reid went for it half the time Campbell did and had a higher 4th down conversion rate this season. That tells me he is aggressive at times but he has a nice balance and knows when to take his points.

Just bc Orlovsky agrees with his decisions doesn't mean it is fact. It's just his opinion and people listen bc he talks football on a prime network. Problem is the logic of this risky play at some point fails. Playing it safe at times we know has a great track record and wins championship-you need a balance. Campbell has no balance.

Coaches don’t get the benefit of hindsight. My guess is somewhere along the way he decided he’s not thinking about a missed fg all winter. I bet not one player on that team has an issue with what they did, it’s who they are.

 

[Black Adam]

That 15 yard penalty they were goaded into by Kelce was embarrassing (and really was minor enough that the refs could've let it slide). The taunting call on Flowers also just mind-numbing. At least he has the "dumb rookie" defense.

The clothesline on Mahomes was at least in the flow of play.

Guess you can call it chincey if you like, but there were flags in the game that showed what I was talking about...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Their HC has been coaching that way all season.

That is a bad way to look at it. It means he isn't looking at it by situation, just pea brain logic. The guy is a roided out pea brain.

It pisses me off bc the Browns had so many bad coaches for a long time and this guy is being praised like he is one of the best coaches when in reality is average. Lets see him keep up this aggressive play and see if it works. I highly doubt it.

It got Staley fired....

2021 - 9-8 - 3rd most attempts in NFL (65%) much higher than Campbell's rate
2022 - 10-7 - 6th most attempts in NFL (52%)
2023 - 5-9 - 6th most attempts in NFL (46%) good for bottom 5 %

 

[shopson67]

It's not like Kelce got punched, clubbed, face-masked, etc. It was just a two handed push in the chests that only made him step back. Refs opted to try to get things under control instead of reading the situation and realize Kelce was goading them along.

 

[trojanfan12]

This is the issue. Some coaches know when to look at analytics and use it in game situations where it is smart to go for it. Campbell does not do that. He just goes for it bc that is his "staple". He won him games but it also lost him games in the regular season and now in the NFCCG.

-If you have a kick to tie the game in the NFCCG and to that point you haven't score a single point in the half, you take points when you can get them.
Same thing with the one earlier in the game. San Fran kicks a FG coming out of half, Detroit has a nice drive and they can get those 3 points right back but Campbell takes the risk instead of the easy points and going up 3 scores.

The fact is some people with agree with it and some will disagree but this style of play (extremely aggressive) has never been successful in winning a SB.

BB and Reid usually weigh their options and are smart with their decisions and sometimes risky. Campbell is a loose cannon. To compare Reid went for it half the time Campbell did and had a higher 4th down conversion rate this season. That tells me he is aggressive at times but he has a nice balance and knows when to take his points.

Just bc Orlovsky agrees with his decisions doesn't mean it is fact. It's just his opinion and people listen bc he talks football on a prime network. Problem is the logic of this risky play at some point fails. Playing it safe at times we know has a great track record and wins championship-you need a balance. Campbell has no balance.

Exactly.

I'd add that part of the reason teams have success going for it on 4th down (and what analytics seems to forget) is because they don't do it all the time, so opponents don't spend a lot of time preparing for it. But when you are uber aggressive and go for it a lot, opponents spend more time preparing for it. They'll learn the tendencies and what a ream likes to run and make it more difficult to convert.

If memory serves, when Chip Kelly was coaching Oregon, they would go for 2 quite a bit because analytics said they should. Problem was, teams prepared for it, and they couldn't convert enough to continue to do it. It was about the only part of that offense that teams could actually stop. lol

 

[fightinfunbags]

This is the issue. Some coaches know when to look at analytics and use it in game situations where it is smart to go for it. Campbell does not do that. He just goes for it bc that is his "staple". He won him games but it also lost him games in the regular season and now in the NFCCG.

-If you have a kick to tie the game in the NFCCG and to that point you haven't score a single point in the half, you take points when you can get them.
Same thing with the one earlier in the game. San Fran kicks a FG coming out of half, Detroit has a nice drive and they can get those 3 points right back but Campbell takes the risk instead of the easy points and going up 3 scores.

The fact is some people with agree with it and some will disagree but this style of play (extremely aggressive) has never been successful in winning a SB.

Disagree on this point. This is the way Doug Pederson coached. His aggression in calling the Philly Special at the end of the first half on 4th down instead of taking the auto choice of FG helped win the Eagles the Super Bowl.

BB and Reid usually weigh their options and are smart with their decisions and sometimes risky. Campbell is a loose cannon. To compare Reid went for it half the time Campbell did and had a higher 4th down conversion rate this season. That tells me he is aggressive at times but he has a nice balance and knows when to take his points.

Just bc Orlovsky agrees with his decisions doesn't mean it is fact. It's just his opinion and people listen bc he talks football on a prime network. Problem is the logic of this risky play at some point fails. Playing it safe at times we know has a great track record and wins championship-you need a balance. Campbell has no balance.

That balance you speak of may come over time for Campbell. His aggression helped put a team that’s been dog shit for decades into the NFC championship game. That really can’t be argued. The players on the team have taken on the aggressive persona of their coach and it has been to the benefit of the Lions.

It’s easy to poop on shit when it doesn’t work. Data shows that Campbell’s teams had executed on 4th down all year at a high clip. You have to be who you are.

 

[trojanfan12]

Coaches don’t get the benefit of hindsight. My guess is somewhere along the way he decided he’s not thinking about a missed fg all winter. I bet not one player on that team has an issue with what they did, it’s who they are.

Of course, the players are onboard with it. They're players and are always going to believe they can convert. That doesn't mean it's the right play. The coaches' job is to make those decisions to protect the players from themselves.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Of course, the players are onboard with it. They're players and are always going to believe they can convert. That doesn't mean it's the right play. The coaches' job is to make those decisions to protect the players from themselves.

Nope. It’s the coaches job to mold a winner.

 

[thunderc]

Of course, the players are onboard with it. They're players and are always going to believe they can convert. That doesn't mean it's the right play. The coaches' job is to make those decisions to protect the players from themselves.

He got them there, I’m not going to dog the guy. His job is as secure as any coach in the league I suspect. He decided if they were going to lose they would go down their way. Really stupid to straight up say the decisions were wrong, they didn’t work, that’s all.

 

[DJ Fieri]

That is a bad way to look at it. It means he isn't looking at it by situation, just pea brain logic. The guy is a roided out pea brain.

It pisses me off bc the Browns had so many bad coaches for a long time and this guy is being praised like he is one of the best coaches when in reality is average. Lets see him keep up this aggressive play and see if it works. I highly doubt it.

It got Staley fired....

2021 - 9-8 - 3rd most attempts in NFL (65%) much higher than Campbell's rate
2022 - 10-7 - 6th most attempts in NFL (52%)
2023 - 5-9 - 6th most attempts in NFL (46%) good for bottom 5 %

Staley made it to an AFC title game?

I must have missed that.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Staley for fired because they were perennial underachievers.....despite having a shit ton of talent.

LOL.

 

[thunderc]

Staley made it to an AFC title game?

I must have missed that.

Yeah the Staley comparisons are ridiculous. That guy went for 2 at weird times and was just off the rails.