GDT - July 1st Free Agency: I'll take Patrick Rissmiller for $4.0m Alex!

[Likewall32]

gotta love this

Coyotes' Doan expected to test free agent market on July 1, i wonder if Dougie pulls the trigger on a package deal with the doaner and whitney, screw paraise sharks need to win now lol

I would LOVE Doan & Whitney on this roster, but PELASE dougie, dont make a stupid ass trade for negotiating rights only to have it blow up in your face... Unless its a trade like they did for Stuart, 7th rounder & a couple of turd sandwiches...

 

[sjrules99]

Doan may only want a one year deal. If Pheonix fixes their ownership issues over the course of next season and are staying put I can see him wanting to go back asap.

Even better. To be honest, I'd prefer that just cuz his age. I just figured usually 35+ players prefer longer deals for the security in case of injury. If it's one year, it probably had to a higher cap hit. If 4M is possible, Id do it in a second, but even at 1 yr, 5M, I'd take it. A player with his offensive skill, physicality, and heart is well worth that kind of money.

If the reported numbers are right (600k desi, 775k wingels, 1.25 braun), then they should still have 8M in cap space left. Obviously, if they give doan 5M, then that pretty much does it for their shopping since they'd have 10 signed Forwards and would still need 3 more with just 3M left. However, if they can trade murray and/or zues, then they can still go after one more solid 3rd liner to round out the team. Either way, if you can add Doan, you do it.

 

[abaskin18]

I've always wondered what the main reason is that they have never really signed a good free agent. Is it Wilson? He has called free agency "the silly season" in the past. Is it the management? There were many times years ago that I thought they were more concerned with making a profit than winning a Cup. Is it that other players just don't want to come play here? Opinions??

Hard to say if there is a MAIN reason with so many factors playing into each UFA, their situation and relative place in the market. Ownership has been fine spending since Thornton was acquired, but that as a contributor before that.

I've always kind of been dismissive of the notion that big free agents usually sign where the money is right AND it's a traditional hockey market. From my POV, if the money is good, you've got a chance to win and it's a nice enough place that would be enough for me, but I just looked up a bunch of non-traditional market teams and here's what I saw:

ANA
Saku Koivu, good example of a good deal. Teemu (himself acquired via trade, signed, traded and resigned) helped on that one. I don’t think we can underestimate the comrade factor with the Neidermayer episode either.

ATL
Ladd acquired. They overpaid for Byfuglien at the time, but he looks like he’s going to keep earning it and then some. Antropov, meh, he under performs but I wouldn’t call him overpayed much if at all. That deal in SJ would be viewed negatively by the masses here, imo, though.

CAR
J. Staal, Pitkanen and Gleason all acquired via trade.

CBJ
At the time the Carter deal seemed high to many, iirc. Tyutin & Wisniewski traded for, great, and then signed at a pretty high premium, imo, not so great.

COL
Hejda’s is a good deal, imo, but they haven’t really made a splash that I can remember since the end of the Sakic days.

DAL
Ryder is about right and he earned it this year for sure, but at 3.5 it’s not enough to tip the data all that much. Galigoski acquired, Robidas acquired then signed, then dealt, then signed, iirc.

FLA
Fleischmann and Campbell acquired. Upshall overpaid. Even with a history in FLA, Jovo is overpaid.

LA
Mitchell, Scuderi, Gagne are all around 3.5. All on the high side, imo, taking into account age, injuries and everyone’s favorite: point production. They’re all worth it in retrospect though, for obvious reasons.

NSH
Fisher acquired

PHX
Vermette’s overpaid. Vrbata turned down money to get back to PHX.

TB
Overpaid for Malone, overpaid for Ohlund.

These are just what’s currently on the books, but I don’t remember any of these teams, even the few that have cup rings to entice them, making a splash in UFA without overpaying in the last, idk, 5 years? Am I missing anyone?

When I take a look at the highest paid players in the league, it takes an awful long while to scroll down to the highest paid guy on the list to sign as an UFA with one of these teams without having previously being acquired via trade (Byfuglien).

From what I see here and can remember beyond that (feel free to fill in the blanks, anyone) it looks like players wanting to play for teams in more traditional markets might have more to do with it than I would have thought.

 

[SJVP408]

Hard to say if there is a MAIN reason with so many factors playing into each UFA, their situation and relative place in the market. Ownership has been fine spending since Thornton was acquired, but that as a contributor before that.

I've always kind of been dismissive of the notion that big free agents usually sign where the money is right AND it's a traditional hockey market. From my POV, if the money is good, you've got a chance to win and it's a nice enough place that would be enough for me, but I just looked up a bunch of non-traditional market teams and here's what I saw:

ANA
Saku Koivu, good example of a good deal. Teemu (himself acquired via trade, signed, traded and resigned) helped on that one. I don’t think we can underestimate the comrade factor with the Neidermayer episode either.

ATL
Ladd acquired. They overpaid for Byfuglien at the time, but he looks like he’s going to keep earning it and then some. Antropov, meh, he under performs but I wouldn’t call him overpayed much if at all. That deal in SJ would be viewed negatively by the masses here, imo, though.

CAR
J. Staal, Pitkanen and Gleason all acquired via trade.

CBJ
At the time the Carter deal seemed high to many, iirc. Tyutin & Wisniewski traded for, great, and then signed at a pretty high premium, imo, not so great.

COL
Hejda’s is a good deal, imo, but they haven’t really made a splash that I can remember since the end of the Sakic days.

DAL
Ryder is about right and he earned it this year for sure, but at 3.5 it’s not enough to tip the data all that much. Galigoski acquired, Robidas acquired then signed, then dealt, then signed, iirc.

FLA
Fleischmann and Campbell acquired. Upshall overpaid. Even with a history in FLA, Jovo is overpaid.

LA
Mitchell, Scuderi, Gagne are all around 3.5. All on the high side, imo, taking into account age, injuries and everyone’s favorite: point production. They’re all worth it in retrospect though, for obvious reasons.

NSH
Fisher acquired

PHX
Vermette’s overpaid. Vrbata turned down money to get back to PHX.

TB
Overpaid for Malone, overpaid for Ohlund.

These are just what’s currently on the books, but I don’t remember any of these teams, even the few that have cup rings to entice them, making a splash in UFA without overpaying in the last, idk, 5 years? Am I missing anyone?

When I take a look at the highest paid players in the league, it takes an awful long while to scroll down to the highest paid guy on the list to sign as an UFA with one of these teams without having previously being acquired via trade (Byfuglien).

From what I see here and can remember beyond that (feel free to fill in the blanks, anyone) it looks like players wanting to play for teams in more traditional markets might have more to do with it than I would have thought.

I see the trend. Can't ignore it. Perhaps another factor is that small market teams don't want to have to afford those huge contracts. Can't have one player take up too much of their internal budget.

I'd add Whitney at $3 to the Coyotes. Doug should have jumped on that two years ago.

 

[sjrules99]

Hard to say if there is a MAIN reason with so many factors playing into each UFA, their situation and relative place in the market. Ownership has been fine spending since Thornton was acquired, but that as a contributor before that.

I've always kind of been dismissive of the notion that big free agents usually sign where the money is right AND it's a traditional hockey market. From my POV, if the money is good, you've got a chance to win and it's a nice enough place that would be enough for me, but I just looked up a bunch of non-traditional market teams and here's what I saw:

ANA
Saku Koivu, good example of a good deal. Teemu (himself acquired via trade, signed, traded and resigned) helped on that one. I don’t think we can underestimate the comrade factor with the Neidermayer episode either.

ATL
Ladd acquired. They overpaid for Byfuglien at the time, but he looks like he’s going to keep earning it and then some. Antropov, meh, he under performs but I wouldn’t call him overpayed much if at all. That deal in SJ would be viewed negatively by the masses here, imo, though.

CAR
J. Staal, Pitkanen and Gleason all acquired via trade.

CBJ
At the time the Carter deal seemed high to many, iirc. Tyutin & Wisniewski traded for, great, and then signed at a pretty high premium, imo, not so great.

COL
Hejda’s is a good deal, imo, but they haven’t really made a splash that I can remember since the end of the Sakic days.

DAL
Ryder is about right and he earned it this year for sure, but at 3.5 it’s not enough to tip the data all that much. Galigoski acquired, Robidas acquired then signed, then dealt, then signed, iirc.

FLA
Fleischmann and Campbell acquired. Upshall overpaid. Even with a history in FLA, Jovo is overpaid.

LA
Mitchell, Scuderi, Gagne are all around 3.5. All on the high side, imo, taking into account age, injuries and everyone’s favorite: point production. They’re all worth it in retrospect though, for obvious reasons.

NSH
Fisher acquired

PHX
Vermette’s overpaid. Vrbata turned down money to get back to PHX.

TB
Overpaid for Malone, overpaid for Ohlund.

These are just what’s currently on the books, but I don’t remember any of these teams, even the few that have cup rings to entice them, making a splash in UFA without overpaying in the last, idk, 5 years? Am I missing anyone?

When I take a look at the highest paid players in the league, it takes an awful long while to scroll down to the highest paid guy on the list to sign as an UFA with one of these teams without having previously being acquired via trade (Byfuglien).

From what I see here and can remember beyond that (feel free to fill in the blanks, anyone) it looks like players wanting to play for teams in more traditional markets might have more to do with it than I would have thought.

True though that is largely because those teams dont spend on anyone. That's why nashville has lost so many of its studs. Most of those teams are in the bottom 5 or 10 in the league, and their ownership wouldnt allow a 7 yr, 50M deal to an external UFA. I think SJ cant be included in that list because the sharks have been pretty much consistently at the cap amongst the highest spenders in the league. I think the ownership would allow dougie to bid high, but it's just not how dougie plays the GM game. I think players would be open to coming here if the $$ and term were there. It's hard to turn down the type of lifetime deals that hossa, B. richards, kovy, and the like have signed. It's a cap trick and it costs a ton with the front loading, but it works.

 

[abaskin18]

I see the trend. Can't ignore it. Perhaps another factor is that small market teams don't want to have to afford those huge contracts. Can't have one player take up too much of their internal budget.

I'd add Whitney at $3 to the Coyotes. Doug should have jumped on that two years ago.

I think unwillingness to spend contributes to not signing UFAs, absolutely. You see that in many historically relevant teams in traditional hockey markets too. But, from what I see on these teams books, with the possible (depends what happens with Suter & Weber) exception of Nashville, these teams don't have any problem paying for talent they draft, trade for, or overpay as UFAs.

BOLD: Word, good call, I should have had him on there, and would have been a great signing in SJ, but not really a big UFA splash. A lot like Ryder in DAL, not enough to tip the data much, imo.

True though that is largely because those teams dont spend on anyone. That's why nashville has lost so many of its studs. Most of those teams are in the bottom 5 or 10 in the league, and their ownership wouldnt allow a 7 yr, 50M deal to an external UFA. I think SJ cant be included in that list because the sharks have been pretty much consistently at the cap amongst the highest spenders in the league. I think the ownership would allow dougie to bid high, but it's just not how dougie plays the GM game. I think players would be open to coming here if the $$ and term were there. It's hard to turn down the type of lifetime deals that hossa, B. richards, kovy, and the like have signed. It's a cap trick and it costs a ton with the front loading, but it works.

Actually 5 of the 11 teams listed were playoff teams and two won divisions. Include the Sharks (as they should be since it was a look at non-traditional hockey markets) and it's 50%.

As for the rest, see my above response to VP. 11 of the 12 (with NSH as the possible exception) don't seem to mind spending money on players once they have them.

 

[sjrules99]

I think unwillingness to spend contributes to not signing UFAs, absolutely. You see that in many historically relevant teams in traditional hockey markets too. But, from what I see on these teams books, with the possible (depends what happens with Suter & Weber) exception of Nashville, these teams don't have any problem paying for talent they draft, trade for, or overpay as UFAs.

BOLD: Word, good call, I should have had him on there, and would have been a great signing in SJ, but not really a big UFA splash. A lot like Ryder in DAL, not enough to tip the data much, imo.



Actually 5 of the 11 teams listed were playoff teams and two won divisions. Include the Sharks (as they should be since it was a look at non-traditional hockey markets) and it's 50%.

As for the rest, see my above response to VP. 11 of the 12 (with NSH as the possible exception) don't seem to mind spending money on players once they have them.

Sorry, I wasnt clear in my post. i meant bottom 5-10 teams in terms of salary not standings.

 

[abaskin18]

Sorry, I wasnt clear in my post. i meant bottom 5-10 teams in terms of salary not standings.

Same response applies, really. A vast majority of these 12 teams will pay top dollars to players once they are on their teams.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Capgeek is up to date now. Wingels cap hit $775k, Braun $1.25M, Desi $640k.

The per for Braun. $1M, $1.25M, $1.5M.

 

[filosofy29]

Capgeek is up to date now. Wingels cap hit $775k, Braun $1.25M, Desi $640k.

The per for Braun. $1M, $1.25M, $1.5M.

All 3 of those are solid. I like it.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

This puts us a shade under $8.5M in cap space with Sheppard and Galiardi cap hits unknown.

 

[sjrules99]

This puts us a shade under $8.5M in cap space with Sheppard and Galiardi cap hits unknown.

My guess would be that galiardi's will come in somewhere around 850k for 1 year or 900k for a two year deal. I cant see him getting more than 2 years given his history. That said, he has a huge upside and anything in the 800-900k range would be fine with me. I would hope for 2 years, 1.8M.

Sheppard will be low. maybe 1 year, 2 way, with 800k at the NHL level. I would be OK with 2 years, 800k per at the NHL level, but it's gotta be a 2-way deal since he has not shown any signs of being a sure-fire NHLer.

With those deals, the sharks would have a few guys with a fairly nice upside in wingels, galiardi, and sheppard. Obviously, dougie cant count on em and still needs to upgrade the 3rd line, but at least it adds some youth intrigue. I look forward to seeing what the college FA's can do.

 

[SJVP408]

True though that is largely because those teams dont spend on anyone. That's why nashville has lost so many of its studs. Most of those teams are in the bottom 5 or 10 in the league, and their ownership wouldnt allow a 7 yr, 50M deal to an external UFA. I think SJ cant be included in that list because the sharks have been pretty much consistently at the cap amongst the highest spenders in the league. I think the ownership would allow dougie to bid high, but it's just not how dougie plays the GM game. I think players would be open to coming here if the $$ and term were there. It's hard to turn down the type of lifetime deals that hossa, B. richards, kovy, and the like have signed. It's a cap trick and it costs a ton with the front loading, but it works.

What you said above (italics) may be a reason small market (non traditional markets) do not give out front loaded deals. The cap hit is one thing, the actual amount paid out is another. Perhaps teams like SJ and ANA do not choose to front load contracts because the actual money paid out is just too rich for their blood. It's just a hunch and I have not done the research.

Of course, the Kovy deal goes against my hypothesis since NJ is considered small market and they signed Kovy to a monstrous front loaded deal. It works in that it gets the player here, but 5-6 years from now, the contract can be crippling.

 

[SJVP408]

I meant to italic the phrase "It's a cap trick and it costs a ton"

 

[sjrules99]

What you said above (italics) may be a reason small market (non traditional markets) do not give out front loaded deals. The cap hit is one thing, the actual amount paid out is another. Perhaps teams like SJ and ANA do not choose to front load contracts because the actual money paid out is just too rich for their blood. It's just a hunch and I have not done the research.

Of course, the Kovy deal goes against my hypothesis since NJ is considered small market and they signed Kovy to a monstrous front loaded deal. It works in that it gets the player here, but 5-6 years from now, the contract can be crippling.

That's what I first thought too, except retirement wipes it off the books. Rafalski was aging at the end of his deal and retired with a year left, wiping 6M off the cap. Little doubt that pronger will retire well before the 750k year at the end of his deal kick in. likely the same for hossa, zetterberg, franzen and all the other front loaded deals. I think both the GM and the players have an unspoken expectation that the super cheap years at the end will simply disappear when the player retires. This way the player gets his money and the GM gets the cap relief. Its a perfect cap circumvention technique and it's worked to bring cups to chicago, detroit, and LA (in the form of carter/richards). hell even marc savard's deal helped boston win the cup without him even being in the lineup. Now, Thomas will wipe his 5M cap hit off the boston books too, and its unlikely that bobby lu will play every year of his deal either.

Given this, either the ownership doesnt want to spend, or dougie is an idiot for not taking advantage of this smart plan.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Fun with Capgeek

TRADES
Pavelski, Clowe, Petrecki, 2013 1st for Nash
Boyle for Ott and a 1st
Niemi for Picks/Prospects

UFA SIGNINGS
Doan, Whitney, Suter

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Shane Doan ($4.000m)
Ray Whitney ($3.500m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
Daniel Winnik ($2.250m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / James Sheppard ($0.800m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.775m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brent Burns ($5.760m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Brad Stuart ($3.600m)
Matt Pelech ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Alex Stalock ($0.700m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)

BUYOUTS
Michal Handzus ($0.833m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,945,833; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $354,167

Never going to happen, just wanted to see if I could make it work.

 

[Cbrower91]

That's ballsy going with stalock and griess lol

 

[Slimpikins]

Fun with Capgeek

TRADES
Pavelski, Clowe, Petrecki, 2013 1st for Nash
Boyle for Ott and a 1st
Niemi for Picks/Prospects

UFA SIGNINGS
Doan, Whitney, Suter

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Shane Doan ($4.000m)
Ray Whitney ($3.500m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
Daniel Winnik ($2.250m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / James Sheppard ($0.800m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.775m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brent Burns ($5.760m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Brad Stuart ($3.600m)
Matt Pelech ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Alex Stalock ($0.700m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)

BUYOUTS
Michal Handzus ($0.833m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,945,833; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $354,167

Never going to happen, just wanted to see if I could make it work.

I wouldn't want that piece of shit anywhere near this franchise.

 

[Likewall32]

Fun with Capgeek

TRADES
Pavelski, Clowe, Petrecki, 2013 1st for Nash
Boyle for Ott and a 1st
Niemi for Picks/Prospects

UFA SIGNINGS
Doan, Whitney, Suter

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Shane Doan ($4.000m)
Ray Whitney ($3.500m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
Daniel Winnik ($2.250m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / James Sheppard ($0.800m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.775m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brent Burns ($5.760m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Brad Stuart ($3.600m)
Matt Pelech ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Alex Stalock ($0.700m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)

BUYOUTS
Michal Handzus ($0.833m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,945,833; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $354,167

Never going to happen, just wanted to see if I could make it work.

Pavs numbers = Nashs numbers. Pavs + Clowes numbers = way better then Nash numbers, Pavs, Clowe + giving up another 1st rounder for Nash = plain stupidity...

Nash = overrated overpayed... Stay far away from him please

 

[filosofy29]

Capitals just lost Wideman to the Flames and Mike Green is an RFA. Maybe the Sharks could trade Boyler (doing him a favor by trading him to a Cup Contender) for Brouwer and Chimera. Bring back somebody like Matt Carle (around $4M) and trade Douglas Murray for Danny Kristo.

Clowe-Thornton-Brouwer
Marleau-Couture-Havlat
Chimera-Pavelski-Wingels
Galiardi-Handzus-Desjardin

Burns-Carle
Demers-Vlasic
Braun-Stuart

Neimi
Stalock/Greiss