GDT - July 1st Free Agency: I'll take Patrick Rissmiller for $4.0m Alex!

[sjrules99]

Pollak thinks Desi is in the low $600k's and that Braun is like Demers $1.25m

if true, then it's a perfect set of signings. wingels for 800k, desi around 600k, and braun at 1.25 is just right. Cant see how he could possibly get those guys significantly cheaper than that. Also braun for 3 years at that price would actually be particularly good since the 3rd year of his deal would have been a UFA year. if braun gave up 1 year of UFA status and still signed at that price, then dougie did great.

One interesting side note: Dougie is reallly realllly good as signing RFA's to good deals. Aside from Matt carle, I cant remember a single RFA who was significantly overpaid. Pavs signed for pretty cheap and is still cheap as dougie did wonderfully with him. Clowe as well as still under 2M even after his breakout years. Cooch at 2.8 is rediculously cheep and even seto at 3M is cheap given that he was a 30 goal scorer. When you look around the league and see RFA's of similar quality raking in big deals, it's pretty impressive. Cooch>Duchene and older but is paid 700k less then next two years. It's definitely dougie's strong suit.

I wonder why he is so good at getting cheap deals from RFA's and so terrible with the UFA guys. strange...

 

[abaskin18]

It's like RFAs and UFAs exist in two different markets. It's a real noodle scratcher...

 

[rares]

One interesting side note: Dougie is reallly realllly good as signing RFA's to good deals. Aside from Matt carle, I cant remember a single RFA who was significantly overpaid. Pavs signed for pretty cheap and is still cheap as dougie did wonderfully with him. Clowe as well as still under 2M even after his breakout years. Cooch at 2.8 is rediculously cheep and even seto at 3M is cheap given that he was a 30 goal scorer. When you look around the league and see RFA's of similar quality raking in big deals, it's pretty impressive. Cooch>Duchene and older but is paid 700k less then next two years. It's definitely dougie's strong suit.

LOL! Think a little harder?

(unless I'm missing a technicality and he wasn't signed/extended while being RFA)

 

[MrChangoT97]

Now the real trick is to sign TJ & James & Stalock at a solid price.

I wish Doug would just come out and say what he plans on doing with Winnick.

 

[sjrules99]

It's like RFAs and UFAs exist in two different markets. It's a real noodle scratcher...

yeah yeah, I know, it kinda sounded dumb... Still relative to their respective markets, dougie seems to get good deals on his RFA's compared to other teams, but terrible UFA signings compared to the league.

And, oh yeah, I forgot about torrey mitchell. Had he signed that deal right after his rookie year, it owulda been reasonable. The problem was dougie gave it to him right AFTER he broke his leg when speed was all he had. That was definitely a bad one, though 1.4M, albeit 500k+ overpaid, isnt a total ridiculous deal, just a bad one.

 

[abaskin18]

I wish Doug would just come out and say what he plans on doing with Winnick.

Riiiiiiiight. That'll help negotiations, if any are planned.

is the word, man.

 

[abaskin18]

yeah yeah, I know, it kinda sounded dumb... Still relative to their respective markets, dougie seems to get good deals on his RFA's with whom he has an established relationship and exclusive negotiation rights compared to other teams, but terrible UFA signings compared to Detroit.

fify

 

[Cbrower91]

Now the real trick is to sign TJ & James & Stalock at a solid price.

I wish Doug would just come out and say what he plans on doing with Winnick.

He doesnt have too, he sent them qualifying offers,they are kind of already signed lol they dont have alot of leverage

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Pollak thinks Desi is in the low $600k's and that Braun is like Demers $1.25m

I was thinking he'd get about the same but that 3rd year will push it a little higher IMO

 

[sjrules99]

fify

I think his ability to have good relationships with his players is a key component of his skill at resigning his target guys once they are in the organization (see jumbo loving it here, burns' big extension, etc.) . He may have all the negotiating leverage but top RFA's can still command pretty top dollar and can choose not to sign and in essence "force" a trade. Dougie's RFA's consistently sign deals that other teams' RFA's wouldnt and they do so happily.

On the UFA market excluding resigning his own UFA's, I'd say he's one of the worst in the entire league. I cant remember a single UFA he signed brilliantly aside I suppose from Ekman, Malhotra, JR and nichol (which were good, but hardly incredible). The bad ones though are far more including Wallin, Handzues, Niitymaki, to name a few. It feels like good teams have much smarter and better signings like LA succeeding with scuderi and mitchell who were both excellent in their run. Or chicago landing hossa which was key to their cup. NJ landed Kovy which helped get them 2 wins from a cup. Or even boston signing ryder (17 pts, +8 in their cup run) and recchi (14 pts, +7).

Dougie has not signed a single UFA who has been influential in a run. In fact, no external UFA signing has had more than 4 pts (wallin and Blake) in the postseason for the sharks... Possibly one could argue Priessing (7 pts) was a UFA-ish since he was an undrafted FA.

Every cup winning team has made at least one influential and excellent UFA acquisition which was key to their cup. Dougie is clearly 0 on that front.

 

[abaskin18]

I think his ability to have good relationships with his players is a key component of his skill at resigning his target guys once they are in the organization (see jumbo loving it here, burns' big extension, etc.) . He may have all the negotiating leverage but top RFA's can still command pretty top dollar and can choose not to sign and in essence "force" a trade. Dougie's RFA's consistently sign deals that other teams' RFA's wouldnt and they do so happily.

On the UFA market excluding resigning his own UFA's, I'd say he's one of the worst in the entire league. I cant remember a single UFA he signed brilliantly aside I suppose from Ekman, Malhotra, JR and nichol (which were good, but hardly incredible). The bad ones though are far more including Wallin, Handzues, Niitymaki, to name a few. It feels like good teams have much smarter and better signings like LA succeeding with scuderi and mitchell who were both excellent in their run. Or chicago landing hossa which was key to their cup. NJ landed Kovy which helped get them 2 wins from a cup. Or even boston signing ryder (17 pts, +8 in their cup run) and recchi (14 pts, +7).

Dougie has not signed a single UFA who has been influential in a run. In fact, no external UFA signing has had more than 4 pts (wallin and Blake) in the postseason for the sharks... Possibly one could argue Priessing (7 pts) was a UFA-ish since he was an undrafted FA.

Every cup winning team has made at least one influential and excellent UFA acquisition which was key to their cup. Dougie is clearly 0 on that front.

Sigh...I didn't question the validity of claiming he's a bargain finder with guys already in the fold and not as good with UFAs. Nor did I say winning teams don't sign contributing UFAs. Nor did I say UFAs couldn't help the sharks. But you've certainly refuted those things...that I...didn't post...and haven't seen posted by anyone.

The fact that the dollars seem high to us (myself included) on many of the UFAs he has signed over the years says more to me about how it might be tough to get them to sign with SJ for whatever the reason, rather than just concluding he overpays UFAs. I suppose you could come to either or both conclusions though.

Why some people can't reconcile that him being good or bad at one thing doesn't equate to him being as good or bad at another different thing- That's what I don't understand, and I why I posted.

Also, pretty sure Jersey traded for Kovy before they signed him. And I'm not digging for the thread but I'll take a shot in the dark that SOME people, not naming names, might have thought they overpaid both in the trade and contract extension... Just sayin, you might want to take him off your list showing how other teams with good GMs do things DW hasn't. I also recall Scuderi being viewed as overpaid coming off a cup win for what he contributes point wise and Mitchell being an injury waiting to happen who also doesn't contribute much offensively. Again, I can't remember who said that...

 

[sjrules99]

Sigh...I didn't question the validity of claiming he's a bargain finder with guys already in the fold and not as good with UFAs. Nor did I say winning teams don't sign contributing UFAs. Nor did I say UFAs couldn't help the sharks. But you've certainly refuted those things...that I...didn't post...and haven't seen posted by anyone.

The fact that the dollars seem high to us (myself included) on many of the UFAs he has signed over the years says more to me about how it might be tough to get them to sign with SJ for whatever the reason, rather than just concluding he overpays UFAs. I suppose you could come to either or both conclusions though.

Why some people can't reconcile that him being good or bad at one thing doesn't equate to him being as good or bad at another different thing- That's what I don't understand, and I why I posted.

Also, pretty sure Jersey traded for Kovy before they signed him. And I'm not digging for the thread but I'll take a shot in the dark that SOME people, not naming names, might have thought they overpaid both in the trade and contract extension... Just sayin, you might want to take him off your list showing how other teams with good GMs do things DW hasn't. I also recall Scuderi being viewed as overpaid coming off a cup win for what he contributes point wise and Mitchell being an injury waiting to happen who also doesn't contribute much offensively. Again, I can't remember who said that...

I wasnt refuting, just commenting...

Also, I agree that many of the dollars and term being thrown around seem absurd. Also, I will admit that I thought the scuderi signing was ridiculous since he got all that money largely because of one great play saving a goal for Pitt. However, that's why great GM's are better than fans . Clearly the scuderi and mitchell signings worked. Of course, it didnt hurt having top 5 draft picks like johnson and schenn to dangle for richards and carter.

All I figure is that with the core this team had a few years ago after the boyle trade and with jumbo and patty at just 30, one or two tactical UFA signings might have made the difference. Also, I actually think dougie's unwillingness to cap circumvent hurt too. Deals for guys like zetterberg, franzen, hossa, carter, richards, etc. have all led directly to teams winning the cup. Not that you CANT win without it, but it's definitely harder. Dougie taking that option off the table limits his ability to compete for top UFA's.

 

[sjrules99]

I guess we'll have a chance to see based on stuart, who was basically a UFA signing. I will have absolutely zero problem eating all the crow I can handle if stuart plays with his salary. If he plays a strong 20-22 mins and emerges as a legit top 4 Dman on this team and leads them in the PO's too, I'll be perfectly fine with any "I told you so"s that are thrown my way. Maybe stuart is just the signing I was talking about...

 

[abaskin18]

I guess we'll have a chance to see based on stuart, who was basically a UFA signing. I will have absolutely zero problem eating all the crow I can handle if stuart plays with his salary. If he plays a strong 20-22 mins and emerges as a legit top 4 Dman on this team and leads them in the PO's too, I'll be perfectly fine with any "I told you so"s that are thrown my way. Maybe stuart is just the signing I was talking about...

Have a chance to see what? How will hindsight of Stuart's performance speak to anything about anything outside of it being a good, bad or solid signing in retrospect?

 

[Cbrower91]

gotta love this

Coyotes' Doan expected to test free agent market on July 1, i wonder if Dougie pulls the trigger on a package deal with the doaner and whitney, screw paraise sharks need to win now lol

 

[23sharks]

Thats a steal as far as I'm concerned

Me too. I like all 3 of those signings.

 

[23sharks]

I wasnt refuting, just commenting...

Also, I agree that many of the dollars and term being thrown around seem absurd. Also, I will admit that I thought the scuderi signing was ridiculous since he got all that money largely because of one great play saving a goal for Pitt. However, that's why great GM's are better than fans . Clearly the scuderi and mitchell signings worked. Of course, it didnt hurt having top 5 draft picks like johnson and schenn to dangle for richards and carter.

All I figure is that with the core this team had a few years ago after the boyle trade and with jumbo and patty at just 30, one or two tactical UFA signings might have made the difference. Also, I actually think dougie's unwillingness to cap circumvent hurt too. Deals for guys like zetterberg, franzen, hossa, carter, richards, etc. have all led directly to teams winning the cup. Not that you CANT win without it, but it's definitely harder. Dougie taking that option off the table limits his ability to compete for top UFA's.

I've always wondered what the main reason is that they have never really signed a good free agent. Is it Wilson? He has called free agency "the silly season" in the past. Is it the management? There were many times years ago that I thought they were more concerned with making a profit than winning a Cup. Is it that other players just don't want to come play here? Opinions??

 

[sjrules99]

I've always wondered what the main reason is that they have never really signed a good free agent. Is it Wilson? He has called free agency "the silly season" in the past. Is it the management? There were many times years ago that I thought they were more concerned with making a profit than winning a Cup. Is it that other players just don't want to come play here? Opinions??

Its not ownership. They spend to the cap every year, though perhaps they might balk at the front loaded contracts.

I think it's just dougie's style, and I dont blame him to a certain degree. When you have people in the organization, you know first hand how they are in the locker room and how they fit with your image and organizational culture. That said, if there are clear areas of weakness that simply cannot be addressed internally, then you have to be strategic in your UFA chasing. I dont mind that dougie hasnt ever landed a given year's prize UFA (like suter or parise). However, every year there are smart UFA signings that may not be the big headline but all the difference. It's those kinds of signings that would make dougie an elite GM.

This year, given the obvious lack of a stable third line, Dougie has to be shopping and if he does a real good job, it could be huge and they could return to contention.

 

[sjrules99]

Also, the doan and wizard availability is very attractive. I would throw 4M per for 3 years at doan if he'd take it. Wizard maybe 2 yrs 3M per. Obviously they are pretty old, but a top 9 F lineupe of Thornton, marleau, havlat, couture, pavelski, doan, clowe, whitney, and wingels would be pretty fearsome. That would give the sharks 3 serious scoring lines and a whole lot more heart and grit. I dunnot what it would take to poach both of them, but Doan is just what the sharks need. 20-25 goals, 50+ pts, HUUUUGGGEEEE Heart and clutch ability. And, it would be awesome to have the wizard end where he began.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Doan may only want a one year deal. If Pheonix fixes their ownership issues over the course of next season and are staying put I can see him wanting to go back asap.