ESPN's Mike Sando's starting QB ranking

[SonnyCID]

Actually that is not an exaggeration. Right now Wilson plays over 25% of his passes outside the pocket (given some of those are designed roll outs but a vast majority are just broken plays with some of them not even having pressure but him just thinking there is pressure).

Understand this that saying Wilson has some limitations to his game doesn't make him a bad quarterback. I can do the same for any quarterback such as Manning because of his poor arm strength and lack of movement is limited to actually having to stay in the pocket. Only about 3% of his throws are outside the pocket throughout a given season. This makes him an easier target and easier to know where to send the blitz. With Luck it comes down to he just seems to have brain farts on a semi regular basis. He can play out of this world for a while then just makes a crucial mistake that he doesn't need to make. He tries to force it way too much. Again though why I rank Andrew Luck above Wilson is I think Luck's game translates to just about any style of football that you need him to play. If he needs to play from the pocket he can tear a team apart. If he needs to get out of the pocket or make plays with his legs he can do that too. You take one away he is still very good at the other. Wilson again is a bit limited in if teams can force him to stay in the pocket (like we saw Green Bay do in the NFC Championship game) then he is more prone to mistakes as he just doesn't feel comfortable in the pocket. Throw in his lack of height does limit his abilities to throw over the middle. I would say the same thing about Brees in he does have some limitations over the middle which is why a majority of his passes are completed to the outside.

That's Wilson's number (Link?), not Luck's. I have a hard time believing that a guy who averages 64 rushes per year spends 90% of the time in the pocket.

 

[cdumler7]

That's Wilson's number (Link?), not Luck's. I have a hard time believing that a guy who averages 64 rushes per year spends 90% of the time in the pocket.

First off in my stats I am not using the times that it was a quarterback designed run. That is different than just scrambling out of the pocket when it is a designed pass. Actual scramble plays for Luck this past year were 37 times compared to 616 passing attempts. So that is about 6% of the plays that are designed for a pass that are then where he decides to move out of the pocket.

 

[SonnyCID]

First off in my stats I am not using the times that it was a quarterback designed run. That is different than just scrambling out of the pocket when it is a designed pass. Actual scramble plays for Luck this past year were 37 times compared to 616 passing attempts. So that is about 6% of the plays that are designed for a pass that are then where he decides to move out of the pocket.

Whose stats are you using? I dont buy that Luck leaves the pocket only once out of every 20 dropbacks. I'd like to see where other QBs fall in this metric.

 

[cdumler7]

Here you go...The stats I used for Wilson of the 25% were in the playoffs not the regular season. In the regular season he is actually closer to about 12% so a little better but still around double what Luck does.

 

[cdumler7]

Sorry forgot the link...

http://nflsavant.com/index.php

 

[SonnyCID]

Here you go...The stats I used for Wilson of the 25% were in the playoffs not the regular season. In the regular season he is actually closer to about 12% so a little better but still around double what Luck does.

That 13% is a bit more than "a little better". Escaping the pocket 2x more than Luck, while significant, is VERY different than 4+x more.

I'm having a hard time finding this in that link, is it in the "custom stats"?

 

[cdumler7]

I can't quite remember where I found it in there. I think if you go to each team stat they have a scramble stat in there that shows how often they scrambled on each down then just figure out compared to the number of passes they attempted to get the percentage. Not completely accurate but at this point the best stat I could find to show the difference between the two. Plus again all stats have to be understood they are not perfect as I have no idea how many of those are designed roll outs kind of thing or if it completely includes the times where they both just ran around in the pocket avoiding players to then make a play. I would consider that a bit of a scramble play in my book but others might only count those outside the pocket.

 

[Uhsplit]

So saying a 39 year old quarterback's best days are behind him and a what 25 year olds best days are ahead of them is big news? I would take Wilson over Manning at this point too because of the quality years ahead of him compared to the maybe 1 more year of Manning.

Now about this thread I haven't gone back and read everything on this post. I saw that ScoobyDoo had quoted one of my posts and just responded. Now whether it was this thread or another I can't remember but I do remember getting attacked quite heavily by Seahawks fans for putting Wilson at that 10-spot before. Heck I had him at the 7 spot at one point and was still called a hater for doing such a thing. Others ran into the same problem. I think it might have been on the thread about whether Andrew Luck was a top-5 quarterback and it turned quickly into a debate not so much about Luck but about Wilson and his abilities on the field. Again I actually like Wilson and would only take a few of the quarterbacks in the league over him and would have a tough decision compared to a few others. I see a few weaknesses to his game just like I do any quarterback in the league.

To me it is not how you rate RW as everyone values players differently.
My issue with you and others just like you are saying things like, prepare for a slew of Seahawk fans rushing to RW's defense, when after 9 pages I do not see any. It is not just you. I keep hearing shit about Seahawk fans saying this and that, yet I see no fire. I will continue to bash those that bash us 1st without having anything to go on other than their agenda.
Go Seahawks.
For me it is...
Rodgers
Brady
---------
Brees
Wilson
Luck
Ben
Rivers
Flacco
Romo
P Manning

Everyone else.

 

[BoBlake]

Should be pointed out that someone resurrected a thread that was started last summer, before Wilson helped lead the Seahawks to back to back Super Bowl appearances (and almost, wins).

 

[Uhsplit]

Should be pointed out that someone resurrected a thread that was started last summer, before Wilson helped lead the Seahawks to back to back Super Bowl appearances (and almost, wins).

Yes, I noticed that.

 

[cdumler7]

To me it is not how you rate RW as everyone values players differently.
My issue with you and others just like you are saying things like, prepare for a slew of Seahawk fans rushing to RW's defense, when after 9 pages I do not see any. It is not just you. I keep hearing shit about Seahawk fans saying this and that, yet I see no fire. I will continue to bash those that bash us 1st without having anything to go on other than their agenda.
Go Seahawks.
For me it is...
Rodgers
Brady
---------
Brees
Wilson
Luck
Ben
Rivers
Flacco
Romo
P Manning

Everyone else.

And you are entitled to your opinion. Now if you can't see that there are some Seahawks fans on here that go crazy any time something bad is said about their team then I can't help you. There is a reason that quite a few of us keep making these comments such as "watch out here come some Seahawks fans." It is not just because we don't like the Seahawks. Heck I honestly don't mind them as a team. I don't like some of their players like Lynch and Sherman but I respect the heck out of the organization. I'm just not a fan of the brash attitude some of the players have such as Sherman doing the "2-4" to the camera during the Super Bowl making fun of an opposing player. Why tear down another individual just to build yourself up? He did the same thing to quite a few other Corners in the league and has no problem bashing other quarterbacks or receivers either. I just don't see the point of it. His game already shows he is a top flight player in the league. Anyway beyond that the fan base is known for having a very similar attitude to that. Heck I lived in Seattle for the first couple of years of Russell Wilson being drafted and the team having the turnaround. I have lived a lot of places around the world and that was the one place that it was just very difficult to have a conversation with an opposing fan. You guys are high energy fans and that is great but there are some (just like with any fan base) that are over the top. Heck I know quite a few Seahawks fans that would agree DoubleJive is just nuts. There was a thread on here not too long after the Super Bowl of a Seahawks fan complaining of people picking on his team. So it is out there. Again every fan base has these type of guys though. There have been some Bronco fans on here that were over the top. Most have left but there are plenty of them that are over the top but just not many that are on here.

 

[Uhsplit]

And you are entitled to your opinion. Now if you can't see that there are some Seahawks fans on here that go crazy any time something bad is said about their team then I can't help you. There is a reason that quite a few of us keep making these comments such as "watch out here come some Seahawks fans." It is not just because we don't like the Seahawks. Heck I honestly don't mind them as a team. I don't like some of their players like Lynch and Sherman but I respect the heck out of the organization. I'm just not a fan of the brash attitude some of the players have such as Sherman doing the "2-4" to the camera during the Super Bowl making fun of an opposing player. Why tear down another individual just to build yourself up? He did the same thing to quite a few other Corners in the league and has no problem bashing other quarterbacks or receivers either. I just don't see the point of it. His game already shows he is a top flight player in the league. Anyway beyond that the fan base is known for having a very similar attitude to that. Heck I lived in Seattle for the first couple of years of Russell Wilson being drafted and the team having the turnaround. I have lived a lot of places around the world and that was the one place that it was just very difficult to have a conversation with an opposing fan. You guys are high energy fans and that is great but there are some (just like with any fan base) that are over the top. Heck I know quite a few Seahawks fans that would agree DoubleJive is just nuts. There was a thread on here not too long after the Super Bowl of a Seahawks fan complaining of people picking on his team. So it is out there. Again every fan base has these type of guys though. There have been some Bronco fans on here that were over the top. Most have left but there are plenty of them that are over the top but just not many that are on here.

Not asking for any help. I was clear that whenever someone bashes us without merit, I will let that person know about it.
If DJ is causing a ruckus amongst folks, I suggest taking it up directly with him. Just as you say many Seahawk fans go nutz...there are many non Seahawk fans that enjoy convo with us as evidenced in the "lax team forum thread".
We deserve lots of the grief we get. I razed Baldwin for his act at the SB. Bush league.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Wilson has great intangibles and is very smart. I like him as a QB. I just don't think he was very consistent in the playoffs. It will be interesting to see how he responds this year especially if Lynch retires. I think Lynch has more to do with the productiveness of the Seahawks offense than Wilson does.

 

[BeaReylo]

Yep for the most part I agree with the ranking order.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeap, it's the off season already. People bitching up a storm about the Seahawks. Nothing new here.

I mean I get why people were all hating on them last year, but they didn't even win this year. Why not stir up the hate on the Pats and leave Seattle alone?

I really couldn't care less where anyone has Wilson rated. It won't ever change what he does on the field.

I don't care if he is #1 or #10. He's our QB. There is zero chance we would move him and get anything better. No one has more come from behind wins over the last 3 years than he does. And the team went to back to back SB's with him at the helm.

Some of you can spend your days trying to knock him down a peg or making up excuses for why their winning isn't really because of him and I'll simply say who cares why they win, as long as they keep on doing it.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Poor Seahawks fans and the hate they have to endure. Why is this still legal??? Somebody please outlaw haters. For the love of all that is righteous!!

 

[RoboticDreams]

 

[Uhsplit]

Wilson has great intangibles and is very smart. I like him as a QB. I just don't think he was very consistent in the playoffs. It will be interesting to see how he responds this year especially if Lynch retires. I think Lynch has more to do with the productiveness of the Seahawks offense than Wilson does.

The Seahawks have had many more productive RB's over the years vs productive QBs. Hell, just look at our FB's over the years, John L, Mack Strong, MRob.
We have never had someone quite like Russell. He throws dimes down field. He demoralizes defenses when he runs. He is absolutely driven like no other.
Seahawk fans know he has his faults, but we have never seen his limits.
Swapping our own substitutes, Russell-Turbin go a lot farther than Tarvaris-Lynch.
I ask you Scoob, which duo would you rather face?
That is not even close and before anyone says Tarvaris is garbage, he is a great #2 QB.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Sheesh I put the guy at #10 and I am considered a hater? Wow sensitive much?

LOL, I had him 8-12

 

[Uhsplit]

I have no problem with either of your opinions of RW's ranking.
Heck, I'm surprised no one slammed me for ranking PM #10. Not yet anyway.

LOL, I had him 8-12