2025 Rosterbation

[sf1giantfan]

Dodgers have the money so they can in reality outbid anyone. What they paid for him and the years over exceeded Snell’s worth. I say instead we should go for the two Japanese pitchers that we won’t get.

 

[calsnowskier]

By no means am I an FZ apologist but I do wonder how much his hands were tied on building the farm system. If the mandate from ownership is no tear down and don't trade players to make it appear that the team is giving up on the season and they don't invest in scouting and/or the farm system, could it be that it wasn't FZ's fault after all and that Posey's leadership won't make a difference on how this team looks the next 3 to 4 years?
This is purely speculation, of course. My hope (sorry Farhan) that it is mainly on FZ and that Posey will do a better job. However, I have to brace myself for the possibility that ownership expects wonders from a limited set of ways to build the team and that we may not see much improvement either with the product on the field or with the quality in the farm.

I don’t have a lot of faith in Posey, tbh. He has no experience as a business strategist or as an executive. I have HOPE that his mentality will navigate the ship in the right direction, but I am not betting the helipad on his likelihood of success.

And of course, if ownership isn’t on board with building a winner, we are fuct either way. There is no point in arguing that point because that is already throwing in the towel.

 

[calsnowskier]

Dodgers have the money so they can in reality outbid anyone. What they paid for him and the years over exceeded Snell’s worth. I say instead we should go for the two Japanese pitchers that we won’t get.

Any team can spend that money. If you build it, they will come. And most of the money the doggies are spending is deferred, which makes it actually much lower than the published numbers make them look.

But they are able to break ties with other clubs because they are so well run. They have a solid farm that makes their product on the field look appealing to FAs. They make smart trades that bring in stars, even while rebuilding (they can lose while still drawing fans who want to see big names on the back of the jersey’s). The Giants, in the FZ years, put a product on the field that REPELLED fans. There was no celebrity factor, so there was no difference in watching the Giants play and the local bar softball team.

 

[filosofy29]

Maybe the Dodgers paid us back in full for Special Agent Ned Colletti…Special Agent FZ

 

[SF11704]

I don’t have a lot of faith in Posey, tbh. He has no experience as a business strategist or as an executive. I have HOPE that his mentality will navigate the ship in the right direction, but I am not betting the helipad on his likelihood of success.

And of course, if ownership isn’t on board with building a winner, we are fuct either way. There is no point in arguing that point because that is already throwing in the towel.

You've identified the core problem that we as fans face. It really isn't Posey who is the key at this moment. It is, as you stated .... ownership.
They have to agree to a build before anything can really happen. If they agree, then Posey steps into the spotlight.
From my point of view .... he needs to strengrhen the 'core team' to a point where they can win atleast 85 games. For me this is where they need to be to even think about playoffs. If you can bring them to this point then I feel you can start looking at options for upgrades. I think that Chapman was a good move in that direction. Getting Lee back will help. but it's not quite enough .... yet. Kim would be a nice acquisition.
I think we need to be more competitive to attact some of the higher tier FA. Geting us to an 85 win level would be a real nice start. At least it would place us in playoff contention. With Snell out of the picture ... I'd like to see them use that money to go after some additional offense .... Roberts would be a nice target if he wasn't so fragile... just my 2 cents ...

 

[sf1giantfan]

Chapman mentioned other players contacted him about playing for the Giants, I believe after he signed the extension. So, I’m counting on those players joining us soon to help us.

 

[msgkings322]

As much as I hate the Doggies I have to admit that they probably have the best model of how a team should be built and maintained. For the past decade they have had a 'core' team that consistently wins 93+ games a year. They spend their off season upgrading key pieces. For us ... we've only had 1 season above 81 wins in the past 8 years and that was a fluke year. Snelk would have been a nice piece to have but in the long run be only gives us 30 games a year. If we are going to spend that much money I would rather spend it on a 150 game piece of the puzzle that we can use for the next 5 years. Just as a comparasion ... IMHO ... for that money I would want Soto over Snelk ...

For that money you’d get Soto for about 2 months max

 

[LHG]

For that money you’d get Soto for about 2 months max

I'd say 3 months but your point is still valid.

 

[LHG]

You've identified the core problem that we as fans face. It really isn't Posey who is the key at this moment. It is, as you stated .... ownership.
They have to agree to a build before anything can really happen. If they agree, then Posey steps into the spotlight.
From my point of view .... he needs to strengrhen the 'core team' to a point where they can win atleast 85 games. For me this is where they need to be to even think about playoffs. If you can bring them to this point then I feel you can start looking at options for upgrades. I think that Chapman was a good move in that direction. Getting Lee back will help. but it's not quite enough .... yet. Kim would be a nice acquisition.
I think we need to be more competitive to attact some of the higher tier FA. Geting us to an 85 win level would be a real nice start. At least it would place us in playoff contention. With Snell out of the picture ... I'd like to see them use that money to go after some additional offense .... Roberts would be a nice target if he wasn't so fragile... just my 2 cents ...

Problem with Robert is that the White Sox still expect the same package in return as what they would have likely got had they traded him after the 2023 season. For a team like the Giants, that is taking a lot of risk shipping out the best prospects from a thin farm for a guy who cannot seem to stay healthy and suddenly has questions about his hit tools.

 

[msgkings322]

I'd say 3 months but your point is still valid.

I don't know why anyone mentions Soto in connection with the Giants at all. There was never even a shred of a thought that the Giants would pursue him.

 

[LHG]

I don't know why anyone mentions Soto in connection with the Giants at all. There was never even a shred of a thought that the Giants would pursue him.

A fan can dream. And the Giants "were in" on most big name FAs of late. So the expectation is that they would seriously try. But it appears that the closest the Giants got was a brief rumor that they hadn't talked to Boras or Soto as of that report. Now, it is expected that 5 teams have made/will make serious offers and none of them are the Giants.

 

[msgkings322]

Problem with Robert is that the White Sox still expect the same package in return as what they would have likely got had they traded him after the 2023 season. For a team like the Giants, that is taking a lot of risk shipping out the best prospects from a thin farm for a guy who cannot seem to stay healthy and suddenly has questions about his hit tools.

Like any other trade, they will demand a lot and see if anyone steps up. If no one does they will come down a bit. The Giants would have to match or beat whatever other packages offered. Obvious stuff but it's strange when posters say 'well so and so will cost a lot so forget it'. They cost what they cost, either we are a team willing to step up and pay market prices for good players or we aren't.

 

[msgkings322]

A fan can dream. And the Giants "were in" on most big name FAs of late. So the expectation is that they would seriously try. But it appears that the closest the Giants got was a brief rumor that they hadn't talked to Boras or Soto as of that report. Now, it is expected that 5 teams have made/will make serious offers and none of them are the Giants.

I never once expected them to try for Soto, they'd never be able to spend the $ it will take and a lefty bat is never coming here when every other team wants him.

 

[LHG]

Like any other trade, they will demand a lot and see if anyone steps up. If no one does they will come down a bit. The Giants would have to match or beat whatever other packages offered. Obvious stuff but it's strange when posters say 'well so and so will cost a lot so forget it'. They cost what they cost, either we are a team willing to step up and pay market prices for good players or we aren't.

That is assuming the White Sox are so desperate to trade him that they will come down, this offseason. There is no urgency, at this point, to ship him out for less than what they think he is worth. They stood pat last offseason. They could gamble that he bounces back in 2025 and ship him off midseason with a sizeable return. Sure, they could get scared and think that he will only get worse and trade him for a lesser package but I don't think that will happen, at least not before April 2025.

 

[LHG]

Maybe the Dodgers paid us back in full for Special Agent Ned Colletti…Special Agent FZ

I wondered that when FZ was first hired.

 

[SF11704]

For that money you’d get Soto for about 2 months max

While I understand your position it does raise some intetesting questions about Soto and what is his real value on an open market. Snell got a 37.5M base over 5 years with a 52M sigbing bonus. Hell of a lot of money. What is Soto's value. IMHO he is not the player Ohtani is. I also think that Judge is a better overall player both offensively and defenesively. Judge signed for 40M a year ago. Where is the line for Soto in 2025? The ability to utilize deferred payments has changed the landscape dramatically ... but where will the Dodgers be when all these deferemenrs come due?

 

[msgkings322]

While I understand your position it does raise some intetesting questions about Soto and what is his real value on an open market. Snell got a 37.5M base over 5 years with a 52M sigbing bonus. Hell of a lot of money. What is Soto's value. IMHO he is not the player Ohtani is. I also think that Judge is a better overall player both offensively and defenesively. Judge signed for 40M a year ago. Where is the line for Soto in 2025? The ability to utilize deferred payments has changed the landscape dramatically ... but where will the Dodgers be when all these deferemenrs come due?

Soto is a lot younger than those guys. He is getting Ohtani money

 

[LHG]

Giants Interested In Corbin Burnes

The Giants have already been linked to some prominent free agents this winter, and it appears as though Corbin Burnes …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

In a vacuum, I'd pick Burnes over Snell due to consistency and lack of health issues so far. But the idea that the Giants didn't even really seem to consider Snell (and, if they did, he signed with the rival after saying he'd like to stay in SF shows what a punk he is), whose signing wouldn't forfeit draft picks, while getting in the rumor mill for an expensive pitcher whose signing would require forfeiting draft picks, is a bit frustrating.

With that said, Burnes hasn't signed with the Giants (yet) and we don't know much of the story on Snell. So its very likely that the comparison isn't worth the frustration right now.

 

[tzill]

Problem with Robert is that the White Sox still expect the same package in return as what they would have likely got had they traded him after the 2023 season. For a team like the Giants, that is taking a lot of risk shipping out the best prospects from a thin farm for a guy who cannot seem to stay healthy and suddenly has questions about his hit tools.

I think this ‘thin farm’ narrative needs to be changed. The farm is much closer to middle of the pack now.

 

[tzill]

Like any other trade, they will demand a lot and see if anyone steps up. If no one does they will come down a bit. The Giants would have to match or beat whatever other packages offered. Obvious stuff but it's strange when posters say 'well so and so will cost a lot so forget it'. They cost what they cost, either we are a team willing to step up and pay market prices for good players or we aren't.

Sure, but it’s not just a matter of money. It’s a matter of trading prospects too.