2024 Rosterbation

[sf1giantfan]

Imanaga better hurry up and sign with us before he runs out of time.

 

[tzill]

Imanaga better hurry up and sign with us before he runs out of time.

The inter webs are saying that we are the favorites to get him.

Just hope FZ doesn't sign Chap or Belli.

 

[LHG]

Really? How are we not even in the top 5 finalists? This is ridiculous!

 

[calsnowskier]

I don’t blame FAs for not giving the Giants any tie-breakers. Their current structure does not give any PERSON any reason to want to be here.

 

[LHG]

I don’t blame FAs for not giving the Giants any tie-breakers. Their current structure does not give any PERSON any reason to want to be here.

Based on FZ's statements, they shouldn't be merely tying for best offer.

 

[calsnowskier]

Based on FZ's statements, they shouldn't be merely tying for best offer.

It seems like top-level players are trading additional funds for QOL considerations. After 10M/year, and/or 100M total value, what does an additional dollar really add to your life? They would prefer to be in a good culture organization who tries to win and treats their players like actual breathing human being rather than computer assets in a sim game.

 

[LHG]

It seems like top-level players are trading additional funds for QOL considerations. After 10M/year, and/or 100M total value, what does an additional dollar really add to your life? They would prefer to be in a good culture organization who tries to win and treats their players like actual breathing human being rather than computer assets in a sim game.

It is weird to see this after so many years of, typically (but not always), "top dollar wins". Good for those players to finally see that more money doesn't mean best offer. Stinks for us Giants' fans.

 

[sf1giantfan]

I guess we will know by today or tomorrow.

 

[calsnowskier]

It is weird to see this after so many years of, typically (but not always), "top dollar wins". Good for those players to finally see that more money doesn't mean best offer. Stinks for us Giants' fans.

The Giants have refused to focus on their farm for generations. They have lived on the Humm Baby era, a single FA signing from 30+ years ago and an amazing, non-sustainable streak of draft hits to try to sell an image of relevance to it’s fan base. They used to focus on their alumni and history, and that built a connection with the fans for generations. Now they want to copy the A’s and Rays in how to collect wins by alienating the fanbase and not spending any dollar that isn’t absolutely required.

The Giants should be at the top of the pecking order with the Cards, Cubs, Mets, and Red Sox. Expecting them to compete with the doggies and Spanks is financially not fair to ask of anyone, but they should STRIVE for that, not Oakland and Tampa.

 

[LHG]

The Giants have refused to focus on their farm for generations. They have lived on the Humm Baby era, a single FA signing from 30+ years ago and an amazing, non-sustainable streak of draft hits to try to sell an image of relevance to it’s fan base. They used to focus on their alumni and history, and that built a connection with the fans for generations. Now they want to copy the A’s and Rays in how to collect wins by alienating the fanbase and not spending any dollar that isn’t absolutely required.

The Giants should be at the top of the pecking order with the Cards, Cubs, Mets, and Red Sox. Expecting them to compete with the doggies and Spanks is financially not fair to ask of anyone, but they should STRIVE for that, not Oakland and Tampa.

Plus, Oakland and Tampa have horrible attendance numbers. You'd think an ownership group that wants to put fans in seats would recognize that but they are probably too focused on the fact that FZ came last from the Dodgers to see that the FO's focus comes from earlier in his employment history.

 

[filosofy29]

Plus, Oakland and Tampa have horrible attendance numbers. You'd think an ownership group that wants to put fans in seats would recognize that but they are probably too focused on the fact that FZ came last from the Dodgers to see that the FO's focus comes from earlier in his employment history.

Funny thing is the Dodgers got a Rays guy iirc, Friedman, who still does what they do but also spends money now that he has it. Such a shocking concept.

 

[sf1giantfan]

It does sound like strike three for the Giants.

 

[calsnowskier]

Funny thing is the Dodgers got a Rays guy iirc, Friedman, who still does what they do but also spends money now that he has it. Such a shocking concept.

They also capitalize on unforeseen industry surprises like Freeman. They didn’t need a 1B, but there was a needle mover available, and they made it work. While they sucked, they bought bad contracts to keep fans interested WHILE they rebuilt the farm. They NEVER signed a middling FA days before teams needed to make compensation decisions, solely for the purpose of punting a first round pick.

 

[sf1giantfan]

Pivot to Marcus Stroman ?

 

[LHG]

Pivot to Marcus Stroman ?

I'd prefer Jordan Montgomery

 

[SF11704]

Pivot to Marcus Stroman ?

They also capitalize on unforeseen industry surprises like Freeman. They didn’t need a 1B, but there was a needle mover available, and they made it work. While they sucked, they bought bad contracts to keep fans interested WHILE they rebuilt the farm. They NEVER signed a middling FA days before teams needed to make compensation decisions, solely for the purpose of punting a first round pick.

While I agree with this I'm also starting to think that this FA season may have changed the landscape of baseball in general. This is the first time I can remember seeing the use of massive deferments that extend well beyond a player's actual years of expected productivity. In some cases the teams can cover this with marketing revenues but not for all players. By the time Ohtani his the deferment years he will be in his late 30s (39 maybe) ... at this point the team will incur some very heavy costs for a player who may not even be able to play at all. I just don't understand the revenue model for these types of contracts. How do you fund players that are no longer playing and also acquire replacements

 

[calsnowskier]

While I agree with this I'm also starting to think that this FA season may have changed the landscape of baseball in general. This is the first time I can remember seeing the use of massive deferments that extend well beyond a player's actual years of expected productivity. In some cases the teams can cover this with marketing revenues but not for all players. By the time Ohtani his the deferment years he will be in his late 30s (39 maybe) ... at this point the team will incur some very heavy costs for a player who may not even be able to play at all. I just don't understand the revenue model for these types of contracts. How do you fund players that are no longer playing and also acquire replacements

The deferred payments are essentially just Ohtani investing in the dodgers, buying a bond in the team (much as Bonilla did with his Mets buy out). If he accrues 70M in ‘24, but only “takes home” 10M in ‘24 while getting 60M in ‘34 instead, that isn’t actually a 70M salary in ‘24. That is 10M + X that is then invested in a 10 year bond that will pay 60M in ‘34. I would guess that equates to something like 25M. Se he is ACTUALLY making 35M in ‘24 and investing 25M of that immediately in a 10 year bond that pays 60M upon maturity.

The numbers are obviously BS, but it tells the financial story accurately enough for a sports forum.

 

[SF11704]

The deferred payments are essentially just Ohtani investing in the dodgers, buying a bond in the team (much as Bonilla did with his Mets buy out). If he accrues 70M in ‘24, but only “takes home” 10M in ‘24 while getting 60M in ‘34 instead, that isn’t actually a 70M salary in ‘24. That is 10M + X that is then invested in a 10 year bond that will pay 60M in ‘34. I would guess that equates to something like 25M. Se he is ACTUALLY making 35M in ‘24 and investing 25M of that immediately in a 10 year bond that pays 60M upon maturity.

The numbers are obviously BS, but it tells the financial story accurately enough for a sports forum.

Makes sense now ... but leads to another question ... WHO is actually making the investment of the 25M ... is it Ohtani or the Dodgers? If I'm deferring 25M in salary ... with the stipulation that I want 60M back in 10 years ... who owns the 'short fall' if that happens? Say you defer 25M but in 10 years it only yields 50M ... which party owns the 10M loss.

 

[calsnowskier]

Makes sense now ... but leads to another question ... WHO is actually making the investment of the 25M ... is it Ohtani or the Dodgers? If I'm deferring 25M in salary ... with the stipulation that I want 60M back in 10 years ... who owns the 'short fall' if that happens? Say you defer 25M but in 10 years it only yields 50M ... which party owns the 10M loss.

It isn’t a floating percentage. It is a fixed return. The doggies owe him the specified amounts. That is non-negotiable.

Bonilla essentially bought an 8% annuity. He gave the Mets the remainder of the money they owed him and in return, he got a 1M annuity beginning 15 years later and paying out for 20 years (or whatever the specifics were). I did the math years ago and found it was a simple 8% compounded annually investment. That is a good investment, but it doesn’t deserve the mind blowing coverage it gets every year.

Remember that a couple days after the Ohtani deal was announced, it turned out it only hit the doggies for a total of about 375M in cap hit, not the full 700M. That is because the 700M includes a LOT of interest paid on those deferments and don’t count as salary.

 

[SF11704]

Got it ... thanks. Some very creative financing i have to admit. But it willl all go back to one of your originsl posts. Money will no longer be the prime consideration. They will get what they want from multiple team offers ... it will all come down to the .... extras ... what can the teams offer outside of the money ... and that is where we will really struggle ...