Dipoto Gets Extension

[mcnabb7542]

I’ll disagree with @seahawksfan234 and @NWinAZ I think if this group was in charge in 95, I think all (including Tino) but Randy and ARod would’ve been resigned. ARod wanted to be the highest paid player as did Junior, doesn’t seem smart to have 2 of the 3 highest paid players when you have 23 other spots to fill out. I still don’t completely fault them for not resigning Randy, he had back problems so they didn’t want a long term contract and he did. Where I blame them is because they made it public essentially burning the bridge to negotiate. I don’t think they meant it malicious but you cannot openly say stuff like that.

Since Safeco Field/The Pink opened up I don’t really think payroll has been an issue. It’s ownership making wrong decision time and again on GM’s and Managers.

Yeah I think back then the front office was looking to keep Griffey here and make him the highest paid player in the MLB and they actually bought into ARod's crap about a home town discount and commitment to stay here as well.

The reality should've been trade ARod for a bag of prospects and resign Randy, bad back or not he put everything he had into 95 for you. He would've been the plus reaction of the Felix deal.

 

[SeattleCoug]

That is the most unrealistic expectation in the history of sports literally in all of sports you as the owner are about to hire a GM and you are telling him to take your team that lost 86 games with your best player being an old DH in Nelson Cruz and Felix Hernandez which to everyone knew that he was getting worse by the season and in one year turn that into a playoff team? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and how is Dipoto supposed to do that? Like I said unless we have a mega payroll give out 6-8 year contracts and over pay for free agents this is impossible there is no human walking on this earth that could have done that

I am willing to give Dipoto a pass for some things but not this sorry. The 2015 team that lost 86 games or whatever was expected to make the playoffs the year before and fell on their faces so there's no reason to pretend he was working with dearth of talent. And that old DH Nelson Cruz was the best player on the team during his stint here and I am not sure there is much debate about that, he averaged a WRC+ over 145 per season. The Mariners will probably never hit on another free agent signing that good. I've already addressed Felix so I wont go there again.

And I dont feel like we should pretend he had no budget to work with. In those three years 2016-2018, he brought in guys like Lind, Aoki, Cishek, Benoit, Miley, Gallardo(slightly more then what Seth Smith was traded for), Scrabble(Rsyzepki dont care about spelling), Leake, Smyly, Phelps, Gordon, etc. to name some. All made decent money and weren't brought in to a rebuilding team. They were brought in because they a veteran guys who have performed before and we suppose to enhance a playoff team.

Again I'll say it again, Dipoto's job was to make the current situation (2016) a playoff team. Not sure how we can pretend like that wasn't the expectation. I am not asking to hand out 6-8 year deals but every July 31 when they have been in the hunt somewhat the last 3 years they have sat on their hands while a team like the A's who have much bigger payroll restrictions then the Mariners didnt.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yea Felix's decline started in 2015 and its just gotten progressively worse since. After just missing the CY Young in 2014 with a fWAR of 5.6 and a FIP of 2.56 his numbers got progressively worse the next years to 2.7 fWAR/3.72 FIP in 2015, 1.1/4.63 in 2016 to 0.4/5.02 in 2017. Considering his age and recent injuries, it was fair to summarize that his best days were well behind him. Yet coming in 2018, a year where they were supposed to be contending, Dipoto still was pegging him as a front of the rotation pitcher on a contending team. Contending and hoping to get lucky have proven not to be the same thing

I think there might've been signs of his decline as early as 2015 as you said. Overall he had a good season, but he really tailed off towards the end of the season which might've been an early sign of his eventual decline. He finished 2015 with an ERA of 3.53, but he had an ERA of 5.05 over his last 11 starts. In 2016 despite his overall ERA for the season being 3.82 he had a 5.23 ERA over his final 8 starts.

I'm kind of cherry picking my stats here, but he wasn't really able to finish the season strong in 2015 or 2016 which could've been an indication of what was to come.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I don't think they would. I think they would Griffey because he was the most marketable and the rest would be gone just like before. Nothing with this franchise has shown me otherwise. Probably never will.

Hard to say and you could be right. It's obviously difficult to adjust for inflation and increasing MLB salaries. There are a lot of variables at play. We could disagree, but I will say that I believe they're willing to spend enough to be a top-5 spender. At one point I believe they had a ~$170m payroll which would be 6th in baseball behind the Giants, Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox as of today. I have to add that I'm not confident in that number and too lazy to double check, that number just sticks out in my head for some reason.

Yep. But they would have never traded Felix while he was still on top. They know that is a great way to kill fan support and they also know his one salary is doable because of all the money it brings in. He made them relevant which helps with tickets, merchandising, and TV deals. They know what they are doing as a business they just don't care about the baseball part. I remember when Lincoln complained that about how making the playoffs loses them money. Who brings that up if even true?

I'll have to agree with you on this one. Although I will add that this was also likely a product of the delusion on behalf of the front office that Felix would be the ace of a playoff team that was just a piece or two away from contending. That King's Court shit was marketing genius because it put people in seats that otherwise would've been mostly empty.

Agreed, but I may be the one fan who believed Bavasi di the right thing signing Beltre and Sexson. I don't now if he was aloud to spend more after that or not, but as I recall those two helped increase wins by 25 wins in their 3rd year here (63 in 2004 (year before Beltre/Sexon), 69 in 2005, 78 in 2006, 88 in 2007 (3rd year here).

Too bad that Beltre lost his bat when he was with us. I'll always remember him as having the most incredible arm I've ever seen from a third baseman. I know there is a huge difference between throwing off the mound and throwing from third to first, but man he threw some damn missiles.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I don't think they would. I think they would Griffey because he was the most marketable and the rest would be gone just like before. Nothing with this franchise has shown me otherwise. Probably never will.

Hard to say and you could be right. It's obviously difficult to adjust for inflation and increasing MLB salaries. There are a lot of variables at play. We could disagree, but I will say that I believe they're willing to spend enough to be a top-5 spender. At one point I believe they had a ~$170m payroll which would be 6th in baseball behind the Giants, Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox as of today. I have to add that I'm not confident in that number and too lazy to double check, that number just sticks out in my head for some reason.

Yep. But they would have never traded Felix while he was still on top. They know that is a great way to kill fan support and they also know his one salary is doable because of all the money it brings in. He made them relevant which helps with tickets, merchandising, and TV deals. They know what they are doing as a business they just don't care about the baseball part. I remember when Lincoln complained that about how making the playoffs loses them money. Who brings that up if even true?

I'll have to agree with you on this one. Although I will add that this was also likely a product of the delusion on behalf of the front office that Felix would be the ace of a playoff team that was just a piece or two away from contending. That King's Court shit was marketing genius because it put people in seats that otherwise would've been mostly empty.

Agreed, but I may be the one fan who believed Bavasi di the right thing signing Beltre and Sexson. I don't now if he was aloud to spend more after that or not, but as I recall those two helped increase wins by 25 wins in their 3rd year here (63 in 2004 (year before Beltre/Sexon), 69 in 2005, 78 in 2006, 88 in 2007 (3rd year here).

Too bad that Beltre lost his bat when he was with us. I'll always remember him as having the most incredible arm I've ever seen from a third baseman. I know there is a huge difference between throwing off the mound and throwing from third to first, but man he threw some damn missiles.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I’ll disagree with @seahawksfan234 and @NWinAZ I think if this group was in charge in 95, I think all (including Tino) but Randy and ARod would’ve been resigned. ARod wanted to be the highest paid player as did Junior, doesn’t seem smart to have 2 of the 3 highest paid players when you have 23 other spots to fill out. I still don’t completely fault them for not resigning Randy, he had back problems so they didn’t want a long term contract and he did. Where I blame them is because they made it public essentially burning the bridge to negotiate. I don’t think they meant it malicious but you cannot openly say stuff like that.

Since Safeco Field/The Pink opened up I don’t really think payroll has been an issue. It’s ownership making wrong decision time and again on GM’s and Managers.

I know you probably didn't read all of the essays that @NWinAZ and I were exchanging (I know I'd be too lazy to), but one of the things I was pointing out is that I don't believe payroll is an issue as of now. The Mariners likely won't be able to plausibly outspend the Yankees or Red Sox, but I do believe they'd be able to commit to a top-5 payroll in baseball.

That all being said it's so hard to say how the current ownership would handle those situations. It's a hypothetical situation that involve so many variables you'd have to write an entire book just to try to account for them all.

 

[wazzu31]

I know you probably didn't read all of the essays that @NWinAZ and I were exchanging (I know I'd be too lazy to), but one of the things I was pointing out is that I don't believe payroll is an issue as of now. The Mariners likely won't be able to plausibly outspend the Yankees or Red Sox, but I do believe they'd be able to commit to a top-5 payroll in baseball.

That all being said it's so hard to say how the current ownership would handle those situations. It's a hypothetical situation that involve so many variables you'd have to write an entire book just to try to account for them all.

The Mariners front office has the capital to keep up with the Yankees, just the problem with the Mariners is that it isn’t a destination for FA that they have to overspend or as they did with Cano they outbid themselves.

 

[NWinAZ]

Where I blame them is because they made it public essentially burning the bridge to negotiate. I don’t think they meant it malicious but you cannot openly say stuff like that.

It was leaked to drum up fan support for management for when he left. It was calculated and it worked because people still talk about this back injury that never flared up during is many Cy young years.

I’ll disagree with @seahawksfan234 and @NWinAZ I think if this group was in charge in 95, I think all (including Tino) but Randy and ARod would’ve been resigned.

Griffey took a discount so I know he would have been re-signed. I don't think they would have shelled out the money for the rest. They are just as cheap as past owners but it looks better now because of the changing scale in baseball. New ownership has invested exactly what in payroll? They inherited payroll and paid for some players to leave but those were all money saving moves.

 

[NWinAZ]

I know you probably didn't read all of the essays that @NWinAZ and I were exchanging (I know I'd be too lazy to), but one of the things I was pointing out is that I don't believe payroll is an issue as of now. The Mariners likely won't be able to plausibly outspend the Yankees or Red Sox, but I do believe they'd be able to commit to a top-5 payroll in baseball.

That all being said it's so hard to say how the current ownership would handle those situations. It's a hypothetical situation that involve so many variables you'd have to write an entire book just to try to account for them all.

The one benefit of using these young guys is that they can add payroll w/o getting into the top 5 even though I think they can afford to. Yes the salaries of the dearly departed will bump it up but that was a new ownership decision so I would hate for them to now use it as an excuse.

 

[wazzu31]

It was leaked to drum up fan support for management for when he left. It was calculated and it worked because people still talk about this back injury that never flared up during is many Cy young years.



Griffey took a discount so I know he would have been re-signed. I don't think they would have shelled out the money for the rest. They are just as cheap as past owners but it looks better now because of the changing scale in baseball. New ownership has invested exactly what in payroll? They inherited payroll and paid for some players to leave but those were all money saving moves.

I know they did it to try to get fan support. He did have some sort of back problem in the 97 offseason. I can’t really remember the specifics but there was something. Looking back it was a total mistake but I could see why they didn’t want a long term deal, I just think when they made it public there was zero chance at a short term deal either. I think they could’ve gotten a short term deal done with Randy. After watching the Randy special on MLB network he really loved being in Seattle because he was really good friends with the musicians and artists in Seattle.

Stanton and the rest of the ownership group is nearly identical, just went from minority to majority. That is why when everyone was stoked Stanton became the majority owner I didn’t understand the over excitement because it’s not like it was some new group. I guess we won’t know who is right unless they get a young core like they had in the early to mid 90’s.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Stanton and the rest of the ownership group is nearly identical, just went from minority to majority. That is why when everyone was stoked Stanton became the majority owner I didn’t understand the over excitement because it’s not like it was some new group. I guess we won’t know who is right unless they get a young core like they had in the early to mid 90’s.

Right its essentially the same thing. At least I havent been proven otherwise. Stanton makes less idiotic public comments then Lincoln did but thats about it.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The Mariners front office has the capital to keep up with the Yankees, just the problem with the Mariners is that it isn’t a destination for FA that they have to overspend or as they did with Cano they outbid themselves.

Every year players rate Seattle as one of their favorite places to play - disregarding the obvious joke that it's an easy place to win - so aside from the obvious historical ineptitude of the team and lack of national exposure, you would think that if they start showing promise it would be a favorable destination.

I assume and hope that the front office stresses this, but given the fact that Washington has no state or local income taxes, that should be another strong selling point.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The one benefit of using these young guys is that they can add payroll w/o getting into the top 5 even though I think they can afford to. Yes the salaries of the dearly departed will bump it up but that was a new ownership decision so I would hate for them to now use it as an excuse.

I'd have to assume that the approach of the franchise is to shed as much salary now as possible so they have flexibility in the future. My biggest concern is that I worry they won't use the money wisely. I don't want to see them go on a spending spree in an attempt to build the roster while disregarding the fact that at some point the key pieces will also eventually need to be paid through arbitration and contract extensions.

They're on the right path selling off vets for prospects, but that's just one piece of building a winning team. They need to: (1) Trade for the right prospects (2) Develop them (3) Not fuck up with all of the payroll flexibility we will have going forward and (4) If they build a winning team, they can't throw away prospects if they want long-term success.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I know they did it to try to get fan support. He did have some sort of back problem in the 97 offseason. I can’t really remember the specifics but there was something. Looking back it was a total mistake but I could see why they didn’t want a long term deal, I just think when they made it public there was zero chance at a short term deal either. I think they could’ve gotten a short term deal done with Randy. After watching the Randy special on MLB network he really loved being in Seattle because he was really good friends with the musicians and artists in Seattle.

Stanton and the rest of the ownership group is nearly identical, just went from minority to majority. That is why when everyone was stoked Stanton became the majority owner I didn’t understand the over excitement because it’s not like it was some new group. I guess we won’t know who is right unless they get a young core like they had in the early to mid 90’s.

After hearing all of the anecdotal stories about Randy's... "Personality," I'm somewhat surprised he had any friends.

Love him as a player and appreciate everything he did for us, but he was an absolute prick from everything I've heard about him from those who had interactions with him.

 

[wazzu31]

Every year players rate Seattle as one of their favorite places to play - disregarding the obvious joke that it's an easy place to win - so aside from the obvious historical ineptitude of the team and lack of national exposure, you would think that if they start showing promise it would be a favorable destination.

I assume and hope that the front office stresses this, but given the fact that Washington has no state or local income taxes, that should be another strong selling point.

Until the Mariners show they are a contender they will always have to over pay. I love the area but it isn’t exactly great for players with families in their offseason. That was what Tony Bennett joked about how he recruited kids to Pullman. He always bring them out to football games or visits September and October but come November through signing day he went to them.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Until the Mariners show they are a contender they will always have to over pay. I love the area but it isn’t exactly great for players with families in their offseason. That was what Tony Bennett joked about how he recruited kids to Pullman. He always bring them out to football games or visits September and October but come November through signing day he went to them.

Not contradicting you, but do you really think the weather makes that big of a difference?

I'm pretty biased having lived in the PNW my entire life aside from 6 months combined in Europe, but it has never bothered me.

 

[NWinAZ]

Not contradicting you, but do you really think the weather makes that big of a difference?

I'm pretty biased having lived in the PNW my entire life aside from 6 months combined in Europe, but it has never bothered me.

I have lived in Southern Cal for 4 years, AZ for 8, WA for remaining 40 and if I had pro athlete money I would pick somewhere other than WA. That is just me of course, but AZ and Cali were just so much cleaner in the areas I lived. Seattle has always looked dingy to me like Portland.

 

[wazzu31]

Not contradicting you, but do you really think the weather makes that big of a difference?

I'm pretty biased having lived in the PNW my entire life aside from 6 months combined in Europe, but it has never bothered me.

Most FA’s have families and our winter weather isn’t great. It’s the opposite for NFL and NBA free agents. Our weather is great in their offseason. It doesn’t bother me in the least but to me, but I’m also not concerned about uprooting the family and the most time I’d spend with them it is raining or overcast. Of course become a perennial power and it won’t really matter like Boston, NY, Philly and Chicago.

All the guys in the minors I knew were single so didn’t have to worry but generally if you are going to sign a big contract you will live in that area.

 

[wazzu31]

Right its essentially the same thing. At least I havent been proven otherwise. Stanton makes less idiotic public comments then Lincoln did but thats about it.

Lincoln didn’t know a lick about baseball and Armstrong didn’t know much better but Junior really liked him so he got credibility that he didn’t earn. I still don’t understand how an absentee owner kept those two in charge. A normal boss doesn’t have an issue firing someone he doesn’t know or has any idea on how to do his/her job but numbers don’t lie.

 

[wazzu31]

I have lived in Southern Cal for 4 years, AZ for 8, WA for remaining 40 and if I had pro athlete money I would pick somewhere other than WA. That is just me of course, but AZ and Cali were just so much cleaner in the areas I lived. Seattle has always looked dingy to me like Portland.

Well just like Portland, Seattle has its amazing wealthy areas then it has undesirables. Portland at least is smart enough to keep the Rose Square clean, Seattle Center is now a dump with an idiotic renovation on an arena that makes no sense.

But pro athlete with a family was what I was mostly referring to. A young single dude can chase money. It would be so much easier if it were the 60’s-80’s where a player had a family at home but road wives so he didn’t have to get anything other than a cheap apartment for the season.