Dipoto Gets Extension

[SeattleCoug]

It's possible we could've made the post-season with a better manager, but I don't think it would've meant much because the team vastly outperformed their talent level.

With Diaz sporting a 5.50 ERA with the Mets (that's not a typo), Robinson Cano hitting .239/.287/.361 (yes that's AVG/OBP/SLG) along with Kelenic and Dunn tearing it up at the minors, this could go down as one of the better trades in Mariners history.

Agreed, they weren't good enough last year regardless of their record. When you want to contend, you actually need to commit to it. Not hope stuff like Felix might return to form even though he hasnt for 3 years

 

[SeattleCoug]

That is not the spending I am talking about. Teams spend based on revenue. They get to a place where they are happy with what they have at the price they want. Fine. But when things are going better the expected, the real owners spend on a player or two extra to tip the scales their way. Mariners have never done that not even in those playoff years. In 1995 we got Andy bones because they didn't want to spend any more. Lou quit because they wouldn't spend extra to tip the scales. Same in 1997, 1998, 2001. Even in non-playoff years when we were still hanging around they didn't open up the wallets. People say they spent $240M on Cano so that shows they are willing to spend. No, that shows they were still outside the top 5, and probably top 10, in spending and bought a draw to keep them relevant. Remember when we got Cano the next obvious question was who do we pair with him to make us legit? The answer was nobody.

It has been and always will be the willingness to spend. And the whole Felix thing was marketing and not a signing to win. After you have your young ace tied up, don't you surround him with value? We ended the payroll run right then and there. All teams spend some, but the great ones spend extra when the time is right.

Yep that was the more annoying anything. The Cano thing by itself didnt show this team was serious about contending for anything. That lineup still had so many holes and outside of Felix it wasnt like they had major money tied into anything at that time. They brought in Nelson Cruz one year too late. He could have made a massive difference for that 2014, but instead in true Mariner passion they brought in Corey Hart and (hoped like always)to get lucky of course they didnt because they never do. But yeah that just goes to show they have never been about committing or going all in on anything

 

[NWinAZ]

Yep that was the more annoying anything. The Cano thing by itself didnt show this team was serious about contending for anything. That lineup still had so many holes and outside of Felix it wasnt like they had major money tied into anything at that time. They brought in Nelson Cruz one year too late. He could have made a massive difference for that 2014, but instead in true Mariner passion they brought in Corey Hart and (hoped like always)to get lucky of course they didnt because they never do. But yeah that just goes to show they have never been about committing or going all in on anything

That 100% accurately sums up the point I was trying to make but couldn't nail. You did it for me.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Agreed, they weren't good enough last year regardless of their record. When you want to contend, you actually need to commit to it. Not hope stuff like Felix might return to form even though he hasnt for 3 years

I think it started to appear two years ago as if Felix had reached the point of no return and that his contract would be a burden. It's too bad to see such a great player become one of the biggest liabilities on the mound in the game.

 

[Dolemite censored]

Okay went to the game today and I was ready to run on the field and beat the shit out of Scotty Boy:

Dee ropes a triple Smith comes to the plate one out why was Smith not bunting down 1st base line where the first baseman was playing back?

Then the foul for a homer why in the hell did Scotty not come out of that dug out and light that whole umpiring crew up? I mean show some gawd damn balls that you believe in your kids get them fired up by watching you getting tossed for fighting for them!

-100 for attending a Mariner's game expecting to see good baseball.

 

[Dolemite censored]

I think it started to appear two years ago as if Felix had reached the point of no return and that his contract would be a burden. It's too bad to see such a great player become one of the biggest liabilities on the mound in the game.

They should have traded Felix 3 years ago.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That is not the spending I am talking about. Teams spend based on revenue.

I must've misunderstood you on this point. I will say that basing spending on revenue is stupid. MLB franchise value increases at a huge clip. A team like the Mariners could bleed money and the owners in the end will still make a lot of money because the team has increased in value so much. The team was purchased for $1.2B in 2016 and is now worth $1.6B and increased 9% last year. Since purchasing the team, they've made $400m. They shouldn't give a shit about their bottom line with that type of appreciation on their investment.

They get to a place where they are happy with what they have at the price they want. Fine. But when things are going better the expected, the real owners spend on a player or two extra to tip the scales their way. Mariners have never done that not even in those playoff years. In 1995 we got Andy bones because they didn't want to spend any more. Lou quit because they wouldn't spend extra to tip the scales. Same in 1997, 1998, 2001. Even in non-playoff years when we were still hanging around they didn't open up the wallets. People say they spent $240M on Cano so that shows they are willing to spend. No, that shows they were still outside the top 5, and probably top 10, in spending and bought a draw to keep them relevant. Remember when we got Cano the next obvious question was who do we pair with him to make us legit? The answer was nobody.

Unfortunately I think that this has been one of the biggest flaws with the team the past two decades. The front office will spend on a player or two, trade away some prospects for another guy under the assumption that it'll tip the scales and it hasn't worked. They went out and spent money and prospects without a core to really build around. I'm not saying I'm happy with the current ownership, but ironically I do believe that today if we had Randy, Griffey, A-Rod, etc. the current ownership wouldn't given them the money they wanted. That's up for debate and I know there are other things in consideration, but I do think today they'd pay enough to keep those guys.

It has been and always will be the willingness to spend. And the whole Felix thing was marketing and not a signing to win. After you have your young ace tied up, don't you surround him with value? We ended the payroll run right then and there. All teams spend some, but the great ones spend extra when the time is right.

Once again that leads back to all the poor decisions with this franchise. Hindsight being 20/20 the Mariners should sold on Felix and whoever else they had back then. Hell even if Felix was still pitching at a dominant level, I don't think that would've changed much in the years we were paying him $20m+ a year. Even last year had Felix been his old self we could've made the playoffs, but I think it would've been short lived due to all the other holes on the roster.

I'll close this essay by saying I think we agree that the times in which we've spent have been less than optimal and the previous ownership should've opened up their wallets when we actually had a decent team. Going back to the Bill Bavasi days (you'll have to forgive me because that's when I was a teenager and started following the team closely) I think the fault falls on the general managers for their roster mistakes. You can blame the ownership for hiring them, but in the end it falls on the GM to make prudent decisions and since Bavasi was the GM they had the money to spend but didn't use it well.

 

[seahawksfan234]

They should have traded Felix 3 years ago.

Funny you said that since I just posted about how even if Felix was pitching at a low 3 ERA today, it still would've only been enough to make us a fringe contender IMO.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That 100% accurately sums up the point I was trying to make but couldn't nail. You did it for me.

It's funny that we're even able to find stuff to debate over because we all agree with the bottom line that this franchise is a dumpster fire that we can't get away from.

On the bright side if they ever win a World Series, I can't imagine how sweet it would be after all these years of suffering.

 

[mcnabb7542]

-100 for attending a Mariner's game expecting to see good baseball.

Hey numbnuts when I want your 2 cents I’ll fart in my hand and ask you!

 

[mcnabb7542]

It's funny that we're even able to find stuff to debate over because we all agree with the bottom line that this franchise is a dumpster fire that we can't get away from.

On the bright side if they ever win a World Series, I can't imagine how sweet it would be after all these years of suffering.

The party would never end!
You can take the Sonics and Hawks and multiple that by 100!

 

[Dolemite censored]

Mariners continue to be the development team for the Yankees...

Hey numbnuts when I want your 2 cents I’ll fart in my hand and ask you!

-200 for defending Mariners baseball.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I think it started to appear two years ago as if Felix had reached the point of no return and that his contract would be a burden. It's too bad to see such a great player become one of the biggest liabilities on the mound in the game.

Yea Felix's decline started in 2015 and its just gotten progressively worse since. After just missing the CY Young in 2014 with a fWAR of 5.6 and a FIP of 2.56 his numbers got progressively worse the next years to 2.7 fWAR/3.72 FIP in 2015, 1.1/4.63 in 2016 to 0.4/5.02 in 2017. Considering his age and recent injuries, it was fair to summarize that his best days were well behind him. Yet coming in 2018, a year where they were supposed to be contending, Dipoto still was pegging him as a front of the rotation pitcher on a contending team. Contending and hoping to get lucky have proven not to be the same thing

 

[seattlefan75]

The bottom line is he was hired to make the current situation a playoff team. He wasn't hired to do a complete rebuild or else they would have gone with someone else. He had 3 years to make the playoffs and failed so yes he failed at his job. That's a fact.

Now to save themselves from admitting to another failed GM they are letting him rebuild even though he has never really shown he can do that. Because of that we have to give him a pass for at least another two years. I dont think Servais should get that same pass but I fear thats what will happen

That is the most unrealistic expectation in the history of sports literally in all of sports you as the owner are about to hire a GM and you are telling him to take your team that lost 86 games with your best player being an old DH in Nelson Cruz and Felix Hernandez which to everyone knew that he was getting worse by the season and in one year turn that into a playoff team? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and how is Dipoto supposed to do that? Like I said unless we have a mega payroll give out 6-8 year contracts and over pay for free agents this is impossible there is no human walking on this earth that could have done that

 

[seattlefan75]

Some of you guys realize that when the astros hired Jeff Luhnow as the GM back in 2011 they had 4 seasons 3 of which they won like 55 games now they have a stacked team and prospects coming up left and right but by some of you guys philosophy he should have made the playoffs those years. Some of you people have the most unrealistic expectations this isnt video games this takes time go watch our prospects in AA

 

[Duders]

After 18 ho hum seasons, can you blame us? I see what you're saying but when you've been through it so many times, the patience does get shorter season after season I guess.

 

[wazzu31]

Some of you guys realize that when the astros hired Jeff Luhnow as the GM back in 2011 they had 4 seasons 3 of which they won like 55 games now they have a stacked team and prospects coming up left and right but by some of you guys philosophy he should have made the playoffs those years. Some of you people have the most unrealistic expectations this isnt video games this takes time go watch our prospects in AA

How is it unrealistic? Jerry wasn’t hired to tear it down or he would’ve done it when Seager, Cano and Felix all still had trade value. What do the Astros have to do with Jerry? Jerry kept raising payroll in his first 3 years, the Astros went full rebuild.

 

[NWinAZ]

I must've misunderstood you on this point. I will say that basing spending on revenue is stupid. MLB franchise value increases at a huge clip. A team like the Mariners could bleed money and the owners in the end will still make a lot of money because the team has increased in value so much. The team was purchased for $1.2B in 2016 and is now worth $1.6B and increased 9% last year. Since purchasing the team, they've made $400m. They shouldn't give a shit about their bottom line with that type of appreciation on their investment.

You are dead on.

but ironically I do believe that today if we had Randy, Griffey, A-Rod, etc. the current ownership wouldn't given them the money they wanted. That's up for debate and I know there are other things in consideration, but I do think today they'd pay enough to keep those guys.

I don't think they would. I think they would Griffey because he was the most marketable and the rest would be gone just like before. Nothing with this franchise has shown me otherwise. Probably never will.

Once again that leads back to all the poor decisions with this franchise. Hindsight being 20/20 the Mariners should sold on Felix and whoever else they had back then. Hell even if Felix was still pitching at a dominant level, I don't think that would've changed much in the years we were paying him $20m+ a year. Even last year had Felix been his old self we could've made the playoffs, but I think it would've been short lived due to all the other holes on the roster.

Yep. But they would have never traded Felix while he was still on top. They know that is a great way to kill fan support and they also know his one salary is doable because of all the money it brings in. He made them relevant which helps with tickets, merchandising, and TV deals. They know what they are doing as a business they just don't care about the baseball part. I remember when Lincoln complained that about how making the playoffs loses them money. Who brings that up if even true?

I'll close this essay by saying I think we agree that the times in which we've spent have been less than optimal and the previous ownership should've opened up their wallets when we actually had a decent team. Going back to the Bill Bavasi days (you'll have to forgive me because that's when I was a teenager and started following the team closely) I think the fault falls on the general managers for their roster mistakes. You can blame the ownership for hiring them, but in the end it falls on the GM to make prudent decisions and since Bavasi was the GM they had the money to spend but didn't use it well.

Agreed, but I may be the one fan who believed Bavasi di the right thing signing Beltre and Sexson. I don't now if he was aloud to spend more after that or not, but as I recall those two helped increase wins by 25 wins in their 3rd year here (63 in 2004 (year before Beltre/Sexon), 69 in 2005, 78 in 2006, 88 in 2007 (3rd year here).

 

[NWinAZ]

That is the most unrealistic expectation in the history of sports literally in all of sports you as the owner are about to hire a GM and you are telling him to take your team that lost 86 games with your best player being an old DH in Nelson Cruz and Felix Hernandez which to everyone knew that he was getting worse by the season and in one year turn that into a playoff team? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and how is Dipoto supposed to do that? Like I said unless we have a mega payroll give out 6-8 year contracts and over pay for free agents this is impossible there is no human walking on this earth that could have done that

You do realize that in his first year we finished 3 games out of the wildcard and that is with a 10-18 June record? So I guess he had some talent to start with. I guess he did the near impossible after all.

And M's were 13th in payroll that year $122M behind the highest payroll team. Maybe a couple real players added might have made up for those 3 games.

 

[wazzu31]

I’ll disagree with @seahawksfan234 and @NWinAZ I think if this group was in charge in 95, I think all (including Tino) but Randy and ARod would’ve been resigned. ARod wanted to be the highest paid player as did Junior, doesn’t seem smart to have 2 of the 3 highest paid players when you have 23 other spots to fill out. I still don’t completely fault them for not resigning Randy, he had back problems so they didn’t want a long term contract and he did. Where I blame them is because they made it public essentially burning the bridge to negotiate. I don’t think they meant it malicious but you cannot openly say stuff like that.

Since Safeco Field/The Pink opened up I don’t really think payroll has been an issue. It’s ownership making wrong decision time and again on GM’s and Managers.