Wilson going to the Broncos

[JMR]

Well I do think that having that 20 something million in cap space would be helpful for this year. Unless PC/JS are seriously planning to intentionally tank in which case they should both be summarily fired immediately.

But we wouldn't have that 20M in cap space in either scenario. RW was going to count $37M against the cap if he were on the team, and trading him is less of a hit for '22 and then totally off the books for '23.

 

[JMR]

They might as well trade Lockett and Metcalf What is the point of keeping either of them? Metcalf is going to want to GTFO after this season anyway.

Metcalf is the first person I thought of when I heard the trade news, at least in terms of what the next most valuable trade piece on the team is. He will be in for a HUGE payday next off-season, and what's the point of giving him that deal here if we have no QB? You might as well trade him too and get as much as you can now while his value is still high (and while your team will suck in the near term anyway).

 

[returnofjakedog]

I think the Rodgers deal was just coincidence. Wilson has 2 years left on his deal.

Yes, but that means the extension comes next offseason. If you wait until then, his trade value goes down.

Not saying that it was the sole reason or that they weren't shopping him before but the prospect of such a large payday certainly could have greased the wheels.

Rodgers $50 million per year deal chews up close to 25% of GB's cap. Add Devanta Adams' $20 million franchise tag and it is 35% on 2 players. The Seahawks could have looked at that and decided it was not a route they were willing to go with Wilson and Metcalf.

 

[flyerhawk]

The best example I can think of is when the Colts cut Peyton Manning after his neck injury, had the #1 pick because they were terrible the year PM was hurt, and had the fortune of drafting Andrew Luck. They got as far as the AFCC.

The Patriots damn near did it this year.

But I think your point is clear. The worst problem you can have in the NFL is not having a good QB, and we just voluntarily brought that problem upon ourselves (notwithstanding the possibility that RW demanded the trade).

The Colts got VERY lucky to draft Luck. A couple of bounces the other way and they are looking at Robert Griffin or neither.

 

[JMR]

Don't you think if he really wanted to stay in Seattle, he would've waived his no trade clause agreement? I'm thinking he was wanting out regardles so Seattle pulled the trigger now since they wouldn't had been able to extend him... Hard to be pissed and leave the Hawks over this if this is the case...

Ah dude, cmon..... If you're RW and then team comes and asks you if you'll waive your no trade clause if they find a dance partner, don't you think that changes your mindset even if 10 minutes before that you really wanted to stay? The idea that he didn't use his no-trade to veto the deal is proof he wanted to leave is silly. If a team doesn't want me, I no longer want them!

 

[JMR]

The Colts got VERY lucky to draft Luck. A couple of bounces the other way and they are looking at Robert Griffin or neither.

Totally agree. But it did happen, so it's an example of a team moving on from a top QB and becoming a contender soon after. Not saying it's a good bet, but it did happen.

And I think the Hawks were probably even luckier in that draft getting RW in rnd 3.

 

[JMR]

I haven't predicted many Seattle draft picks in recent years, but I wouldn't be surprised if they go Malik Willis from Liberty, at this point.

So my main reservation with Malik Willis, and maybe it's irrational, is that I'm an Army fan (obvious since it's my alma mater) and watched the game vs Liberty this year...and Army won and it wasn't even close. Army doesn't get the top high school talent in the land or anything (same can be said for Liberty I suppose), so don't we think that a true NFL caliber QB talent should be able to mop the floor with the likes of Army? It was 31-3 at one point! He's clearly talented, but I just have a hard time getting past the fact that his team got smoked by a bunch of guys who have a future in boots and not cleats.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I think the dead money implications here don't mean much for 2 main reasons: 1) we're taking a huge step back this season no matter what happens from here, and 2) those dead contracts will be off the books a year from now. On top of that, this team still has more cap room for '22 than the vast majority of other teams.

True. But it just emphasizes "full rebuild mode", which means they are prepared to suck this next year.

 

[JMR]

They filled exactly zero needs with the players. Useless QB, low leverage position good player and the type of DE we get at the end of every free agency. 4 lotto tickets we've been poor at capitalizing on, only one of which is highly valuable. Not getting either Surtain or Chubb (young, proven assets at a roster-hole position) in this deal should have made it a non-starter

The trade was about the picks, not the players (though I do think Fant has massive talent). Two 1st rounders + 2 2nds (which value-wise can be the equivalent of a 1st) is a decent mount. It's still not a trade I make if I don't have to, but this is much better than a 2nd & 5th the Colts got for Marshall Faulk.

 

[JMR]

True. But it just emphasizes "full rebuild mode", which means they are prepared to suck this next year.

Oh yeah, sorta like having sex with a gorilla. Prepared or not, it's happening.

 

[JMR]

So basically the Seahawks paid millions to get rid of one of the best QB's in the league?

For 2022, the Hawks could have Russell Wilson and use up $37M in cap space or not have RW and use up $26M plus get all the draft picks in return. They save $11M in cap space this year, and next year his contract is totally off the books. It's not a new cap concept.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

But that's the thing. Teams DON'T get rid of high level QBs.

The Redksins dumped Kirk Cousins and the are STILL searching in vain for a QB. The Lions remain lost at sea with no hope of recovery. The Colts haven't recovered from Andrew Luck retiring despite having quite a bit of talent. The Steelers are about to wander into that wilderness. The Broncos never recovered from Peyton retiring.

I'm sure that the Packers would love to get rid of the Aaron Rodgers headaches and not spend 50 million on him. But Jordan Love is not the answer.

Can't talk about how hard it is to find a QB unless you bring up the Jets and Dolphins.

Jets - since Chad Pennington left (2008), they've spent THREE #1s (1.2 Wilson, 1.3 Darnold, 1.5 Sanchez) and THREE #2s (Hackenburg, G.Smith, Clemens) on Qbs. Still don't know what they have in Wilson.

Miami - Miami has been trying to find a good QB since Marino retired in 2000. They've spent TWO #1s (1.8 Tannehill, 1.5 Tua), and THREE #2s (Beck, Henne, P.White). And they still don't know what they have in Tua.

How long have the Bears been trying to find "the guy"? Grossman and Cutler were the best they've had in decades. The Saints and Steelers are about to find out how hard it is.

Like pimpin', finding a PB-level Qb ain't easy.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

So my main reservation with Malik Willis, and maybe it's irrational, is that I'm an Army fan (obvious since it's my alma mater) and watched the game vs Liberty this year...and Army won and it wasn't even close. Army doesn't get the top high school talent in the land or anything (same can be said for Liberty I suppose), so don't we think that a true NFL caliber QB talent should be able to mop the floor with the likes of Army? It was 31-3 at one point! He's clearly talented, but I just have a hard time getting past the fact that his team got smoked by a bunch of guys who have a future in boots and not cleats.

Yah that is interesting for sure. I guess any given Saturday.... or Sunday. Maybe they'll go Corral in the second frame. Apparently there's a strong link from Seattle to him.

This draft definitely favors DL or even 3-4 style linebackers... so SEEMS like we should do that with our first... and there's some decent corners in there too... but Seattle does such WEIRD things with their 1st rounders in the past I dunno what they'll do.

 

[JMR]

I agree that if Russ was the one pushing for this to happen behind the scenes, then I have a different view of this. However, if this was a matter of Pete or Russ and they picked Pete then I have no faith that this team has any clue what they are doing.

Pretty much exactly my "worst case" scenario is on how the trade came to be. If this was Jody Allen wanting to keep Pete at the expense of Russell, we are phuqued long term.

If this was all pushed by Russ, I think there's a way he can come out and say that w/o sounding selfish about it. "Hey, I am so glad and grateful to have been a Seahawk for a full decade. It's been the best 10 years of my life, and I will always consider myself a Hawk. At this stage of my career and given where the team is wanting to go with Pete & John, we all felt it was the best for both sides if we went in different directions, so I supported the team pursuing a trade that would give them the best footing going forward and also setting me up for success in another great organization." Something like that....HOWEVER, it could also be viewed as a bit fake since he just so recently said how he wanted to stay in Seattle and win 3 more SBs here. Of course, the FO just as recently said they weren't interested in trading him when clearly they were open to the idea.

Anyone who believes that PC/JS can run it back because they were successful once is being willfully naive. The Seahawks have 10 years of success because they hit the lottery with a 3rd round pick. While I generally bristle when I hear people talk about how bad the Seahawks drafting has been, because it is largely ignorant about the statistical probabilities involved with drafts, it is also not reasonable to believe that the Seahawks can replicate their 2011/2012 drafts. Leaving aside that the Seahawks had a great deal of inside information at the time because of Pete's time at USC, EVERY team regresses to the mean.

At this point, I think we just have to look at the draft success early on in the PC/JS era as luck...or like how a broken clock is right 2x a day. I think JS is good at making draft day trades to make draft capital out of thin air, but that's really about it. I am less impressed with his talent eye with each passing year. I don't have high confidence that we'll be pleased by what comes of these 4 really high picks we just got in return for Russ.

I guess you could argue that the Seahawks will be more focused on building the team and less focused on win now moves that push them to do things like trade for Adams. But ultimately they made that choice. No one forced them to trade for Adams. And they made that trade because their DL was so bad that they were hoping that they could create a wildcard with Adams as a pass rusher.

I like Jamal Adams is a stud. In hindsight I wouldn't have made that trade, but I also am baffled by how we used him this past season. Hopefully the new DC gets him back to what he's good at and doesn't try helping him prove his deep cover skills. Maybe it wasn't a great trade, but he's still a good player who should be put in position to best help the team.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Can't talk about how hard it is to find a QB unless you bring up the Jets and Dolphins.

Jets - since Chad Pennington left (2008), they've spent THREE #1s (1.2 Wilson, 1.3 Darnold, 1.5 Sanchez) and THREE #2s (Hackenburg, G.Smith, Clemens) on Qbs. Still don't know what they have in Wilson.

Miami - Miami has been trying to find a good QB since Marino retired in 2000. They've spent TWO #1s (1.8 Tannehill, 1.5 Tua), and THREE #2s (Beck, Henne, P.White). And they still don't know what they have in Tua.

How long have the Bears been trying to find "the guy"? Grossman and Cutler were the best they've had in decades.

Like pimpin', finding a PB-level Qb ain't easy.

We are Seahawk fans. 45 years and Wilson was the only true franchise QB we've ever had on the team.

After Wilson, there was 2 years with Moon, and the next best group is Hasselbeck, Dave Krieg, and Zorn. Kitna wasn't completely horrible, and maybe Friesz can squeeze in at mediocre.
After those guys the list is pretty pathetic (TJack, McGwire, Stouffer, Gelbaugh, Mirer, Huard, Dilfer, Whitehurst, Wallace, etc, etc)

Yep. We know how tough it is to find a good QB. I don't like the odds going forward but maybe PC and JS can sueprise us? I have my doubts.

 

[flyerhawk]

Metcalf is the first person I thought of when I heard the trade news, at least in terms of what the next most valuable trade piece on the team is. He will be in for a HUGE payday next off-season, and what's the point of giving him that deal here if we have no QB? You might as well trade him too and get as much as you can now while his value is still high (and while your team will suck in the near term anyway).

Ultimately, what they do with Metcalf will tell us what they are thinking for this season.

 

[flyerhawk]

Totally agree. But it did happen, so it's an example of a team moving on from a top QB and becoming a contender soon after. Not saying it's a good bet, but it did happen.

And I think the Hawks were probably even luckier in that draft getting RW in rnd 3.

Oh sure. It can happen. But it's like the guy using the lottery for his retirement strategy.

 

[flyerhawk]

Can't talk about how hard it is to find a QB unless you bring up the Jets and Dolphins.

Jets - since Chad Pennington left (2008), they've spent THREE #1s (1.2 Wilson, 1.3 Darnold, 1.5 Sanchez) and THREE #2s (Hackenburg, G.Smith, Clemens) on Qbs. Still don't know what they have in Wilson.

Miami - Miami has been trying to find a good QB since Marino retired in 2000. They've spent TWO #1s (1.8 Tannehill, 1.5 Tua), and THREE #2s (Beck, Henne, P.White). And they still don't know what they have in Tua.

How long have the Bears been trying to find "the guy"? Grossman and Cutler were the best they've had in decades. The Saints and Steelers are about to find out how hard it is.

Like pimpin', finding a PB-level Qb ain't easy.

Yup. Add the Bengals who finally hit the jackpot with Burrow after 30 YEARS of lackluster QB play. Or the Giants or are in the middle of it. Or the Redskins who had one good year of QB play in 20 years.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The prospect of having to search for a QB is certainly daunting. Depressing even for some. On the other side it appeared that at best Seahawks were a borderline playoff team with RW with no means to really go beyond that and the last few seasons was like the groundhog day movie where every season was a repeat of the season before . Except the team became just a hair less good every year and it was looking like making the playoffs going forward might be beyond their means as the teams in the division had become playoff caliber teams ( or Super Bowl caliber) and the Seahawks only hope was to magically find gems over looked by the rest of the league in FA and the draft both.
I was always in the camp that making the playoffs was cause for happiness but I started feeling that making the playoffs was going to stop happening going forward and for once started thinking a rebuild needed to happen. Now it's happening, for better or worse. I find myself energized by events. I'm now excited about the draft, I'm now excited about the FA market. I'm really excited about 8 draft picks and the 142 million in cap space in 2023 as well as 2 1st and 2nd round picks in 2023.
Yes I do feel extremely nervous about the QB position and how it will or will not be solved. Reminds me of the post Hasselbeck era. My goodness having Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst at QB was plum painful and everyone knew they weren't the answer. It did have me looking at every QB in the upcoming draft though and the rest of the roster was looking better and better. Those were actually exciting times despite the question at QB and had me looking forward to the draft, also the following season schedule, the games and football in general. I can say that I had lost a lot of that the last few seasons. The draft was meh, the following season was crossing your fingers and hoping for the team to over achieve and making the playoffs and a quick exit seemed like the best you could hope for. Football was starting to lose it's appeal for me, that's done now and FOOTBALL IS BACK AND EXCITING AGAIN.

 

[flyerhawk]

The prospect of having to search for a QB is certainly daunting. Depressing even for some. On the other side it appeared that at best Seahawks were a borderline playoff team with RW with no means to really go beyond that and the last few seasons was like the groundhog day movie where every season was a repeat of the season before . Except the team became just a hair less good every year and it was looking like making the playoffs going forward might be beyond their means as the teams in the division had become playoff caliber teams ( or Super Bowl caliber) and the Seahawks only hope was to magically find gems over looked by the rest of the league in FA and the draft both.
I was always in the camp that making the playoffs was cause for happiness but I started feeling that making the playoffs was going to stop happening going forward and for once started thinking a rebuild needed to happen. Now it's happening, for better or worse. I find myself energized by events. I'm now excited about the draft, I'm now excited about the FA market. I'm really excited about 8 draft picks and the 142 million in cap space in 2023 as well as 2 1st and 2nd round picks in 2023.
Yes I do feel extremely nervous about the QB position and how it will or will not be solved. Reminds me of the post Hasselbeck era. My goodness having Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst at QB was plum painful and everyone knew they weren't the answer. It did have me looking at every QB in the upcoming draft though and the rest of the roster was looking better and better. Those were actually exciting times despite the question at QB and had me looking forward to the draft, also the following season schedule, the games and football in general. I can say that I had lost a lot of that the last few seasons. The draft was meh, the following season was crossing your fingers and hoping for the team to over achieve and making the playoffs and a quick exit seemed like the best you could hope for. Football was starting to lose it's appeal for me, that's done now and FOOTBALL IS BACK AND EXCITING AGAIN.

Unless of course the problem wasn't Russell Wilson but Pete Carroll.

"Teams want good players, fans want good draft picks" rings pretty true to me.