POLL Top 10 poll #15: #15 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

possible... But my point about him was that if he wasnt THE iron man, he would probably be a low end HOFer... below Jeter....

although, i do remember when he played, and thinking that him never missing games actually hurt his stats... unlike Gehrig, a FIrst baseman, who was able to play at an elite level while never missing games... i dont think Ripken really could...

i dont remember if that was an actual thing people talked about when he played or not... but i do remember thinking that...

I remember there being quite a bit of talk about that when there was still a few years left on the streak. It was a knock that was talked about.

 

[Cedrique]

Guerrero was later than I thought. Not sure why I remembered him on the 94 expos.

I thought you were talking about Pedro Guerrero lol. He was a little lower on the list than the other guys. A good player nonetheless...

 

[DHoey]

Mine is based on benchmarks and onfield. Yours is based on feels.

Really? Benchmarks and onfield, A-ROD is the greatest shortstop of all time. Your opinion is 100% feels.

 

[calsnowskier]

I started this project on Nov 19.

2 and a half months later, and we are only at #15. And we getting hundreds of posts per day.

Damn, we really are old-fuck baseball fans. No way could Gen-Z basketball fans keep up a project like this at this pace for so long.

 

[calsnowskier]

Really? Benchmarks and onfield, A-ROD is the greatest shortstop of all time. Your opinion is 100% feels.

He was found to break the #2 rule of the game while every eye in the sports world was on it. That is a pretty fucking clear benchmark that he failed.

 

[calsnowskier]

I thought you were talking about Pedro Guerrero lol. He was a little lower on the list than the other guys. A good player nonetheless...

My first thought was Pedro as well…

LOL


Fuck the Dodgers!

 

[Cedrique]

I remember there being quite a bit of talk about that when there was still a few years left on the streak. It was a knock that was talked about.

Yeah I remember people talking about that a lot and somehow it got to the point where the casual fan would hear that and think he's not that great a player. Speaking of unicorns though, when he came into the league he was kind of a monster compared to the Shortstops of the 60's and 70's. The previous guy with the Orioles, Mark Belanger was one of the best ever but he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag. So even though he wasn't leading the league in offensive categories, he was the best offensive shortstop anyone had seen in a long long time. (in addition to being an all time great defensively)

Then A-Rod said "hold my beer"

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah I remember people talking about that a lot and somehow it got to the point where the casual fan would hear that and think he's not that great a player. Speaking of unicorns though, when he came into the league he was kind of a monster compared to the Shortstops of the 60's and 70's. The previous guy with the Orioles, Mark Belanger was one of the best ever but he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag. So even though he wasn't leading the league in offensive categories, he was the best offensive shortstop anyone had seen in a long long time. (in addition to being an all time great defensively)

Then A-Rod said "hold my beer"

More like hold my syringe

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yeah I remember people talking about that a lot and somehow it got to the point where the casual fan would hear that and think he's not that great a player. Speaking of unicorns though, when he came into the league he was kind of a monster compared to the Shortstops of the 60's and 70's. The previous guy with the Orioles, Mark Belanger was one of the best ever but he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag. So even though he wasn't leading the league in offensive categories, he was the best offensive shortstop anyone had seen in a long long time. (in addition to being an all time great defensively)

Then A-Rod said "hold my beer"

Good point. He was the best hitting SS we saw in a while. That’s probably why he got a little overrated.

But it’s hard to go crazy for the best we saw in a while when there were plenty of good offensive SS in baseball history before him. Sure all those were before expansion.

But the AROD, Jeter, Nomar SS explosion in the mid 90s also probably hurt ripken’s title of best in a long time.

 

[chappee11]

Good point. He was the best hitting SS we saw in a while. That’s probably why he got a little overrated.

But it’s hard to go crazy for the best we saw in a while when there were plenty of good offensive SS in baseball history before him. Sure all those were before expansion.

But the AROD, Jeter, Nomar SS explosion in the mid 90s also probably hurt ripken’s title of best in a long time.

Don’t forget about Miguel Tejada. He was absolutely elite before eventually becoming yet another PED footnote.

That was the ultimate boom time for SS in MLB.

 

[calsnowskier]

If we didn’t see Trammell, Aurilia, Larkin, ARod, HanRam or some others, than I don’t think he would be considered over rated at all.

I would argue that he made the league realize that big, good hitters COULD play SS. And play it well. The tiny, no-bat Dominican SS was not the only kind of SS that could exist.

In this, he was a trailblazer and could be considered to be UNDERrated.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Don’t forget about Miguel Tejada. He was absolutely elite before eventually becoming yet another PED footnote.

That was the ultimate boom time for SS in MLB.

Didn’t forget him. But he was after those three. He was not part of the big 3. But his mvp season with Oakland was pretty damn great.

 

[Cedrique]

Don’t forget about Miguel Tejada. He was absolutely elite before eventually becoming yet another PED footnote.

That was the ultimate boom time for SS in MLB.

I guess we're back there now though. De La Cruz, Bobby Witt, Gunnar Henderson, etc.

 

[Cedrique]

This is too exciting. I may have to create an alt just so I can "play god"

 

[broncosmitty]

again... i dont care who anyone votes for... but when you know the group is voting against someone... and you vote for them, then thats why we are gonna get Griffey at 15... if you Clemens people change your vote to RJ, we have a good chance for Griffey not to win... and i dont think anyone minds Johnson as SP#2, whether they really think that or not...

Johnson is the #2 left handed pitcher. Not that I’d freak out if we rank him second best pitcher. But he shouldn’t be.

 

[broncosmitty]

A bit surprised Maddux threw more innings than Clemens

Didn’t waste pitches going deep into counts.

 

[LHG]

So far, the only poster to defend a vote for Griffey . . . didn't vote for Griffey.

 

[calsnowskier]

This is too exciting. I may have to create an alt just so I can "play god"

About 20 years ago, there was a +/- game on the ESPN MLB gen board. I created an alt for that, and the Giants ended up winning that dumb game.

That was the only time I ever created an alt. And I have always felt dirty for doing that.

 

[Cedrique]

About 20 years ago, there was a +/- game on the ESPN MLB gen board. I created an alt for that, and the Giants ended up winning that dumb game.

That was the only time I ever created an alt. And I have always felt dirty for doing that.

Yeah I probably won't bother until we get to the Darren Daulton V Joe Rudi stage

 

[navamind]

The Kid has hardly been talked about on this poll and all of a sudden he has a narrow lead? To compare OPS+ buckets with Speaker:

190+ - Speaker (1); Griffey (0)
180-189 - Speaker (3); Griffey (0)
170-179 - Speaker (5); Griffey (2)
160-169 - Speaker (1); Griffey (1)
150-159 - Speaker (3); Griffey (3)
140-149 - Speaker (3); Griffey (3)
130-139 - Speaker (0); Griffey (3)
Career OPS+ - Speaker (158); Griffey (136)
WAR7 - Speaker (62.7); Griffey (54)
Career WAR - Speaker (134.9); Griffey (83.8)
Seasons - Speaker (22); Griffey (22)

Speaker over Griffey in just about every way. We risk making a bigger farce on this vote than on the previous spot on the poll. Come on voters, don't be so lazy. I get that this is The Kid but his career didn't quite turn out the way we thought it would at the beginning.

Speaker's pretty underrated. I think he's at least a top 15 player of all-time, possibly top 10 and I feel like he gets overlooked a lot