Top 10 poll #10: #10 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

I’m starting to think of Schmidt around this level. Bench, too. Greatest 3B and greatest catcher of all-time. I’ve seen a bunch of top 10 lists that contain both of them.

Positional scarcity.

It’s a thing.

 

[Clayton]

Positional scarcity.

It’s a thing.

Not for me. I do see value in what they do, though.

I think I talked myself earlier into Bench over Henderson

 

[calsnowskier]

Not for me. I do see value in what they do, though.

I think I talked myself earlier into Bench over Henderson

If you putting a team together, i would focus on filling the catcher spot with an elite player from a pool of 5 elite players before I worry about getting an elite 1B from a pool of 58 elite 1B.

Exaggerated to make my point, of course.

 

[Clayton]

If you putting a team together, i would focus on filling the catcher spot with an elite player from a pool of 5 elite players before I worry about getting an elite 1B from a pool of 58 elite 1B.

Exaggerated to make my point, of course.

Thats not the assignment, though. I'm looking at who was the best player

 

[calsnowskier]

Thats not the assignment, though. I'm looking at who was the best player

And the position he plays is part of that equation.

Trent Williams is one of the greatest LT to ever play football. But LT is not nearly as hard to fill as QB, so he isn’t going to be listed as one of the elite elite of the elite of football.

 

[Clayton]

Trent Williams is one of the greatest LT to ever play football. But LT is not nearly as hard to fill as QB, so he isn’t going to be listed as one of the elite elite of the elite of football.

Probably an equivalent number of elite LTs and QBs. QBs have much more of an impact that any individual baseball player.

 

[LHG]

If you putting a team together, i would focus on filling the catcher spot with an elite player from a pool of 5 elite players before I worry about getting an elite 1B from a pool of 58 elite 1B.

Exaggerated to make my point, of course.

But I thought that this was simply listing the greatest players in MLB by greatness, not by building a team. To me, picking the best means not caring, in and of itself, what position that they played. I'm not going to rank Schmidt above a bunch of other players just because no one who played 3rd base is already on the list. If the other guys (Musial, Speaker, Young, Hornsby, etc) had better careers then I'll rank them higher. If this was some kind of all time fantasy draft where you pick teams, then I'd value Schmidt a lot higher.

 

[LHG]

And the position he plays is part of that equation.

Trent Williams is one of the greatest LT to ever play football. But LT is not nearly as hard to fill as QB, so he isn’t going to be listed as one of the elite elite of the elite of football.

But why? Some positions in baseball have had a lot less star power over the past 150 years than others. That shouldn't make the guy at the top of that position get ranked higher than if he played another position (such as 1st base). To me, I just don't see how playing a rare position makes one greater than another player. Don't get me wrong, Schmidt was really good, but I'd want to wait another 10 picks before considering him.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But why? Some positions in baseball have had a lot less star power over the past 150 years than others. That shouldn't make the guy at the top of that position get ranked higher than if he played another position (such as 1st base). To me, I just don't see how playing a rare position makes one greater than another player. Don't get me wrong, Schmidt was really good, but I'd want to wait another 10 picks before considering him.

Hey. Didn’t Willie mays get voted 2 because of position and defense played. If we relied only on offense then we would have a different list.

Maybe position scarcity is the wrong term. But a good defensive player at a more premium position. I’d consider 3b the 4th most premium after catcher, CF, and SS.

 

[LHG]

Hey. Didn’t Willie mays get voted 2 because of position and defense played. If we relied only on offense then we would have a different list.

Maybe position scarcity is the wrong term. But a good defensive player at a more premium position. I’d consider 3b the 4th most premium after catcher, CF, and SS.

Yes, defensive reputation does get considered for ranking, not position scarcity. There is a difference and cal is talking about position scarcity as a reason to consider Schmidt at this point in the rankings.

 

[msgkings322]

My baseball fanatic dad just sold me on Bench being the #2 catcher all time. We need to rank Yogi Berra higher. better numbers, 3 time mvp, a million rings, all time great clutch hitter

 

[LHG]

My baseball fanatic dad just sold me on Bench being the #2 catcher all time. We need to rank Yogi Berra higher. better numbers, 3 time mvp, a million rings, all time great clutch hitter

Really? Berra has a career WAR of 59.5 (Bench - 75.1). Berra has a WAR7 of 38 (Bench - 47.2). Berra has an OPS+ of 125 (Bench - 126).

In 2120 games, Berra slashed .285/.348/.482 (BA just for @MilkSpiller22 ).
In 2158 games, Bench slashed .267/.342/.476.

Berra hit 321 doubles. Bench hit 381 doubles.

Berra hit 49 triples. Bench hit 24 triples.

Berra hit 358 home runs. Bench hit 389 home runs.

Berra went 30 for 56 in stolen base attempts (53.57%). Bench went 68 for 111 in stolen base attempts (61.26%).

Berra threw out 48.6% of runners attempting to steal a base. Bench threw out 43.5% of runners attempting to steal a ase.

Berra got MVP 3 times and was top 5 in 4 other occasions.

Bench got MVP 2 times and was top 5 in 2 other occasions.

Bench also won ROY.

I think Berra got the benefit of the NY press to help him get more MVP votes. I'd take Bench over Berra.

Edit: Side note - I had no idea that Berra played 4 games with the Mets in 1965 to end his career. I thought he was a only Yankee.

 

[msgkings322]

Really? Berra has a career WAR of 59.5 (Bench - 75.1). Berra has a WAR7 of 38 (Bench - 47.2). Berra has an OPS+ of 125 (Bench - 126).

In 2120 games, Berra slashed .285/.348/.482 (BA just for @MilkSpiller22 ).
In 2158 games, Bench slashed .267/.342/.476.

Berra hit 321 doubles. Bench hit 381 doubles.

Berra hit 49 triples. Bench hit 24 triples.

Berra hit 358 home runs. Bench hit 389 home runs.

Berra went 30 for 56 in stolen base attempts (53.57%). Bench went 68 for 111 in stolen base attempts (61.26%).

Berra threw out 48.6% of runners attempting to steal a base. Bench threw out 43.5% of runners attempting to steal a ase.

Berra got MVP 3 times and was top 5 in 4 other occasions.

Bench got MVP 2 times and was top 5 in 2 other occasions.

Bench also won ROY.

I think Berra got the benefit of the NY press to help him get more MVP votes. I'd take Bench over Berra.

Edit: Side note - I had no idea that Berra played 4 games with the Mets in 1965 to end his career. I thought he was a only Yankee.

Well hell now I gotta go back and tell Dad he’s wrong

 

[calsnowskier]

But I thought that this was simply listing the greatest players in MLB by greatness, not by building a team. To me, picking the best means not caring, in and of itself, what position that they played. I'm not going to rank Schmidt above a bunch of other players just because no one who played 3rd base is already on the list. If the other guys (Musial, Speaker, Young, Hornsby, etc) had better careers then I'll rank them higher. If this was some kind of all time fantasy draft where you pick teams, then I'd value Schmidt a lot higher.

Isn’t playing defense part of playing baseball? One of the reasons Thomas isn’t SERIOUSLY talked about yet is because he was a DH. Don’t tell me that doesn’t factor in. If Bench was primarily a 1B, we would hardly remember his name. If Ozzie was a LF, his flips would have been an oddity, but he wouldn’t be a HOFer.

 

[calsnowskier]

Well hell now I gotta go back and tell Dad he’s wrong

Mazel tov on your Bar Mitzvah.

 

[chappee11]

Wanted to post these top 10 lists from 2 of the top guys on MLB Network. I guess Bonds was omitted solely because of PED’s??? Weird stuff…


Add: These were just posted on 1/12/25…

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Wanted to post these top 10 lists from 2 of the top guys on MLB Network. I guess Bonds was omitted solely because of PED’s??? Weird stuff…

View attachment 386759
Add: These were just posted on 1/12/25…

Both those top 10 lists sound like people just naming 10 players.

I don’t see any rhyme or reason in either list.

 

[msgkings322]

Really? Berra has a career WAR of 59.5 (Bench - 75.1). Berra has a WAR7 of 38 (Bench - 47.2). Berra has an OPS+ of 125 (Bench - 126).

In 2120 games, Berra slashed .285/.348/.482 (BA just for @MilkSpiller22 ).
In 2158 games, Bench slashed .267/.342/.476.

Berra hit 321 doubles. Bench hit 381 doubles.

Berra hit 49 triples. Bench hit 24 triples.

Berra hit 358 home runs. Bench hit 389 home runs.

Berra went 30 for 56 in stolen base attempts (53.57%). Bench went 68 for 111 in stolen base attempts (61.26%).

Berra threw out 48.6% of runners attempting to steal a base. Bench threw out 43.5% of runners attempting to steal a ase.

Berra got MVP 3 times and was top 5 in 4 other occasions.

Bench got MVP 2 times and was top 5 in 2 other occasions.

Bench also won ROY.

I think Berra got the benefit of the NY press to help him get more MVP votes. I'd take Bench over Berra.

Edit: Side note - I had no idea that Berra played 4 games with the Mets in 1965 to end his career. I thought he was a only Yankee.

To be honest they are really interchangeable each with something more than the other. Either one is worthy of GOAT catcher

 

[msgkings322]

Dad rebutted Berra had very few strikeouts, Bench had 3x as many

They are really 1a and 1b. Bench 1a to me.

 

[broncosmitty]

Wanted to post these top 10 lists from 2 of the top guys on MLB Network. I guess Bonds was omitted solely because of PED’s??? Weird stuff…

View attachment 386759
Add: These were just posted on 1/12/25…

Brian Kenny may be least favorite baseball talking head.