POLL Top 10 poll #12: #12 player in history - Runoff

[LHG]

It looks like he is going 12-15. In terms of Yankees, I have DiMaggio ahead of him and I'm a bit surprised at his lack of traction.

He has been mentioned but yes, I am a bit surprised as well but I think it is too soon for DiMaggio as well. There have been quite a few names that have been mentioned in these polls that I'd vote higher than Henderson. Among them are:
Cy Young
Tris Speaker
Honus Wagner
Roger Clemens
Mike Trout
Lefty Grove
Christy Matthewson
Mike Schmidt
Eddie Collins
Alex Rodriguez
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Jimmie Foxx
Joe DiMaggio
Tom Seaver
Albert Pujols
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Greg Maddux

 

[calsnowskier]

This one is insanely close.

I suspect the Clemens crowd is probably its own crowd, and won’t pick up much support from the eliminated players here. So that, imho, means that this likely between Henderson, Schmidt and Wagner.

Wagner has the numbers, pretty much without contention. But he played in an era that is already pretty well represented in this poll.

Schmidt is the clear bopper of the 3, and he played in a somewhat “dead ball” era of the 70s and 80s. He is the hands down best all time player at his position.

Henderson is the undisputed king of speed and his kingdom is the basepaths. His bat is very good (HOF on its own), but it doesn’t compare to the other two. Comparatively, his D is a negative in this debate.

 

[Clayton]

He has been mentioned but yes, I am a bit surprised as well but I think it is too soon for DiMaggio as well. There have been quite a few names that have been mentioned in these polls that I'd vote higher than Henderson. Among them are:
Cy Young
Tris Speaker
Honus Wagner
Roger Clemens
Mike Trout
Lefty Grove
Christy Matthewson
Mike Schmidt
Eddie Collins
Alex Rodriguez
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Jimmie Foxx
Joe DiMaggio
Tom Seaver
Albert Pujols
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Greg Maddux

I wont agree with the entire list but certainly many of them. I guess I have Honus Wagner's Biography. I could read that maybe get some better insight on where I think he stacks up.

Schmidt in particular is a better defensive player than most on the list with a comparable offensive profile. Speaker has a top 15 profile imo.

 

[steveringo]

He has been mentioned but yes, I am a bit surprised as well but I think it is too soon for DiMaggio as well. There have been quite a few names that have been mentioned in these polls that I'd vote higher than Henderson. Among them are:
Cy Young
Tris Speaker
Honus Wagner
Roger Clemens
Mike Trout
Lefty Grove
Christy Matthewson
Mike Schmidt
Eddie Collins
Alex Rodriguez
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Jimmie Foxx
Joe DiMaggio
Tom Seaver
Albert Pujols
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Greg Maddux

100%.

I am stiff baffled that Rickey is even mentioned yet. Great, great player, but there are many ahead of him...

 

[steveringo]

I would wonder what Randy Johnsons stats would be if he took steroids. That would be scary.

Who says he didn’t? Even skinny people were juicing back then...

 

[chappee11]

Cal Ripken > Honus

Clemens winning this is just gross.

Totally agree. Clemens doesn’t deserve to be this high. Ironically, I don’t think Rickey Henderson deserves to be this high, either.

 

[chappee11]

100%.

I am stiff baffled that Rickey is even mentioned yet. Great, great player, but there are many ahead of him...

This poll is essentially saying that Rickey is the second best position player most of us have ever seen(I’m not sure if anyone on here is old enough to remember watching Aaron or Mays). It just doesn’t sound right. I’d rather have Trout, ARod, Griffey, Pujols, Thomas(?), Schmidt & probably a few others if I really thought more about it.

Rickey only had 3 top-5 MVP finishes(winning once) & only 6 times did he finish in the top
10. Compare that to a guy like Frank Robinson(who hasn’t even been mentioned here) who had 6 top-5 MVP finishes(winning 2) & 10 top-10 finishes. Something just seems amiss.

 

[msgkings322]

This poll is essentially saying that Rickey is the second best position player most of us have ever seen(I’m not sure if anyone on here is old enough to remember watching Aaron or Mays). It just doesn’t sound right. I’d rather have Trout, ARod, Griffey, Pujols, Thomas(?), Schmidt & probably a few others if I really thought more about it.

Rickey only had 3 top-5 MVP finishes(winning once) & only 6 times did he finish in the top
10. Compare that to a guy like Frank Robinson(who hasn’t even been mentioned here) who had 6 top-5 MVP finishes(winning 2) & 10 top-10 finishes. Something just seems amiss.

I love Rickey and will start voting for him in the late teens, which still maybe overvalues him a little. He's got intangibles lol

Also his recent passing is probably a factor.

Again, this is the fun part. We're all going to value different things and now we are past the top of the top god level names it will be more arguing.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

100%.

I am stiff baffled that Rickey is even mentioned yet. Great, great player, but there are many ahead of him...

I think there is a disconnect. People mentioning him does not mean people will vote for him. I have mentioned him because I think his base running is not measured well through ops+ and war. I honestly don’t know where to put him. But I do value him higher than most.
But I am also pro modern baseball. So I don’t value some of the oldies like others. Even if their war/ops+ is better.

I will agree though that I am surprised he is getting so many votes in this round. Wasn’t surprised that he gets nominated.

 

[calsnowskier]

This poll is essentially saying that Rickey is the second best position player most of us have ever seen(I’m not sure if anyone on here is old enough to remember watching Aaron or Mays). It just doesn’t sound right. I’d rather have Trout, ARod, Griffey, Pujols, Thomas(?), Schmidt & probably a few others if I really thought more about it.

Rickey only had 3 top-5 MVP finishes(winning once) & only 6 times did he finish in the top
10. Compare that to a guy like Frank Robinson(who hasn’t even been mentioned here) who had 6 top-5 MVP finishes(winning 2) & 10 top-10 finishes. Something just seems amiss.

I feel confidant in saying he maybe the 2nd best player I have seen play. Not a hill I would die on, and I may be wrong, it wouldn’t be a ridiculous statement.

 

[chappee11]

I feel confidant in saying he maybe the 2nd best player I have seen play. Not a hill I would die on, and I may be wrong, it wouldn’t be a ridiculous statement.

It’s nice to argue about guys that we actually saw play. And I love Rickey, but he just seems to fit more with the Ripken compiler wing of the conversation. The numbers are all there, for sure, but 6 top-10 MVP finishes in his 25 year career makes me feel as though he didn’t stand out enough against his peers from year-to-year. I’d be much more comfortable with him in the 20’s somewhere. We’ll see how it plays out.

 

[LHG]

It’s nice to argue about guys that we actually saw play. And I love Rickey, but he just seems to fit more with the Ripken compiler wing of the conversation. The numbers are all there, for sure, but 6 top-10 MVP finishes in his 25 year career makes me feel as though he didn’t stand out enough against his peers from year-to-year. I’d be much more comfortable with him in the 20’s somewhere. We’ll see how it plays out.

Yeah, it’s weird that he isn’t getting dinged as a compiler when he probably had the longest career of just about any players seriously discussed in these polls. If anything, his compiling career is lovingly seen as playing for the love of the game.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah, it’s weird that he isn’t getting dinged as a compiler when he probably had the longest career of just about any players seriously discussed in these polls. If anything, his compiling career is lovingly seen as playing for the love of the game.

Rickey is the very reason why I became a big lover of WAR7 and buckets over career numbers.

 

[LHG]

Rickey is the very reason why I became a big lover of WAR7 and buckets over career numbers.

Which doesn't make sense to me as his WAR7 doesn't stack up to quite a few hitters still on the boards. Neither does his buckets.

 

[broncosmitty]

I wont agree with the entire list but certainly many of them. I guess I have Honus Wagner's Biography. I could read that maybe get some better insight on where I think he stacks up.

Schmidt in particular is a better defensive player than most on the list with a comparable offensive profile. Speaker has a top 15 profile imo.

I think Wagner played something like 8 years of minor league ball before he made it to the National League.

Not that it matters, but for a guy with huge career numbers, it’s kinda wild.

Glad to see he’s making a late push.

 

[broncosmitty]

Which doesn't make sense to me as his WAR7 doesn't stack up to quite a few hitters still on the boards. Neither does his buckets.

Other than steals, he’s the compiler of compilers.

Love Rickey, but loving a player doesn’t have to make him more than he was on this list.

 

[calsnowskier]

Which doesn't make sense to me as his WAR7 doesn't stack up to quite a few hitters still on the boards. Neither does his buckets.

WAR7 and buckets aren’t everything. Rickey is a unicorn.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think Wagner played something like 8 years of minor league ball before he made it to the National League.

Not that it matters, but for a guy with huge career numbers, it’s kinda wild.

Glad to see he’s making a late push.

That is a crazy late push. Holy shit.

 

[calsnowskier]

WAR7 and buckets aren’t everything. Rickey is a unicorn.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

And again, I am not stumping Rickey for this spot. He is at best #3 here, imho.

I just don’t think his inclusion in the discussion here is so stupid.

But if I am putting together a dream team, I still think he has a decent shot at being my starting LF. We don’t need a lineup full of boppers. Rickey at the top of the lineup is the way to go, I think.

 

[broncosmitty]

That is a crazy late push. Holy shit.

Did not see it coming.