POLL Top 10 poll #13: #13 player in history - Runoff

[DHoey]

1987 season
8-16, 34 starts, 2.76 ERA, 1.139 WHIP 270k's

Talk about a Felix Hernandez season.

Dude should probably have 350+ wins.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't know if I'd go that far. I think Henderson is a tier above Ryan.

Didn’t say Nolan will be ranked similarly to Henderson.

Just said they are a lot alike. Their longevity almost hurts their legend in a weird way.

 

[calsnowskier]

Off the top of my head, I think these pitchers are all better than Ryan…

Walter
Randy
Clemens
Maddux
Young
Pedro (??)
Seaver
Mathewson
Gibson
Max
Verlander (??)
Kershaw (??)
Paige
Carlton (??)

I would have to research further, but guys like Grove, Alexander, Dean, Koufax (complete polar opposite of Ryan), CC, Glavine, etc might be better as well.

 

[calsnowskier]

1987 season
8-16, 34 starts, 2.76 ERA, 1.139 WHIP 270k's

Talk about a Felix Hernandez season.

Dude should probably have 350+ wins.

“Should” = “doesn’t”

 

[Clayton]

..

Have you given up on Clemens? If you have, you might be right that he isnt going to have the support for awhile

 

[calsnowskier]

Have you given up on Clemens? If you have, you might be right that he isnt going to have the support for awhile

Me?

Absolutely not. He 100% deserves this spot. But I don’t vote until the end. If someone else is able to get 50+1 before I vote, I won’t vote (unless I am voting in support of the 50+1 player).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Have you given up on Clemens? If you have, you might be right that he isnt going to have the support for awhile

I did give up on Clemens. At least until another pitcher is voted for.

 

[calsnowskier]

1987 season
8-16, 34 starts, 2.76 ERA, 1.139 WHIP 270k's

Talk about a Felix Hernandez season.

Dude should probably have 350+ wins.

Btw, thanks for stumping Ryan (even if only in jest). Looking at guys we all have preconceived opinions of and challenging those notions is exactly the point of these debates.

 

[Clayton]

Ryan v Kershaw would be an interesting conversation if we're talking about the importance of winning games.

 

[steveringo]

And I don't think Nolan Ryan is the most overrated pitcher ever.

Not even close. He is actually a lot like Rickey Henderson. People look at his longevity and want to cherry pick the not great seasons. Despite still putting up their specialty stat( strike outs for nolan)

Im looking at ESPNs list and they have him as the 13th pitcher. I certainly wouldn't say he is overrated by list makers atm

I don’t think Ryan belongs in the upper upper (not a typo) echelon of pitchers, but his iron-man status in the era that he played I think might actually make him UNDERRATED. The disrespect he has received (by myself included) since he retired may have actually over-corrected his legacy negatively.

He had a crap W-L record. But everyone screams that W-L is overrated (if not completely worthless), but then turns around and looks at Ryan’s W-L and says he was overrated.

I think most people will put him in their top 20 all time pitchers. Probably half will put him in their top ten.

He is certainly a unicorn. His longevity has helped him and hurt him...

I do think there are still people that rank him higher than he probably should be....


In terms of overall overrated, who is more?

 

[calsnowskier]

I did give up on Clemens. At least until another pitcher is voted for.

I don’t like this mindset. Imho, you should be looking at these 4 players and judging them in a vacuum. Voting for pitcher “because it is time” or avoiding a specific player because a different specific player is not getting love is bastardizing the results.

Between Henderson, Schmidt, Clemens and Johnson, who had the best career? That should be the only thing we consider.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think most people will put him in their top 20 all time pitchers. Probably half will put him in their top ten.

He is certainly a unicorn. His longevity has helped him and hurt him...

I do think there are still people that rank him higher than he probably should be....


In terms of overall overrated, who is more?

Morris? Blyleven?

 

[steveringo]

I wonder what his stats would be if he wasn't on thd Advil...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don’t like this mindset. Imho, you should be looking at these 4 players and judging them in a vacuum. Voting for pitcher “because it is time” or avoiding a specific player because a different specific player is not getting love is bastardizing the results.

Between Henderson, Schmidt, Clemens and Johnson, who had the best career? That should be the only thing we consider.

i have said this throughout... it was my problem with bonds too...

The haters are going to prevent him from winning, the FOR voters are going to prevent other players to reach the runoff... so, either i have to be ok with players i dont think should be voted for ( Wagner and Musial), or try my darndest to get a player i like to be picked...

Clemens will not be chosen as the #2 pitcher... if we want this to be an all Offensive list, then we should keep Clemens up there...

 

[calsnowskier]

I wonder what his stats would be if he wasn't on thd Advil...

 

[calsnowskier]

i have said this throughout... it was my problem with bonds too...

The haters are going to prevent him from winning, the FOR voters are going to prevent other players to reach the runoff... so, either i have to be ok with players i dont think should be voted for ( Wagner and Musial), or try my darndest to get a player i like to be picked...

Clemens will not be chosen as the #2 pitcher... if we want this to be an all Offensive list, then we should keep Clemens up there...

But Clemens is on the list at this level. If you believe he deserves this spot, vote him. Don’t boycott him because you don’t think he can win. That becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

[DHoey]

I think most people will put him in their top 20 all time pitchers. Probably half will put him in their top ten.

He is certainly a unicorn. His longevity has helped him and hurt him...

I do think there are still people that rank him higher than he probably should be....


In terms of overall overrated, who is more?

Tom Glavine, afore mentioned CC Sabathia, Andy Pettite

 

[calsnowskier]

Tom Glavine, afore mentioned CC Sabathia, Andy Pettite

Pettitte is on my “removed from the board entirely” list…

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But Clemens is on the list at this level. If you believe he deserves this spot, vote him. Don’t boycott him because you don’t think he can win. That becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

if one vote is going to matter, i would happily change it to him.... but if all Clemens voters voted for Johnson here instead, Johnson would beat Schmidt pretty easily in the 2nd runoff... but there is no way Clemens will beat Schmidt in the second runoff

 

[chappee11]

Pettitte is on my “removed from the board entirely” list…

Because of PEDs, or because he doesn’t belong?