POLL Top 10 poll #13: #13 player in history - Runoff

[MilkSpiller22]

I think I rate Schmidt at #2 behind Clemens in this poll, so I agree with your conclusion. I just think it is unfair to look at Rickey as only his numbers. He is so much more than his numbers.

thats why i was looking at RBIs and Runs... i know those stats are almost taboo to statheads... which i understand why...

BUT again, scoring runs is a leaadoff's main purpose... you kind of have to acknowledge how good the player was at doing it....

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Schmidt had 7 seasons with 100+ Runs. Henderson had 0 seasons with 100+ RBI.

Not sure if that matters...

didnt matter for what i was doing... comparing players in their actual purpose...

 

[steveringo]

If it was…

Ryan is well know as the most overrated pitcher in history... I'm hoping he was just being very funny for bringing him up here...

 

[steveringo]

didnt matter for what i was doing... comparing players in their actual purpose...

Understood. They both got their jobs done.... Perhaps Rickey did that more? But did Schmidt get other jobs done, too?

And, I'm not a Rickey hater, I just think he is getting votes a little early... But also, because of these discussions, he's climbing my internal list (which has been constantly changing)...

 

[calsnowskier]

Schmidt had 7 seasons with 100+ Runs. Henderson had 0 seasons with 100+ RBI.

Not sure if that matters...

But neither ever pitched a single complete game. Further proof that Clemens deserves this spot.

 

[steveringo]

But neither ever pitched a single complete game. Further proof that Clemens deserves this spot.

Greg Maddux had 5 HR & 84 RBI...

 

[calsnowskier]

thats why i was looking at RBIs and Runs... i know those stats are almost taboo to statheads... which i understand why...

BUT again, scoring runs is a leaadoff's main purpose... you kind of have to acknowledge how good the player was at doing it....

I don’t mind them as “looking back summaries” of players. Looking at what someone “could do” or what they are “capable of doing” are predictive metrics. But RBI, Runs, Wins, Saves etc are accomplishment metrics. At the end of the day, runs scored, outs recorded, games won, etc are the only things that matter. Those are resume builders.

Accolades are VERY flawed. Much like the results of these polls, there are inconsistencies. But the accolades offer a glimpse at how the player was viewed by the people who watched them play, in comparison to their immediate contemporaries.

 

[calsnowskier]

Understood. They both got their jobs done.... Perhaps Rickey did that more? But did Schmidt get other jobs done, too?

And, I'm not a Rickey hater, I just think he is getting votes a little early... But also, because of these discussions, he's climbing my internal list (which has been constantly changing)...

That is the exact purpose of these threads, imho.

I loved the positional brackets that Omar ran about 10 years ago. I learned sooo much during those debates (I never respected Fisk until those debates, for example)

 

[calsnowskier]

Greg Maddux had 5 HR & 84 RBI...

Clearly he belongs somewhere in the top 25,000.

Where he belongs is a bit of a debate, however.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Understood. They both got their jobs done.... Perhaps Rickey did that more? But did Schmidt get other jobs done, too?

And, I'm not a Rickey hater, I just think he is getting votes a little early... But also, because of these discussions, he's climbing my internal list (which has been constantly changing)...

I said I was still voting schmidt. But most of that is because of defense. As again I think they are close offensively.

 

[DHoey]

Ryan is well know as the most overrated pitcher in history... I'm hoping he was just being very funny for bringing him up here...

Purely emotional reaction. I think Clemens is one of the biggest assholes to play in MLB. He belongs between A-Rod and Wander Franco

 

[Clayton]

I said I was still voting schmidt. But most of that is because of defense. As again I think they are close offensively.

I think there are a bunch of people in the same ballpark as Schmidt offensively but I'd agree that the defense is what puts him in the conversation this high.

 

[DHoey]

And I don't think Nolan Ryan is the most overrated pitcher ever.

 

[DHoey]

Nolan Ryan had 198 career non-win quality starts. He was 0-107 with a 2.27 ERA, 1.166 WHIP, & 9.77 K/9 in those starts.​

Found this stat while researching, thought it was pretty wild.

 

[calsnowskier]

Nolan Ryan had 198 career non-win quality starts. He was 0-107 with a 2.27 ERA, 1.166 WHIP, & 9.77 K/9 in those starts.​

Found this stat while researching, thought it was pretty wild.

Cherry picked situations, granted, but that stat is crazy.

 

[Clayton]

And I don't think Nolan Ryan is the most overrated pitcher ever.

Im looking at ESPNs list and they have him as the 13th pitcher. I certainly wouldn't say he is overrated by list makers atm

 

[MilkSpiller22]

And I don't think Nolan Ryan is the most overrated pitcher ever.

Not even close. He is actually a lot like Rickey Henderson. People look at his longevity and want to cherry pick the not great seasons. Despite still putting up their specialty stat( strike outs for nolan)

 

[calsnowskier]

Cherry picked situations, granted, but that stat is crazy.

Applying the PQS to him would be interesting, I think.

 

[Clayton]

Not even close. He is actually a lot like Rickey Henderson. People look at his longevity and want to cherry pick the not great seasons. Despite still putting up their specialty stat( strike outs for nolan)

I don't know if I'd go that far. I think Henderson is a tier above Ryan.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don’t think Ryan belongs in the upper upper (not a typo) echelon of pitchers, but his iron-man status in the era that he played I think might actually make him UNDERRATED. The disrespect he has received (by myself included) since he retired may have actually over-corrected his legacy negatively.

He had a crap W-L record. But everyone screams that W-L is overrated (if not completely worthless), but then turns around and looks at Ryan’s W-L and says he was overrated.