Toni Kukoc on the LeBron/Curry Debate

[trojanfan12]

Anyone know of a PF/SF 6'10 type guy in the NBA today that could handle the ball, was a good passer, and could score from anywhere on the court?

Kevin Durant.

What do I win?

 

[tlance]

Kevin Durant.

What do I win?

You guys are comparing Kukoc to guys who were all NBA first teamers at one point or another. I believe that is exactly SJ's point. Kukoc is plenty qualified to offer commentary on today's NBA players.

If he isn't, then certainly nobody here is!

Also, LeBron's passing is not the problem. Irving is the ball stopper there. LeBron is very willing to share are rarely takes bad shots. It is nearly impossible to have great ball movement unless all 5 players buy in. The difference between Cleveland and the West powers is the ball movement.

 

[Jakology]

You guys are comparing Kukoc to guys who were all NBA first teamers at one point or another. I believe that is exactly SJ's point. Kukoc is plenty qualified to offer commentary on today's NBA players.

If he isn't, then certainly nobody here is!

Also, LeBron's passing is not the problem. Irving is the ball stopper there. LeBron is very willing to share are rarely takes bad shots. It is nearly impossible to have great ball movement unless all 5 players buy in. The difference between Cleveland and the West powers is the ball movement.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this. It's so frustrating watching such a talented team struggle so much in the half-court offense.

 

[trojanfan12]

You guys are comparing Kukoc to guys who were all NBA first teamers at one point or another. I believe that is exactly SJ's point. Kukoc is plenty qualified to offer commentary on today's NBA players.

If he isn't, then certainly nobody here is!

Also, LeBron's passing is not the problem. Irving is the ball stopper there. LeBron is very willing to share are rarely takes bad shots. It is nearly impossible to have great ball movement unless all 5 players buy in. The difference between Cleveland and the West powers is the ball movement.

I just answered the question he asked. I really don't care if Kukoc is qualified to comment on today's NBA players or not.

 

[Wamu]

Kevin Durant.

What do I win?

A Prius...enjoy!

 

[tlance]

I just answered the question he asked. I really don't care if Kukoc is qualified to comment on today's NBA players or not.

Just quoted yours because it was last. Some people were saying that.

Plenty of all time greats have been pretty terrible at evaluating talent. LeBron is just another example of a superstar player who makes a poor GM. i don't think Magic Johnson's opinion should carry any more weight than Kukoc just because he was a better player.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

I do agree with some of his points.

Curry's year and a half of elite play have got some people confused in the grand scheme of things. You need to realize that greats before him have had 8,9,10+ elite level seasons, and until he does it himself he shouldn't be deemed a better player on all-time rankings for example than someone like Isaiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, etc…

It's a bit ridiculous. Is he playing the best in the NBA right now? No doubt, but let's see it for another 5-6 years before we enter him into that discussion.

 

[trojanfan12]

Just quoted yours because it was last. Some people were saying that.

Plenty of all time greats have been pretty terrible at evaluating talent. LeBron is just another example of a superstar player who makes a poor GM. i don't think Magic Johnson's opinion should carry any more weight than Kukoc just because he was a better player.

Couldn't agree more. In fact, the non-superstar players are often better judges of talent and better coaches/GM's because of the fact that they had work a lot harder to get where they are. The more talented guys could just rely on their talent much of the time.

I remember Magic's short stint as coach for the Lakers. He said he knew that coaching wasn't for him because he couldn't understand why his players couldn't see what he did on the court and it drove him nuts.

 

[trojanfan12]

I do agree with some of his points.

Curry's year and a half of elite play have got some people confused in the grand scheme of things. You need to realize that greats before him have had 8,9,10+ elite level seasons, and until he does it himself he shouldn't be deemed a better player on all-time rankings for example than someone like Isaiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, etc…

It's a bit ridiculous. Is he playing the best in the NBA right now? No doubt, but let's see it for another 5-6 years before we enter him into that discussion.

Imo, it's the 24/7/365 coverage and access. We see and hear so much more these days and there is so much more info available that it makes it seem like they've accomplished more than they actually have.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Imo, it's the 24/7/365 coverage and access. We see and hear so much more these days and there is so much more info available that it makes it seem like they've accomplished more than they actually have.

Exactly. Especially with twitter and vine seemingly ruling the world right now… I was talking with some buddies and we were wondering how much more hyped guys like AI, Kobe, Nash, etc. would be if they had this type of coverage during their prime with the type of crazy highlight plays they made on a nightly basis.

 

[trojanfan12]

Exactly. Especially with twitter and vine seemingly ruling the world right now… I was talking with some buddies and we were wondering how much more hyped guys like AI, Kobe, Nash, etc. would be if they had this type of coverage during their prime with the type of crazy highlight plays they made on a nightly basis.

When I was younger, I used to wish there were ways to get more info about my teams faster. I used to read 2 or 3 local papers, subscribed to a couple of different sports magazines, etc. just to try and stay as informed as possible.

Now, I kind of miss those days because I end up knowing way more than I really want to whether I like it or not.

 

[ChrisGar15]

You guys are comparing Kukoc to guys who were all NBA first teamers at one point or another. I believe that is exactly SJ's point. Kukoc is plenty qualified to offer commentary on today's NBA players.

If he isn't, then certainly nobody here is!

...

Blastphemy.

I think "TrojanFan", "Jackology" and "WiggyRuss" from Sporthoop are much more qualified to comment on Lebron than Kukoc.

 

[tlance]

I do agree with some of his points.

Curry's year and a half of elite play have got some people confused in the grand scheme of things. You need to realize that greats before him have had 8,9,10+ elite level seasons, and until he does it himself he shouldn't be deemed a better player on all-time rankings for example than someone like Isaiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, etc…

It's a bit ridiculous. Is he playing the best in the NBA right now? No doubt, but let's see it for another 5-6 years before we enter him into that discussion.

Really, I don't think any player should be judged as far as all time great status until their careers are winding down.

If you want to judge Kobe or Duncan now, I am okay with that. It is still far too early to say anything definitive about LeBron or Curry. Since people's perceptions of these players change so drastically over time, all conversations about active players and their all time great status is moot.

In other words, I agree that you can't say Curry is better than Isaiah, but the flip side is that you should not say Isaiah is better than Curry either. The jury is still out.

 

[Hambombs]

Imo, it's the 24/7/365 coverage and access. We see and hear so much more these days and there is so much more info available that it makes it seem like they've accomplished more than they actually have.

It's much more than just 24 and 7

 

[Hambombs]

I do agree with some of his points.

Curry's year and a half of elite play have got some people confused in the grand scheme of things. You need to realize that greats before him have had 8,9,10+ elite level seasons, and until he does it himself he shouldn't be deemed a better player on all-time rankings for example than someone like Isaiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, etc…

It's a bit ridiculous. Is he playing the best in the NBA right now? No doubt, but let's see it for another 5-6 years before we enter him into that discussion.

* 3 and half years

 

[Arizona_Sting]

* 3 and half years

Of being elite? Hell nah. He was very good but never elite until last season/the 2nd half of the year before last.

 

[Robotech]

Really, I don't think any player should be judged as far as all time great status until their careers are winding down.

If you want to judge Kobe or Duncan now, I am okay with that. It is still far too early to say anything definitive about LeBron or Curry. Since people's perceptions of these players change so drastically over time, all conversations about active players and their all time great status is moot.

In other words, I agree that you can't say Curry is better than Isaiah, but the flip side is that you should not say Isaiah is better than Curry either. The jury is still out.

Curry has reached an incredible level of play this season. He's having one of the greatest seasons ever, but there's no question that he's not at Isiah's level when comparing careers and that he's nowhere near LeBron's career. However, one thing is bothering me about Isiah. His per 100 possessions stat seems to show that he wasn't so great. As a young kid in the '80s, I always thought of Isiah as one of the best. Every other player I look up (Bird, Jordan, Magic), their per 100 possessions stat is off the charts, but not Isiah.

 

[HammerDown]

LOL @ Tony Kukoc thinking anyone in this universe gives a rats ass about his opinion.

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL @ Tony Kukoc thinking anyone in this universe gives a rats ass about his opinion.

Hey, ya mean bastard, sj76 and tlance care.

 

[Robotech]

Of being elite? Hell nah. He was very good but never elite until last season/the 2nd half of the year before last.

Or maybe it's because he's been so good this season and last season that his 2012 and 2013 seasons look pedestrian, but he was still really good in those seasons. If he gets Hall of Fame consideration in the future, I don't think that his 2012 and 2013 seasons will be held against him. His Value Over Replacement Player stat in 2012 (5.6) was better than every season of Isiah Thomas' career except for 1984, when Thomas also had a 5.6 stat.