three shanaban hearings today

[Forty_Sixand2]

OK, so yeah, i don't buy Neal was "bracing himself".

 

[pixburgher66]

Darren Dreger just tweeted to expect 1 game for Backstrom. So he gets the same as Neal and Carkner.....alright....

And Adams? I mean, what's most disturbing to me is that the Carkner suspension wasn't much much much closer to the Asham one. They're quite similar actually.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

There are two possible reactions. I've seen (and done) both.

When you jump straight up (or as straight up as your momentum allows) you are more able to "fall off" the contact, which reduces the violence of the collision.

You see the jump and turn reaction a lot from football players, for example, who turn into an unexpected collision.

Actually, I jump to avoid contact with people when I'm walking all the time. If I'm, for example, looking away, and then all of a sudden I look in front of me and I'm on a collision course with someone, I jump up and to the side and spin (much like Neal did, at least from my observation) in order to minimize contact.

Remind me to give you a wide berth if we ever see each other in the grocery store... you don't throw your elbows up, too, do you?

 

[Darkstone42]

There's one more thing to note on the Neal on Couturier check.

He straightens up before he jumps. When you launch, your shoulder goes down first. He continued moving forward because of inertia, so it looks like a launch. But his back is straight and his shoulders are not in hitting position.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

New idea: playoff suspensions should be based on a vote by all of the non playoff GMs.

Each GM suggests a number, and the suspension is the average of those, rounded down to the nearest game.

I doubt Weber gets off if it's out of Shanny and Uncle Gary's hands.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

There's one more thing to note on the Neal on Couturier check.

He straightens up before he jumps. When you launch, your shoulder goes down first. He continued moving forward because of inertia, so it looks like a launch. But his back is straight and his shoulders are not in hitting position.

You should still get suspended for jumping your shoulder into a dude's head, accident or not.

edit: The fact that he blatantly went after Giroux's head moments later should be taken into account here too. This isn't an isolated incident.

 

[Darkstone42]

Remind me to give you a wide berth if we ever see each other in the grocery store... you don't throw your elbows up, too, do you?

My hands either go out or pull in very close to the center of my chest, so I guess it depends on how I react that day.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

There's one more thing to note on the Neal on Couturier check.

He straightens up before he jumps. When you launch, your shoulder goes down first. He continued moving forward because of inertia, so it looks like a launch. But his back is straight and his shoulders are not in hitting position.

He was looking for contact and even if that one was not the one he was looking for, when he saw the chance he did what he could to make it hurt as much as possible....high and in the air....no matter what you want to say

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

There's one more thing to note on the Neal on Couturier check.

He straightens up before he jumps. When you launch, your shoulder goes down first. He continued moving forward because of inertia, so it looks like a launch. But his back is straight and his shoulders are not in hitting position.

Maybe he was just going for more height.

 

[Dacks]

There's one more thing to note on the Neal on Couturier check.

He straightens up before he jumps. When you launch, your shoulder goes down first. He continued moving forward because of inertia, so it looks like a launch. But his back is straight and his shoulders are not in hitting position.

The factors leading me to believe it was accidental:

- Happened just over a turnover
- Both players changed direction right before hit
- If Neal was really trying to destroy Couturier, we would have launched shoulder first, not chest first

Anyway, trying to find a video of accidental collisions, but getting really weird search results.

 

[Darkstone42]

The factors leading me to believe it was accidental:

- Happened just over a turnover
- Both players changed direction right before hit
- If Neal was really trying to destroy Couturier, we would have launched shoulder first, not chest first

Anyway, trying to find a video of accidental collisions, but getting really weird search results.

I think he would have also turned his right shoulder into the hit, since by turning his left shoulder in, he made first contact on Couturier's arm or thereabouts. Turning his right shoulder in would have put the contact square on Couturier's chin.

 

[Dacks]

He was looking for contact and even if that one was not the one he was looking for, when he saw the chance he did what he could to make it hurt as much as possible....high and in the air....no matter what you want to say

Just a few questions:

- Do you accept that Neal only turns towards Couturier once the turnover happens?
- Do you also accept that when players try to deliver a huge hit, they usually try to do it shoulder first?
- Do you agree that Neal changed his body angle away from a shoulder-first check?

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

The factors leading me to believe it was accidental:

- Happened just over a turnover
- Both players changed direction right before hit
- If Neal was really trying to destroy Couturier, we would have launched shoulder first, not chest first

Anyway, trying to find a video of accidental collisions, but getting really weird search results.

Couturier was practically stationary and had turned when Neal was still 10 feet from him. The fact that Neal looked right at him and made no attempt to stop...I don't buy his excuses.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Just a few questions:

- Do you accept that Neal only turns towards Couturier once the turnover happens?
- Do you also accept that when players try to deliver a huge hit, they usually try to do it shoulder first?
- Do you agree that Neal changed his body angle away from a shoulder-first check?

1. Yes, but he had a lot of time.

2. I would assume so.

3. No, I think he set up to crush him when he could have avoided it, or ducked down into it.

 

[Darkstone42]

Couturier was practically stationary and had turned when Neal was still 10 feet from him. The fact that Neal looked right at him and made no attempt to stop...I don't buy his excuses.

The puck was right on the other side of Couturier. Unless you have much better screen resolution than I have, you can't tell if Neal is looking at the puck or Couturier.

And by way better, I mean government spy quality.

 

[Dacks]

Couturier was practically stationary and had turned when Neal was still 10 feet from him. The fact that Neal looked right at him and made no attempt to stop...I don't buy his excuses.

There is evidence that Neal was targeting Couturier intenionally.

There is also evidence that he wasn't.

You guys seem to completely negate all of the latter.

1) Neal only turned towards Couturier once the puck was turned over - if his intent had been to hit him the whole time, why wasn't he going for him while he had the puck in the first place?

2) Neal was in perfect position to deliver a shoulder-hit, generally regarded as the most devastating. Neal has demonstrated before that he knows how to hit. Why then did he turn at the last second?

 

[mattola]

There is evidence that Neal was targeting Couturier intenionally.

There is also evidence that he wasn't.

I just wanted to use that meme

 

[Dacks]

1. Yes, but he had a lot of time.

2. I would assume so.

3. No, I think he set up to crush him when he could have avoided it, or ducked down into it.

Well, my case would be a lot more complete if I could find a video or two of people (preferably hockey players) jump to avoid accidental collisions. But searches only show articles on deer collisions and video games...

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

4706 has some good stuff for you on the other thread....

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I think we are getting bogged down in a weird tangent.

Neal made a hit, with UPWARD MOMENTUM, coming into contact with a guy's head. Accidental? Maybe, arguably, but I don't care, that's a game.

Neal made a very obvious, very blatant attempt to take off Giroux's head. He mostly missed, but it could have been devastating if he had landed that shot. That should be a 2-3 game suspension for the attempt alone. Then factor in that he committed this second offense less than a minute after the first, and it looks like a player out of control and out for blood, tack on another game for that. 4-5 games would be fair, regardless of whether the first hit was "accidental" or not.